Texans are fools to pass up on Johnny Football.here is why.

[LA RAM FAN]

He is a very accurate passer, but his style of scrambling will see him hurt in his first season.

not if he can be reeled in and be more discilined in the pocket.steve young and breat farve had the same style he has and it worked out pretty good for both of them.they bother in their very early careers played recklessly as well scarmbing around first and not looking to pass.Young in the very beginning especially ,was always looking to run first before passing but later made the adustment to pass first in the pocket and THEN scramble only if nothing was there,no reason to believe the same thing cant happen for manziel.

Steve Young and Brett Favre are both 6"2'. When you're 5" 11' 3/4' standing in the pocket becomes a little more problematic. Leaving the pocket is a sign he cant see over the linemen,which will only get worse in the NFL.
That and of course having the physique of a stickman aint gonna help when they catch up to him.....which we all know is going to happen at some point.

as I said earlier,Wilson is 5"11' as well,i guarantee you every NFL team is cursing themselves for passing up on him right now,a guy who is very similair to manziel but listens more carefully to his coach. we've seen lots of prospects grow up once they got into the NFL and shed their ways in college.no reason manziel cant do the same.just have to wait and see how badly he wants to play in the NFL.that is something none of us know but him.that if he is hungry like wilson

 

[LA RAM FAN]

But the question of whether he can discipline himself is a big one. He started a world of shit flying last year, and it looked like he never slowed down. I see him self-destructing in a very short time.

It depends on if he is alined with an excellent mentor or not.Somone like pete carrol for instance would be able to reel him in.now if he got stuck with a coach like harbaugh then thats trouble for him.

He is a grown man. Are you telling me that his success depends on whether he can get a nanny to try and control him??

So the millions of dollars to play a sport isn't enough, he has to have someone cajole him into behaving like a grownup??

I think that speaks volumes about why teams are questioning his value.

he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt.

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as undisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why every team passed him up and he went in the second round.The Falcons were so much worried about that thinking his recklessness would be a disaster,they made the worst mistake in their lives that they could kills themselves for now.trading him away that fatefal day to the green bay packers who overlooked that and saw the greatness that was waiting in him.

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years.

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I already acknowledged i was wrong about that.read post #6.

Just reinforcing how knowledgable you are.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

I would say thats correct that Im very knowledgeable about football.


was I fool that so many others were here to actually believe the donkeys would win the superbowl despite having a QB that had a long history of choking in big games?

I fail to see how many people could have been so dense to think he would have any chance against that defense. you cant complete a pass when your receiver is covered all the time and your line is getting manhandled.I tried to explain that to everybody here but it just went through one ear and out the other with the majority.

Here is the proof in the pudding I knew beyond a doubt it was going to be a blowout.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/sport...ng-the-broncos-to-win-forget-these-facts.html

amazing how there were only a couple others out there i saw who was smart enough to understand what i knew,that the team that won the NFC championship game was the team that would win the superbowl.that only a couple others here understood that here besides me.Understanding the REAL superbowl was going to be the niners/seahawks game.

even Richard Sherman grugingly said the same thing here below.he said this grudgingly about the niners because of the rivalry.

The NFC Championship was the Super Bowl,” Sherman says. “The 49ers were the second-best team in the NFL.”


It didnt take a genius to see what was right in front of everybodys faces that myself and only a couple others saw.It doesnt take a genius to see that a team that was going into the game healthy but the other team had some key injurys,who would win,plus a quarterback who always chokes against top notch competition.it hardly took a genus to be able to figure out what the obvious outcome would be,yet most posters here couldnt somehow see what was right on front of their eyes.

oh and as I said before,seldom do i ever use wikipedia because they leave out key facts in their version of events when it concerns government corruption. you would think they would be accurate though on something like this they CANT coverup.

