That WAS The Democratic and Repubican Party

[IM2]

LOL. Sounds like it is you and IM who can't take the heat so you should get out. You are the ones gaslighting people.

Wrong. The modern Republican party has nothing to do with the Republican party of the past. Your party is not the party for blacks, it is a white nationalist party. That ain't gaslighting, this forum is full of MAGAS who are racists. There is no Republican Party, it is the MAGA party.

 

[IM2]

No, thats what gullible libs do in support of their oppressors.

No, and this gaslighting is getting very old. If I was gullible I'd fal for all this bullshit republicans keep talking about their past.

 

[IM2]

How am I resorting to ad hominem gas lighting?

He doesn't know.

 

[el midgetron]

You’re an idiot. How much do the non-white slave owners owe?

I was postulating what IM2 would say.
Non-white slave owners should owe more. You know, because of systemic racism and stuff.,

 

[Red Front]

I was postulating what IM2 would say.
Non-white slave owners should owe more. You know, because of systemic racism and stuff.,

There were a few black slave owners, but that doesn't justify slavery, much less what Europeans did to Africans and continue to do to Africans even today. Nothing justifies slavery and colonialism, capitalist-imperialism.

 

[el midgetron]

There were a few black slave owners, but that doesn't justify slavery, much less what Europeans did to Africans and continue to do to Africans even today. Nothing justifies slavery.

Gee, that’s some deep morality. You oppose slavery? Wow.

Africans invented the international slave trade centuries before the Trans Atlantic Slave trade.

 

[Red Front]

Gee, that’s some deep morality. You oppose slavery? Wow.

Africans invented the international slave trade centuries before the Trans Atlantic Slave trade.

Africans invented the "international slave trade"? What do you mean by "international slave trade", define that. What evidence do you have that "Africans" invented that? Why even say that? What's your point?

 

[el midgetron]

Africans invented the "international slave trade"? What do you mean by "international slave trade", define that. What evidence do you have that "Africans" invented that? Why even say that? What's your point?

It’s history, Jack.

“Records of slave trading and transportation in the Sahara date back as far as the 3rd millennium BC during the reign of the Egyptian king Sneferu who crossed the fourth cataract of the Nile into what is today modern Sudan to capture slaves and send them north.[10]”

Trans-Saharan slave trade - Wikipedia

Two thousand years before blacks were shipped to the American, they were traded internationally by Africans. There was both the Trans Saharan slave trade and the Indian Ocean slave trade. Both were hundreds of years before the Trans Atlantic slave trade. No one has enslaved more black people than Africans.

 

[el midgetron]

Africans invented the "international slave trade"? What do you mean by "international slave trade", define that. What evidence do you have that "Africans" invented that? Why even say that? What's your point?

The trans Saharan slave trade was far more brutal than the Trans Atlantic slave trade or any plantation in the south. Muslims would castrate male slaves and females were sold as sex slaves.

 

[Red Front]

The trans Saharan slave trade was far more brutal than the Trans Atlantic slave trade or any plantation in the south. Muslims would castrate male slaves and females were sold as sex slaves.

Atrocities committed in one context do not diminish those in another.

1. Historical Context and Scope:
   
   • The trans-Saharan and trans-Atlantic slave trades operated under different historical, geographical, and cultural contexts. The trans-Saharan slave trade dates back to at least the 7th century and was conducted across desert landscapes, linking sub-Saharan Africa to North Africa and the Middle East. The trans-Atlantic slave trade, predominantly between the 16th and 19th centuries, connected Africa, Europe, and the Americas.
   • The scale of the trans-Atlantic slave trade was unprecedented, with an estimated 12 to 15 million Africans forcibly transported to the Americas, compared to millions (but smaller in scale) through the Sahara.
2. Brutality and Practices:
   
   • Castration and the sale of individuals into sexual slavery were, indeed, horrific practices reported in various slave-trading contexts, including but not limited to Islamic or Arab trade routes. However, asserting that these practices were universally applied or that they were more brutal than those experienced by slaves in the trans-Atlantic trade requires careful examination of historical evidence.
   • In the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the brutality also included the Middle Passage, characterized by cramped, inhumane conditions on ships leading to high mortality rates. Enslaved individuals in the Americas faced torture, sexual abuse, and systemic violence designed to dehumanize and control them.
3. Sexual Exploitation:
   
