Texas executes street smart retarded man

[Kiki Cannoli]

Milton Mathis' IQ was in the 60s and was executed. Texas Board of Pardons and Parole stated that Mathis was street smart and eligible to be put to death.

Does it matter?

Milton Mathis, Convicted Killer, Executed In Texas Despite Evidence Of Retardation

 

[California Girl]

Texans should be ashamed.

 

[Sunni Man]

That's why I love Texas!!!

They have the death penalty and use it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

ok, so they sentenced him to die for killing 2 and trying to kill a 3rd.

THEN they had him take an IQ test. With him knowing that if he failed he could avoid justice.

Gee, do you think he tried his best to get a high score?

huh, do ya?

 

[Mad Scientist]

There's a simple solution to all this; don't kill anyone in Texas.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

So it does not matter what the intellectual capacity of the convicted is, guilty is guilty? Kill'em all smart or dumb.

 

[Two Thumbs]

There's a simple solution to all this; don't kill anyone in Texas.

Philosophy that great belongs on the level as Plato and that Socrates guy.

so if I don't want to get executed in TX. I shouldn't kill anyone in TX?

How deeply profound.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So it does not matter what the intellectual capacity of the convicted is, guilty is guilty? Kill'em all smart or dumb.

No don't kill 'em all just kill the killers.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So it does not matter what the intellectual capacity of the convicted is, guilty is guilty? Kill'em all smart or dumb.

dumb people are just as able to be evil as the next person.

If he actually was retarded, in other words, he had no chance to understand what he was doing, then he should have been put in a hospital of some kind.

but there was no proof provided in the link. It was implied that he could qualify.

but I'd have to be one of the owners of the Brooklyn bridge to think he didn't throw that IQ test to save his own hide.

Justice was served.

 

[strollingbones]

not enough information to make a judgement....did he try to elude the police ...hide the crime...etc...in nc....all that matters is if you knew right from wrong.....simple as that....

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

What we know of the condemned is the IQ = 60s. Thus we can refer to the following simplified definitions to ascertain what MMs retardation level was and we will conclude that he was between moron and borderline retarded.

IQ Archaic Description Description Score higher than:
10 Idiot Profound Mental Retardation Fewer than 1 out of 100,000
25 " Severe Mental Retardation "
40 Imbecile Moderate Mental Retardation 3 out of 100,000
55 Moron Mild Mental Retardation 13 out of 10,000
70 Borderline 2 out of 100
85 Dull Normal Low Average 16 out of 100
100 Average Half
115 High Average 84 out of 100
125 Superior 95 out of 100
130 Genius Very Superior/Gifted 98.5 out of 100
145 9,913 out of 10,000

If MMs IQ was 25, would this change your position?

Two thumbs up - I acknowledge the ability to throw a test if the taker is operating with an IQ above "normal."

http://www.psychologicaltesting.com/iqtest.htm

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

not enough information to make a judgement....did he try to elude the police ...hide the crime...etc...in nc....all that matters is if you knew right from wrong.....simple as that....

So, its a case by case basis, no blanket law determining the retardation line?

 

[Two Thumbs]

not enough information to make a judgement....did he try to elude the police ...hide the crime...etc...in nc....all that matters is if you knew right from wrong.....simple as that....

Good point.

Sadly the link is mostly one sided and the reporters opinion on being against the DP comes through.

It took 12 years to put him down. I find it unlikely that he never saw a doctor that could back up his claim.

 

[Two Thumbs]

What we know of the condemned is the IQ = 60s. Thus we can refer to the following simplified definitions to ascertain what MMs retardation level was and we will conclude that he was between moron and borderline retarded.

IQ Archaic Description Description Score higher than:
10 Idiot Profound Mental Retardation Fewer than 1 out of 100,000
25 " Severe Mental Retardation "
40 Imbecile Moderate Mental Retardation 3 out of 100,000
55 Moron Mild Mental Retardation 13 out of 10,000
70 Borderline 2 out of 100
85 Dull Normal Low Average 16 out of 100
100 Average Half
115 High Average 84 out of 100
125 Superior 95 out of 100
130 Genius Very Superior/Gifted 98.5 out of 100
145 9,913 out of 10,000

If MMs IQ was 25, would this change your position?

Two thumbs up - I acknowledge the ability to throw a test if the taker is operating with an IQ above "normal."

IQ Testing

The clincher for me is; In al that time, no doctor supported his claim for retardation.

He had a gun, he new how to use it and knew to go for the head.