Like the newspapers people receive,what the papers report on events that happen as far as government corruption is concerned is altogether different than what actually happened,they leave out key details and facts that dont go along with their version of events but when it comes to the sports page,thats too big a thing, so they cant lie and HAVE to report the facts about a football team for instance.they cant say they won when they really lost because of too many witnesses there who know better.

well i figured wikipedia would follow the same pattern,yeah they lie about government corruption all the time,but why would they be stupid enough to lie about sports,what do they gain by THAT? Government events i understand lying about,the media is only a tool for the government,they dont do any real investigation,buy WHY would they lie about a fact like that/ that doesnt make any sense,what do they have to gain on lying about manziel? that just doesnt make any sense so i figured i could at LEAST trust them abotu sports.

looks like you cant trust wiki on ANYTHING though obviously.

You jumped from the Seattle ship against the 49ers, you were wrong.

So you are not any better than others.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.[/QUOTE]

uh i never said i was any better than others,most people here kept saying the donkeys would win,being too stupid to not figure out what sherman already knew,that the niners were the second best team in the league.

again you keep ignoring i said all the way up till that week whoever wins that game is gonna beat the donkeys cause only a fool would have picked them knowing how manning always chokes in the big game against top notch competition. only a fool would have picked them after forgetting the only reason the niners game was close was cause of kappys scrambling,that the hawks would be in heaven not having to worry about a qb that is the staute of liberty. i picked the ravens to beat the niners last year,but that time i did not go and say people were fools for picking the niners cause they didnt have a quarterback that was a statue of liberty playing who had a LONNGGGGGGG history of choking in the big game.

people who picked the niners to win that superbowl werent fools,the niners have a tough physical defense with a qb that can sramble and make soemthing out of nothing,the donkeys have neither of those ingrediants.plus a qb who panicks in big games so i at least wised uop and wasnt a fool like those fools were.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury

Look at Jim Plunkett, David Carr and Alex Smith

Mid first round is about right. Texans should either take Clowney or trade down

I wouldnt mind if they picked Khalil Mack.

I saw that predicted. Looks like an excellent choice. Manziel is a potential nightmare with some serious skills. Clowney has tons of talent but questionable work ethic, so he may be a bust too.

Mack looks like the real deal and would be an instant asset.

yeah if the texans pass on johnny,i think they should go after mack because i read what you just said,that clowney has questionable work ethic,that is a randy moss on defense,takes some plays off.they want to go with defense,then they should go with mack for the first pick.if they think jt whats his name is reliable enough to get them to the big dance under a strong defense,good luck to them,but thats quite a risk to take.

 

[HUGGY]

It depends on if he is alined with an excellent mentor or not.Somone like pete carrol for instance would be able to reel him in.now if he got stuck with a coach like harbaugh then thats trouble for him.

He is a grown man. Are you telling me that his success depends on whether he can get a nanny to try and control him??

So the millions of dollars to play a sport isn't enough, he has to have someone cajole him into behaving like a grownup??

I think that speaks volumes about why teams are questioning his value.

he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt.

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as unddisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why many of them passed on him when the falcons released him.

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years.

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.

More first round QBs fail than succeed.

As far as comparing Wilson to Manzeil I don't see many parallels. Wilson has stuck to his OWN developement program being dropped by NC State not for lack of skills but Wilson was told he could play baseball also and the school changed it's mind as Wilson completed his Junior year. He transferred to Wisconsin where he was voted the team captain in Spring training and without missing a beat learned their system and took them to the Rose Bowl in his senior year. Wilson's ability to set goals and acheive them are becoming legendary. The comparison drawn to those two players has been for the most part been promoted by Johnnie Football.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I would not risk an overall #1 on Manziel. If you want an undersized QB you can get one in the second round

A player like Clowney comes around every five years or so. If they want a stretch, take Khalil Mack...he will be a better player than Manziel

If size mattered as much as this thread has emphasises it could, then how did Manziel play out the last season?

How different in size are Manziel and Wilson?