   • It's inaccurate to suggest that sexual exploitation was unique to one trade. In the Americas, enslaved women were frequently subjected to sexual violence and exploitation by their enslavers. This practice was systematic and widespread, serving not only as a tool of physical dominance but also as a means to increase the enslaved population through birth.
4. Ethical Considerations:
   
   • It's crucial to reject any argument that attempts to justify or minimize the horrors of slavery by comparing the brutalities of different slave trades. Such comparisons can inadvertently trivialize the suffering of millions and distract from the fundamental injustice of slavery itself.
   • The focus should remain on acknowledging the human cost, recognizing the resilience and agency of enslaved individuals, and understanding the lasting impact of slavery on societies worldwide.

In summary, while historical evidence suggests varying practices of brutality across different slave trades, the comparison should not serve to justify or mitigate the atrocities committed in either context. Both the trans-Saharan and trans-Atlantic slave trades were characterized by extreme human suffering and exploitation, and it is essential to confront these histories honestly and comprehensively, without resorting to comparisons that may obscure the universal wrongs of slavery.

 

[Independent thinker]

Wrong. The modern Republican party has nothing to do with the Republican party of the past. Your party is not the party for blacks, it is a white nationalist party. That ain't gaslighting, this forum is full of MAGAS who are racists. There is no Republican Party, it is the MAGA party.

And yet you know that many blacks are leaving the Democratic party to the Republican party as they wake up to the fact that democrats have been using them for political gain.

 

[el midgetron]

In summary, while historical evidence suggests varying practices of brutality across different slave trades, the comparison should not serve to justify or mitigate the atrocities committed in either context.

I’m just adding the missing context to your a example. by referring to those atrocities in a “European” context, you are ignoring that slavery was practiced the globe over for all of human history. You also marginalize the historic role of “black slave owners”.

You leftists view slavery through a very narrow historical perspective. It’s a perspective that holds Europeans to a higher standard when it comes to historical injustices. All the misery and brutality you prescribe to Europeans, existed outside Europe before European expansion.

There were a few black slave owners, but that doesn't justify slavery, much less what Europeans did to Africans and continue to do to Africans even today. Nothing justifies slavery and colonialism, capitalist-imperialism.

European colonialism ultimately spread the philosophy of abolition. If there is anything about slavery that is uniquely White-European it’s the tenets of abolition. If it wasn’t for white people, slavery and all its atrocities would still be the status quo today.

 

[Red Front]

I’m just adding the missing context to your a example. by referring to those atrocities in a “European” context, you are ignoring that slavery was practiced the globe over for all of human history. You also marginalize the historic role of “black slave owners”.

You leftists view slavery through a very narrow historical perspective. It’s a perspective that holds Europeans to a higher standard when it comes to historical injustices. All the misery and brutality you prescribe to Europeans, existed outside Europe before European expansion.



European colonialism ultimately spread the philosophy of abolition. If there is anything about slavery that is uniquely White-European it’s the tenets of abolition. If it wasn’t for white people, slavery and all its atrocities would still be the status quo today.

It's important to understand that slavery, while a dark chapter found across many cultures and civilizations throughout history, takes on a particularly sinister note when we discuss the trans-Atlantic slave trade. This era was marked not just by its sheer scale but by how it shaped the foundations of modern economies through a lens of racial superiority, setting it apart in its brutality and impact.

The role of African or 'black slave owners' within this narrative does indeed complicate the story. Yet, spotlighting this fact without proper context can misleadingly suggest a level of moral parity and fails to acknowledge the complex interplay of power, coercion, and survival in the face of Europe's insatiable demand for slaves.

Criticizing European colonialism and its slave trade isn't about holding Europeans to an impossible moral standard but rather recognizing their distinct and enduring influence on today's world. European powers didn't just participate in slavery; they institutionalized it on a global scale, embedding racial inequality and socioeconomic disparities that linger to this day.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jim+Crow

It's also critical to remember that the journey towards abolition was significantly influenced by the enslaved themselves. Their resistance, from rebellions to the formation of maroon communities, alongside the abolition movements in Europe and the Americas, was driven by a blend of moral, economic, and political forces, including significant contributions from non-European cultures.