Being dumb or uneducated is no excuse. Per the link he dropped out of 9th grade. With that level of education, anyone would struggle to take an age appropriate IQ test.

 

[Kiki Cannoli]

not enough information to make a judgement....did he try to elude the police ...hide the crime...etc...in nc....all that matters is if you knew right from wrong.....simple as that....

Good point.

Sadly the link is mostly one sided and the reporters opinion on being against the DP comes through.

It took 12 years to put him down. I find it unlikely that he never saw a doctor that could back up his claim.

My point is really about defining eligibility to be executed, not necessarily MMs particulars. His is a current case study worthy of discussion, but the bigger a question is does executing borderline retarded beings violate the 8th amendment?

Excerpt taken from court ruling:
By contrast the Court in 1989 found “insufficient evidence of a national consensus against executing mentally retarded people.” While the Court conceded that “it may indeed be ‘cruel and unusual’ punishment to execute persons who are profoundly or severely retarded and wholly lacking the capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of their actions,” retarded persons who have been found competent to stand trial, and who have failed to establish an insanity defense, fall into a different category. Consequently, the Court was unwilling to conclude that execution of a mentally retarded person is “categorically prohibited by the Eighth Amendment.”136 What is required in this as in other contexts, however, is individualized consideration of culpability: a retarded defendant must be offered the benefit of an instruction that the jury may consider and give mitigating effect to evidence of retardation or abused background.137

CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Eighth Amendment

Mitigating circumstances apply, individual stories considered - this begs the question are state laws banning the execution of a particular IQ unconstitutional?

Specifics regarding MM Milton Mathis - Possible Mental Retardation - the International Justice Project

 

[Two Thumbs]

not enough information to make a judgement....did he try to elude the police ...hide the crime...etc...in nc....all that matters is if you knew right from wrong.....simple as that....

Good point.

Sadly the link is mostly one sided and the reporters opinion on being against the DP comes through.

It took 12 years to put him down. I find it unlikely that he never saw a doctor that could back up his claim.

My point is really about defining eligibility to be executed, not necessarily MMs particulars. His is a current case study worthy of discussion, but the bigger a question is does executing borderline retarded beings violate the 8th amendment?

Excerpt taken from court ruling:
By contrast the Court in 1989 found “insufficient evidence of a national consensus against executing mentally retarded people.” While the Court conceded that “it may indeed be ‘cruel and unusual’ punishment to execute persons who are profoundly or severely retarded and wholly lacking the capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of their actions,” retarded persons who have been found competent to stand trial, and who have failed to establish an insanity defense, fall into a different category. Consequently, the Court was unwilling to conclude that execution of a mentally retarded person is “categorically prohibited by the Eighth Amendment.”136 What is required in this as in other contexts, however, is individualized consideration of culpability: a retarded defendant must be offered the benefit of an instruction that the jury may consider and give mitigating effect to evidence of retardation or abused background.137

CRS/LII Annotated Constitution Eighth Amendment

Mitigating circumstances apply, individual stories considered - this begs the question are state laws banning the execution of a particular IQ unconstitutional?

Specifics regarding MM Milton Mathis - Possible Mental Retardation - the International Justice Project

That sounds cut an dry in this case. He wasn't so retarded he didn't understand.

Even in a general case. You have to prove that you [your defense team] are not able to grasp what you have done.

 

[Anachronism]

So it does not matter what the intellectual capacity of the convicted is, guilty is guilty? Kill'em all smart or dumb.

YES. What do we do with mad dogs who bite people.... We put them down. There shouldn't be any difference for people simply because they may not be mentally competent. They have proven an inability to live within the acceptable limitations of society... Buh Bye.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So it does not matter what the intellectual capacity of the convicted is, guilty is guilty? Kill'em all smart or dumb.

YES. What do we do with mad dogs who bite people.... We put them down. There shouldn't be any difference for people simply because they may not be mentally competent. They have proven an inability to live within the acceptable limitations of society... Buh Bye.

People are not dogs. And mad dogs are sick, not evil.

 

[Anachronism]

People are not dogs.

True. Most of the human beings I've met in my almost 37 years aren't worth a tenth of what any one of the animals who have been in my life are worth to me.

And mad dogs are sick, not evil.

It makes no difference so far as I'm concerned whether the action was knowing or unknowing; a result of sickness or choice. Once a person or animal has gone down the road of violence without cause, they need to be put down.... for the betterment of society as a whole if not simply as punishment for their acts.