Frankly all this noise about size seems to be only a red herring, diverting attention from other key components of successful quarterbacks: Scrambing Talent, speed, intelligence, ice under pressure, passion to win, loyalty of team, great receivers.

yeah WHY is that everytime someone wants to talk about his negatives,they ALWAYS bring up the size thing when wilson,the same height of johnny,has proved,height is overrated.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I can tottally understand why Kurt Warner and Roger Staubach after looking at this footage said WOW!!!

Johnny Manziel || The Amazing Johnny Football || 2013-14 Highlights - YouTube
amazing is right.

Notice that while there indeed were many times he took off and ran with the ball,He also dropped back in the pocket and threw the ball down the field accurately?

Its extremely rare that you see a QB like this who makes something out of nothing like when he went up the middle in the video and it looked like the end of him,only he bounced off it and completed the pass.That just made me go wow!!!! He also reminded me of Russel wilson there the way he dropped back and turned around and completed the pass.

Wilson is the same kind of scrambler Johnny is and unlike his counterpart Kapernick,he has learned from being in the NFL to instead of automatically running with the ball most the time when he drops back,he looks to pass FIRST now that he is in the pros.

Johnny can do the same thing.Learn to look to pass first in the pocket and only take off when nothings there like Wilson does.

you wont like this Hug,but his play reminds me an awful lot of Wilson.This guy has some major potential that I would not pass up on if I was the texans or the Lambs in st louis according to all the mock drafts apparently are going to do.


You also got to remember,Steve Young was exactly like Johnny Football in college as well.Would always take off and run first when he got the ball instead of dropping back to look downfield and pass first but after his first couple years he made the adjustment.

Young and Wilson, two college scramblers in their heydey converted to being a passer and one is in the hall of fame and there is no reason to believe the other wont join him in the future.

Young made it through most his career without any major injurys till late in his career when he could not take hit to the helmet anymore and Wilson has yet to sustain any injurys either.

If the Texans want to be fools and pass up a major talent with great potential like this guy has,well then I feel sorry for them.This is rare talent you dont see everyday. someone mentioned they would take Borders and bridgewater first over manziel.okay whatever.

and you want to tell me there arent any quarterbacks in the college draft that are not worth a first round pick? okay,whatever.

If this was any other year I would alugh my ass off that that team in st louis would pass on him since i alwasy root for them to lose all the time but since my Rams look to be back in LA next year,I will be pissed if they pass up on him like they are talking about and they are indeed the LA RAMS again knowing they could have had such a great talent in their long history of great quarterback in their 49 history out there on the west coast.

Johnny may not succeed immediately right off the bat like wilson did,but give him a couple years and look out. Bortles and Bridgewater I think will be good to and they look impressive also.Not to the extremes Johnny does though.This kid looks to be special.

he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt.

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as unddisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why many of them passed on him when the falcons released him.

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years.

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.
__________________






I dont mean to toot my own horn here from these two previous posts I made above but without trying to sound arrogant,I am really looking like a genius for saying those comments above earlier because John Gruden is pretty much saying the exact same thing that I just said in these two posts above and through out this thread and I was making the comparison of manziel to both young and farve even BEFORE I saw this article of John Gruden making the same comparison.

Here is an article I saw in USA TODAY this past weekend with Gruden talking saying he agrees with me,that Manziel is too good to pass up,that the texans should take him with the first pick.Here is is. the headline goes on to read-

MANZIEL'S "MAGIC" WORTH RISK,GRUDEN SAYS.it then goes on to say in the whole article-


The Houston texans are wrestling with a potential what-if nightmare with the No.1 pick in next months NFL draft.

what if they pass on Texas A&M star Johnny Manziel and the small town Texas quarterback with big play improvisational skills turns out to be the next Brett Farve?

John Gruden,who recently worked with manziel for his GRUDEN QB CAMP series on ESPN,says the 2012 heisman trophy winner has the type of rare improvisational skills you wont want to regret passing up."

"Its a big concern," Gruden,the superbowl XXXVII-winning coach of the tampa bay buccaneers,told USA TODAY sports."Johnny has a lot of magic to him.Theres not a more exciting college football player I've seen in the last few years.You want that club in your bag."