To credit the end of slavery solely to European efforts not only diminishes the agency and sacrifices of those who suffered under slavery but also simplifies the tangled web of global interactions that characterized the era. Moreover, using the eventual abolition of slavery to justify European colonialism ignores the profound suffering, exploitation, and cultural loss it inflicted, often under the guise of moral or social advancement.

While slavery is a historical constant, the trans-Atlantic slave trade and European colonial efforts introduced an unprecedented scale of exploitation and racial ideology that continues to echo today. The abolition of slavery, influenced by a wide range of global actors, stands as a testament to human resilience and complexity, underscoring the need to fully grasp these histories, celebrate the resistance of those oppressed, and understand the long-lasting effects of these practices.
Who ended Jim Crow? Blacks didn't fight for their civil rights in the 1960s? The KKK came after slavery and they would lynch blacks. Whites burned down a part of Tulsa, in 1921, massacring hundreds of innocent people, in a fit of rancourous racist murderous rage. They were jealous of the blacks who had built a prosperous community:

1921 Tulsa Race Massacre - Tulsa Historical Society & Museum

Following World War I, Tulsa was recognized nationally for its affluent African American community known as the Greenwood District. This thriving business district and surrounding residential area was referred to as “Black Wall Street.”

www.tulsahistory.org

Have you ever heard of redlining?

​

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- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[el midgetron]

The role of African or 'black slave owners' within this narrative does indeed complicate the story. Yet, spotlighting this fact without proper context can misleadingly suggest a level of moral parity and fails to acknowledge the complex interplay of power, coercion, and survival in the face of Europe's insatiable demand for slaves…..

……European powers didn't just participate in slavery; they institutionalized it on a global scale, embedding racial inequality and socioeconomic disparities that linger to this day.

FFS. “They institutionalized it on a global scale”? There were already two previous international slave trades that had nothing to do with evil white people. Europeans did nothing related to slavery that hadn’t already been established.

The Trans Atlantic slave trade was just an extension of the institutionalized slave export business that had existed in Africa (and was run by Africans) for over a thousand years.

To credit the end of slavery solely to European efforts not only diminishes the agency and sacrifices of those who suffered under slavery but also simplifies the tangled web of global interactions that characterized the era.

Fact remains, without white people, slavery would still be globally practiced to this today. The international slave trade originated in Africa and the institution of slavery endured in Africa longer than anywhere else in the world.

What actually “diminishes the agency and sacrifices of those who suffered under slavery” is to ignore the global context of that suffering by ignoring the vast majority of slaves. The vast majority of slaves were enslaved by non-Europeans. The Trans Atlantic slave trade existed for 366 years. The international slave trade existed for over a thousand year before reaching European customers.

 

[Red Front]

FFS. “They institutionalized it on a global scale”? There were already two previous international slave trades that had nothing to do with evil white people. Europeans did nothing related to slavery that hadn’t already been established.

The Trans Atlantic slave trade was just an extension of the institutionalized slave export business that had existed in Africa (and was run by Africans) for over a thousand years.



Fact remains, without white people, slavery would still be globally practiced to this today. The international slave trade originated in Africa and the institution of slavery endured in Africa longer than anywhere else in the world.

What actually “diminishes the agency and sacrifices of those who suffered under slavery” is to ignore the global context of that suffering by ignoring the vast majority of slaves. The vast majority of slaves were enslaved by non-Europeans. The Trans Atlantic slave trade existed for 366 years. The international slave trade existed for over a thousand year before reaching European customers.

The assertion that without European intervention, slavery would still be globally practiced today oversimplifies the historical narrative and overlooks the multifaceted global efforts that contributed to the abolition of slavery. While it's true that various forms of servitude and slave trading existed across different societies throughout history, the European involvement in the transatlantic slave trade marked a significant escalation in its scope, brutality, and institutionalization, which was unparalleled.

First, the transatlantic slave trade, perpetrated primarily by European powers, was distinct in its scale and the racialization of slavery. This form of slavery was systematized in a manner that dehumanized Africans on a racial basis, laying the groundwork for enduring racial inequalities. It's crucial to recognize that the racial underpinnings of the transatlantic slave trade have had long-lasting effects that still permeate societal structures today.