Gruden,who worked with Farve as a Green Bay Packers assistant coach from 1992 to 1994,says manziel stood out among the nine top quarterback draft prospects he interviewed and worked out.

"I had more fun with manziel than I did most guys." Gruden said."I'd love to have him.It takes courage to pull the ball down and reverse field and do some of the crazy things that farve and manziel do.Theres going to be consequences when sometimes it doesnt work out.But it takes a tremendous amount of guts and courage to go make a play when theres nothing there instead of throwing the ball away."

Gruden ALSO compared manziel to hall of fame quarterback steve young,who improvised and ran more earlier in his career.with some polish and direction,Gruden thinks the former AGGIES quarterback could have a bright future in the NFL.

"this kid [would have] two years left in the NCCA," Gruden said."so if you get him with a quarterback coach or anybody that aspires to be a quarterback coach and spend the time teaching this kid NFL defenses and your system,I cant imiagine Johnny not being successful."

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

Gruden called Manziel out on his johnny football image and thinks manziel is sincere about distancing himself from the perceptions of him as a bad boy celebrity quarterback.

"Nobody is perfect,but you certainly dont want your quarterback flying around during the week-you dont want to read about your quarterback in the newspaper every day of the week." Gruden said."I think he's learned a lesson,but he's got to prove that."

 

[LA RAM FAN]

He is a grown man. Are you telling me that his success depends on whether he can get a nanny to try and control him??

So the millions of dollars to play a sport isn't enough, he has to have someone cajole him into behaving like a grownup??

I think that speaks volumes about why teams are questioning his value.

he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt.

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as unddisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why many of them passed on him when the falcons released him.

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years.

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.

More first round QBs fail than succeed.

As far as comparing Wilson to Manzeil I don't see many parallels. Wilson has stuck to his OWN developement program being dropped by NC State not for lack of skills but Wilson was told he could play baseball also and the school changed it's mind as Wilson completed his Junior year. He transferred to Wisconsin where he was voted the team captain in Spring training and without missing a beat learned their system and took them to the Rose Bowl in his senior year. Wilson's ability to set goals and acheive them are becoming legendary. The comparison drawn to those two players has been for the most part been promoted by Johnnie Football.

yeah but were all those ones that failed highly rated by credible people like roger staubach,kurt warner,john gruden and many others? did they all go WOW,this guy is a rare extreme talent? I cant remember that far back, but im pretty sure they did not say that about san diego chargers bust from the past Ryan Leaf for example.

I serioulsy doubt all the others that were first round picks were an EXTREME RARE talent like johnny though.i would say thats the difference between him and the ones that failed.

I dont recall well known people like those three for instance, raving over him like they did with peyton manning saying he is a must pick like they did with manning. amazing what a difference it makes having the number one pick over the second pick with leaf being the second pick in the draft behind manning doesnt it?

I dont see Manziel being anything like the troublemaker Leaf was.Leaf was disaterous off the field getting into all kinds of trouble and let having bad games get to him unable to shrug it off which was eventually his downfall. Johnny looks too talented and determined to let things get to him likebust Leaf did.

Well there are a couple Parallels while not many.Manziel just like wilson,is only 5'11' right?
people have their doubts about manziel if he will do well in the pros right?

Look how many people have come on here and questiond his height. Now if it werent for wilson I could see that but come on.

every team in the NFL also had very high doubts about wilson,never thinking he had a chance in the world to be great in the beginning,thinking he would be a long term project HOPING eventally 3 or 4 years down the road he would start playing well not seeing the greatness in him in the very beginning..overlooking him cause of his height.major mistake.

they both are the same height but not tall by quarterback standards.wilson they didnt think would be great obviously and people have their questions on johnny as well cause of the height being one of the factors. wilson heard his whole life he wouldnt make it to the pros cause of his height.well johnny is hearing the same thing.thats one.

johhny can reverse field and scramble around on the run just like wilson.thats two.

johnny has great improve skills as does wilson.just ask gruden.thats three.



has a strong accurate arm just like wilson did when he was in college.thats four.

Like i said,he has at least a COUPLE of them.

 

[HUGGY]

he already has the money,his family is rich so money isnt an issue for him.the fact he is coming out of college so early tells me he has the passion and love to play pro football the same way that farve always did.farve wasnt playing the game for the love of the money like most players in the NFL do,he was doing it for the love of the game and cause he had so much fun with it.

He would take a hit and pat that guy on the shoulder and say good hit while on the ground.a rare player that loved the game till the end. I see lots of similaritys between him and farve.I see him as the same type of a wilson,farve,and young,mostly farve with his improvisation and reckless skills.farve was reckless as well but was tough and never got hurt.

you ALSO got to remember,that a lot of people around the NFL didnt think farve was going to amount to anything either in the beginning being as unddisciplined in the pocket when he came into the NFL which is why many of them passed on him when the falcons released him.

you just KNOW all those teams were cursing themselves all those years while farve was playing with the packers knowing some of them had a chance to get him just like they are kicking themselves right now at this very minute for listening to people here like yourself to all the negatives about wilson,that he would be a project and would take a couple years of seasoning before being succesful in the league,questioning if he would succeeed because of his height.

i guarantee thay hate themselves right now for listening to all the naysayers that he would be a project,that he is risky because of his height.they are all pulling the hair out of their head right now.

not many are as tough as farve was granted but wilson has yet to get hurt and he plays somewhat like him.

there have been lots of players coming out of college that were immature coming out but got reeled in later.No reason to think manziel cant grow up just liek they did.that will be his choice though of course.

I see no reason why he cant make the adjustment like young did after a few years in the NFL from a scrambler to a pocket passer.Wilson at 5'11 as well has done the same thing,no reason to think manziel cant do it as well within two years.

I dont see him being a colin kapernick who unlike wilson,looks to run FIRST before passing.I see him in two years down the road,playing alot like wilson,inspiring people and making them better players just like wilson does.

Lots of players coming straight out of college had to have coachs cajol them to reel them in to become mature in later years ever since the existance of football so would johnny be the first one to have neeeded it? obviously not.

More first round QBs fail than succeed.

As far as comparing Wilson to Manzeil I don't see many parallels. Wilson has stuck to his OWN developement program being dropped by NC State not for lack of skills but Wilson was told he could play baseball also and the school changed it's mind as Wilson completed his Junior year. He transferred to Wisconsin where he was voted the team captain in Spring training and without missing a beat learned their system and took them to the Rose Bowl in his senior year. Wilson's ability to set goals and acheive them are becoming legendary. The comparison drawn to those two players has been for the most part been promoted by Johnnie Football.

yeah but were all those ones that failed highly rated by credible people like roger staubach,kurt warner,john gruden and many others? did they all go WOW,this guy is a rare extreme talent? I cant remember that far back, but im pretty sure they did not say that about san diego chargers bust from the past Ryan Leaf for example.

I dont recall well known people like those three for instance, raving over him like they did with peyton manning saying he is a must pick like they did with manning. amazing what a difference it makes having the number one pick over the second pick with leaf being the second pick in the draft behind manning doesnt it?

I dont see Manziel being anything like the troublemaker Leaf was.Leaf was disaterous off the field getting into all kinds of trouble and let having bad games get to him unable to shrug it off which was eventually his downfall. Johnny looks too talented and determined to let things get to him likebust Leaf did.

Well there are a couple Parallels while not many.Manziel just like wilson,is only 5'11' right?
people have their doubts about manziel if he will do well in the pros right?

Look how many people have come on here and questiond his height. Now if it werent for wilson I could see that but come on.

every team in the NFL also had very high doubts about wilson,never thinking he had a chance in the world to be great in the beginning,thinking he would be a long term project HOPING eventally 3 or 4 years down the road he would start playing well not seeing the greatness in him in the very beginning..overlooking him cause of his height.major mistake.

they both are the same height but not tall by quarterback standards.wilson they didnt think would be great obviously and people have their questions on johnny as well cause of the height being one of the factors. wilson heard his whole life he wouldnt make it to the pros cause of his height.well johnny is hearing the same thing.thats one.

johhny can reverse field and scramble around on the run just like wilson.thats two.

johnny has great improve skills as does wilson.just ask gruden.thats three.