Second, the role of Europeans in the eventual abolition of slavery cannot be discussed without acknowledging the resistance and efforts of the enslaved themselves and abolitionists from various backgrounds. Numerous slave uprisings, such as the Haitian Revolution, were pivotal in challenging the institution of slavery. These movements were driven by the enslaved and their allies, not just European benevolence.

Moreover, attributing the end of slavery solely to European efforts erases the complex history of resistance against oppression and overlooks the fact that abolition was often a strategic economic or political decision, rather than a purely moral one. The abolition of slavery was not a gift bestowed upon the enslaved; it was a hard-fought victory against a system that many European powers had established and profited from extensively.

Furthermore, the narrative that paints European powers as the liberators who ended global slavery disregards the ongoing economic exploitation and neocolonial practices that continue to subjugate former colonies. The legacy of colonialism and the transatlantic slave trade cannot be separated from the current economic disparities and the exploitation of the Global South. The imposition of economic structures and policies that disadvantage these countries is a continuation of colonial dynamics under the guise of globalization and neoliberal capitalism.

Lastly, acknowledging the complex history of slavery and colonialism is not about diminishing the contributions of any group or denying the existence of slavery outside of the transatlantic trade. It's about understanding the unique horrors and lasting impacts of this period, recognizing the resilience and agency of those who fought against their oppression, and addressing the systemic inequalities that persist as a result.

In essence, the discussion of slavery and its abolition must be grounded in a comprehensive understanding of its historical context and the ongoing legacies of colonialism. Oversimplifying this history does a disservice to the nuanced realities of the past and the present.

​

 

[struth]

The white race paid no price for ending slavery because they did not fight to end slavery and slavery never should have existed in the first place. If they were really for the end of slavery, Jim Crow would have never happened. Things dd not stop in the 1960's. I was born in 1961.

In 1992-93, I was involved in a class-action lawsuit against R.L. Polk and Company for sexual harassment and racial discrimination. Due to information volunteered to us by assistants to the manager, Patrick Ivey, we found that Mr. Ivey would instruct his assistants to stop hiring blacks once enough blacks were hired to meet the EEOC requirements. Mr. Ivey would white out parts of documents and put in numbers showing that either he met EEOC requirements or that not enough minorities were applying and send copies of the doctored paperwork to the EEOC.

And here is a confession from a USMB member named Flash in 2020.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

“Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid "affirmative action" hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental “diversity" demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”
The discrimination laws made in the 60's were made to stop didn't stop because there were whites who refused to follow those laws.

Citygroup did a study focusing on U.S. GDP from 2000 until 2020. The study revealed huge losses in GDP due to continuing discrimination against blacks in business revenue, education, housing credit, and income. The study determined that since the year 2000, continuing discriminatory practices in the four areas mentioned in the prior sentence resulted in a loss of 16 trillion dollars in GDP. The breakdown is as follows:

“Closing the Black racial wage gap 20 years ago might have provided an additional $2.7 trillion in income available for consumption and investment.

Improving access to housing credit might have added an additional 770,000 Black homeowners over the last 20 years, with combined sales and expenditures adding another $218 billion to GDP over that time.

Facilitating increased access to higher education (college, graduate, and vocational schools) for Black students might have bolstered lifetime incomes that in aggregate sums to $90 to $113 billion.

Providing fair and equitable lending to Black entrepreneurs might have resulted in the creation of an additional $13 trillion in business revenue over the last 20 years. This could have been used for investments in labor, technology, capital equipment, and structures and 6.1 million jobs might have been created per year.”

Now none of this has anythng to do with how the Repubican Party today got to be the party of racism. Just because you see the word reparations, it shoud not trigger anyone to go off the thread topic.

Why do you think all white people should answer for what the demklan did?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wrong. The modern Republican party has nothing to do with the Republican party of the past. Your party is not the party for blacks, it is a white nationalist party. That ain't gaslighting, this forum is full of MAGAS who are racists. There is no Republican Party, it is the MAGA party.

You know, poor kids can be just as bring and talented as white kids.