Like i said,he has a COUPLE of them.

has a strong accurate arm just like wilson did when he was in college.thats four.

Like i said,he has at least a COUPLE of them.

I don't see abandoning your last two years as a college QB a smart choice. Of all the positions in football the QB position takes the longest to develope. Wilson busted his ass to get AS MUCH as he could out of his college football experience. Not so with Manzeil.

I don't think there are any short cuts to becoming a QB in the NFL. All of this is predicated on a supposed first round pick. A first rounder needs to be ready to play in this day and age. Manzeil has far too much to learn to make it as a starting QB in the NFL.

This is all just speculation but I don't think he is NFL ready. If he gets to start somewhere and succeeds good for him. I just don't see it happening. I believe if he is put in that position in the 2014 season he will fail.

 

[hangover]

I think I heard Manziel is going to Dallas, and Shaub went to the Raiders. I thought the Raiders were going to get smarter when Al Davis checked out. Pft!

like father like son. Naw I dont think manziel will be around for dallas to take him.I see jacksonville surprising everyone and taking him with the 3rd pick.they need something to get that doorman franchise excited again and mack as good as he is,wont do it in jacksonville if they sign him like some in the mock draft think they will.

I think you underestimate Jerry Jones' buying power. Since the rich can buy the government, Jones buying Manziel is chump change.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

More first round QBs fail than succeed.

As far as comparing Wilson to Manzeil I don't see many parallels. Wilson has stuck to his OWN developement program being dropped by NC State not for lack of skills but Wilson was told he could play baseball also and the school changed it's mind as Wilson completed his Junior year. He transferred to Wisconsin where he was voted the team captain in Spring training and without missing a beat learned their system and took them to the Rose Bowl in his senior year. Wilson's ability to set goals and acheive them are becoming legendary. The comparison drawn to those two players has been for the most part been promoted by Johnnie Football.

yeah but were all those ones that failed highly rated by credible people like roger staubach,kurt warner,john gruden and many others? did they all go WOW,this guy is a rare extreme talent? I cant remember that far back, but im pretty sure they did not say that about san diego chargers bust from the past Ryan Leaf for example.

I dont recall well known people like those three for instance, raving over him like they did with peyton manning saying he is a must pick like they did with manning. amazing what a difference it makes having the number one pick over the second pick with leaf being the second pick in the draft behind manning doesnt it?

I dont see Manziel being anything like the troublemaker Leaf was.Leaf was disaterous off the field getting into all kinds of trouble and let having bad games get to him unable to shrug it off which was eventually his downfall. Johnny looks too talented and determined to let things get to him likebust Leaf did.

Well there are a couple Parallels while not many.Manziel just like wilson,is only 5'11' right?
people have their doubts about manziel if he will do well in the pros right?

Look how many people have come on here and questiond his height. Now if it werent for wilson I could see that but come on.

every team in the NFL also had very high doubts about wilson,never thinking he had a chance in the world to be great in the beginning,thinking he would be a long term project HOPING eventally 3 or 4 years down the road he would start playing well not seeing the greatness in him in the very beginning..overlooking him cause of his height.major mistake.

they both are the same height but not tall by quarterback standards.wilson they didnt think would be great obviously and people have their questions on johnny as well cause of the height being one of the factors. wilson heard his whole life he wouldnt make it to the pros cause of his height.well johnny is hearing the same thing.thats one.

johhny can reverse field and scramble around on the run just like wilson.thats two.

johnny has great improve skills as does wilson.just ask gruden.thats three.

Like i said,he has a COUPLE of them.

has a strong accurate arm just like wilson did when he was in college.thats four.

Like i said,he has at least a COUPLE of them.

I don't see abandoning your last two years as a college QB a smart choice. Of all the positions in football the QB position takes the longest to develope. Wilson busted his ass to get AS MUCH as he could out of his college football experience. Not so with Manzeil.

I don't think there are any short cuts to becoming a QB in the NFL. All of this is predicated on a supposed first round pick. A first rounder needs to be ready to play in this day and age. Manzeil has far too much to learn to make it as a starting QB in the NFL.

This is all just speculation but I don't think he is NFL ready. If he gets to start somewhere and succeeds good for him. I just don't see it happening. I believe if he is put in that position in the 2014 season he will fail.

well i agree with you on that.I think that would be a major mistake for them to make him a starter immediately his first year not finishing out the last two years.I think he should still be the number one pick,i just dont think that just because he is the number one pick that you start him immediately in his first year our of college like they did with Luck and with Rg3.that would be a mistake telling him "you were one of the top choices in the first round so were going make you a starter right now." I would hope the coach and the GM would sit down and explain that to him. that would be stupid to throw him in the mix starting this year,thats no question..the NFL needs to stop this nonsense of cause your the number one pick or your a first round pick so you need to start now nonsense.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Manziel can be a decent QB in the right system where he isn't expected to carry the team. Overall number one QBs are not afforded that luxury

Look at Jim Plunkett, David Carr and Alex Smith

Mid first round is about right. Texans should either take Clowney or trade down

I wouldnt mind if they picked Khalil Mack.

I saw that predicted. Looks like an excellent choice. Manziel is a potential nightmare with some serious skills. Clowney has tons of talent but questionable work ethic, so he may be a bust too.

Mack looks like the real deal and would be an instant asset.

Im sure the atlanta falcons thought the same exact same thing when they made the worst mistake of their life trading away farve for some draft picks.that because of his recklessness and crazy improvisational skills,that he was a potential disaster waiting to happen. you know they were thinking that.They obvioulsy didnt see the greatness waiting in him and understand that he would mature later one.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.

Its ironic that you mentioned that about O brien above because this is what Gruden has to say about him playing for him below.this was part of what I posted in post #147. Gruden must be psychic or something.Its like he is reading our minds.First he compares manziel to Young and Farve AFTER i did,and now he is talking about how he thinks he would work in O Briens system AFTER you mention it.is that cosmic ot what?

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

sit johnny on the bench his first year and have him watch and learn under cant remember that QB they have now,but have him watch and learn from him his first year,and by 2015,I see him ready to go.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.

Its ironic that you mentioned that about O brien above because this is what Gruden has to say about him playing for him below.this was part of what I posted in post #147. Gruden must be psychic ro soemthing.its like he is reading our minds.First he compares manziel to Young and farve AFTER i did,and now he is talking about how he thinks he would work in o briens system AFTER you mention it.is that cosmic ot what?

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

Why would he want a QB that has to be groomed(forced)to stay in the pocket?
Thats not Johnny's game.
The kid may turn out to be a dynamo....but I doubt it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

And Johnny doesnt fit what O'brien considers his ideal QB and since the guy is considered a genius when it comes to offense and QBs? I'll take his word over some guy on the internet.

Its ironic that you mentioned that about O brien above because this is what Gruden has to say about him playing for him below.this was part of what I posted in post #147. Gruden must be psychic ro soemthing.its like he is reading our minds.First he compares manziel to Young and farve AFTER i did,and now he is talking about how he thinks he would work in o briens system AFTER you mention it.is that cosmic ot what?

Gruden thinks Manziel is a dynamic playmaker who would fit with Bill O' Brien and the former new england offensive coordinater would be the right coach to rein in manziel as a more disciplined pocket passer.

Why would he want a QB that has to be groomed(forced)to stay in the pocket?
Thats not Johnny's game.
The kid may turn out to be a dynamo....but I doubt it.

It wasnt Young,or Farves game coming out of college either,but they eventually made the adjustment looking to pass first and only take off when the pocket broke down and everyone was covered.