Your Master Joe Biden, old white Southern democrat, said so himself.

Is he a Conservative or a democrat?

 

[Red Front]

The narrative that European involvement in slavery was merely a continuation of pre-existing practices ignores the qualitative shift introduced by the transatlantic slave trade. This system, driven by European powers, was not just based on war and economics as slavery had been historically. Instead, it was racialized to an unprecedented degree, leveraging advanced navigational and military technologies to operate on a scale and with a brutality unlike anything seen before. This racialization process underpinned the justification for enslaving millions of Africans, contributing to systemic racial disparities that persist to this day.

The impact of European colonialism extends far beyond the mere act of enslavement. Colonization led to the annihilation of indigenous populations through warfare, forced displacement, and the spread of diseases to which native peoples had no immunity. Whole continents were plundered for their resources, their wealth extracted, and their cultural and social structures severely disrupted or destroyed. The legacy of these actions cannot be understated, as they have shaped the current socioeconomic disparities observed globally.

In the modern era, the patterns of exploitation and dominance have evolved into what can be termed neocolonialism, perpetuated through globalism, neoliberal policies, and capitalist imperialism. The West, particularly former colonial powers and the United States, continues to exert significant influence over the economies and politics of developing nations. This is achieved not through direct colonial rule, but through economic mechanisms such as sanctions, debt dependency, and the control over international financial institutions.

Furthermore, the orchestration of coups and the installation of puppet regimes have been strategies employed to ensure that nations within Africa, Latin America, and other regions align with the interests of Western capitalist elites. These actions undermine the sovereignty and democratic aspirations of the people in these regions, ensuring continued access to cheap labor and natural resources.

The support for colonial projects and military interventions, as seen in the support for Zionism in Israel and the wars in Libya and Syria, are contemporary examples of imperialist practices that destabilize regions for geopolitical gain. The presence of American troops in Syria, ostensibly for controlling oil fields, and the prolonged military engagement in Iraq are indicative of a neocolonial ambition to dominate strategic resources and regions.

France's control over the currency of several African countries is a stark example of neocolonial economic dominance, where former colonial powers retain significant control over the economies of their former colonies, perpetuating a cycle of dependency and exploitation.

In addressing these issues, it is imperative to understand that the legacy of European colonialism and the current practices of neocolonialism are not relics of the past but ongoing realities that continue to impact millions of lives. The fight against this form of imperialism is not just a struggle for economic independence but also for the right to self-determination, cultural preservation, and social justice.

As an anti-imperialist, recognizing these patterns of exploitation and speaking out against them is crucial. It is about challenging the narratives that seek to justify or diminish the impacts of colonialism and neocolonialism, advocating for a world where nations and peoples have the freedom to determine their own futures without external coercion or exploitation. The struggle against imperialism is a testament to the resilience of those who have suffered under its yoke and a call to action for all who seek a more just and equitable world order.

 

[LeftofLeft]

The white race paid no price whatsoever for ending slavery. None. They've been patting themselves on the back for having dones so ever since though.

Being white and born in the 40's, I couldn't believe how blacks were treated in a nation which called itself the "Home of the brave, and the land of the Free". Crosses being burned on people's laws. Lynchings. The fight for the black vote. Segregation.

In a nation where all men are created equal?????? Even as a child I could see that "Separate but equal" was flat out bullshit.

Blacks are still fighting for equal treatment under the law, and reparations are still due for all.

I can’t believe Blacks in Africa still practice slavery and American Blacks stay silent.

 

[AtlasWept]

The white race paid no price whatsoever for ending slavery. None. They've been patting themselves on the back for having dones so ever since though.

Being white and born in the 40's, I couldn't believe how blacks were treated in a nation which called itself the "Home of the brave, and the land of the Free". Crosses being burned on people's laws. Lynchings. The fight for the black vote. Segregation.

In a nation where all men are created equal?????? Even as a child I could see that "Separate but equal" was flat out bullshit.

Blacks are still fighting for equal treatment under the law, and reparations are still due for all.

Yes, American has been the land of hypocrisy. And so has every country. Acknowledge it and move on. Reparations are unworkable and unjust. That's reality and it's time you stepped into it.