No reason to believe that he cant be groomed to make the same adjustment.Gruden thinks he can and he knows him firsthand MUCH better than any of us here on the board.what Gruden said is good enough for me to take him as the first pick.He knows much more about football and talented players that any of us do thats for sure.

It will all depend on Johnnys willingness to WANT to make the adjustment of course.He may turn out to be like Kapernick and Rg3 who are both always looking to run first before throwing it waiting to throw it while on the run.Its not RG3 or Kappernicks game to be a pocket passer.They havent made the adjustment and while it hasnt hurt Kapernick YET,it has hurt RG3. Gruden though thinks he is discipined enough to adjust his game and be effective as a pocket passer,so thats good enough for me and justification enough for me for them to take him as a number one pick.

I like Grudens analasysts of Manziel.He is thinking outside the box about him just like I am.The fact he ALSO thinks he compares favorably to Young and Farve AFTER I said the same thing its quite a good feeling seeing someone else out there who knows a little something abotu football who has the same agreements on me about this.

and he also isnt coming out saying anything nutty either like he has got to be a first year starter this year or anything like that.

 

[Papageorgio]

I wouldnt mind if they picked Khalil Mack.

I saw that predicted. Looks like an excellent choice. Manziel is a potential nightmare with some serious skills. Clowney has tons of talent but questionable work ethic, so he may be a bust too.

Mack looks like the real deal and would be an instant asset.

Im sure the atlanta falcons thought the same exact same thing when they made the worst mistake of their life trading away farve for some draft picks.that because of his recklessness and crazy improvisational skills,that he was a potential disaster waiting to happen. you know they were thinking that.They obvioulsy didnt see the greatness waiting in him and understand that he would mature later one.

I'm sure the Titans would like their Vince Young pick back. I also recall that Todd Marinovich, Ryan Leaf or in 1999, it went Tim Couch, Donavan McNabb and Akili Smith, 1, 2, 3. How about the can't miss QB Heath Schuller?

Sorry but Manziel is not a sure pick, two better picks on the defensive side of the ball I think have a better shot of impacting the team.






Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[WinterBorn]

I saw that predicted. Looks like an excellent choice. Manziel is a potential nightmare with some serious skills. Clowney has tons of talent but questionable work ethic, so he may be a bust too.

Mack looks like the real deal and would be an instant asset.

Im sure the atlanta falcons thought the same exact same thing when they made the worst mistake of their life trading away farve for some draft picks.that because of his recklessness and crazy improvisational skills,that he was a potential disaster waiting to happen. you know they were thinking that.They obvioulsy didnt see the greatness waiting in him and understand that he would mature later one.

I'm sure the Titans would like their Vince Young pick back. I also recall that Todd Marinovich, Ryan Leaf or in 1999, it went Tim Couch, Donavan McNabb and Akili Smith, 1, 2, 3. How about the can't miss QB Heath Schuller?

Sorry but Manziel is not a sure pick, two better picks on the defensive side of the ball I think have a better shot of impacting the team.






Sent from my iPad using an Android.

And a great defense is what wins championships.

Look at the most recent Super Bowl. Peyton Manning is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. But the defense he faced stopped him.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Im sure the atlanta falcons thought the same exact same thing when they made the worst mistake of their life trading away farve for some draft picks.that because of his recklessness and crazy improvisational skills,that he was a potential disaster waiting to happen. you know they were thinking that.They obvioulsy didnt see the greatness waiting in him and understand that he would mature later one.

I'm sure the Titans would like their Vince Young pick back. I also recall that Todd Marinovich, Ryan Leaf or in 1999, it went Tim Couch, Donavan McNabb and Akili Smith, 1, 2, 3. How about the can't miss QB Heath Schuller?

Sorry but Manziel is not a sure pick, two better picks on the defensive side of the ball I think have a better shot of impacting the team.






Sent from my iPad using an Android.

And a great defense is what wins championships.



Look at the most recent Super Bowl. Peyton Manning is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. But the defense he faced stopped him.

thats an unfair comparison using manning as an example.a guy who panicks and gets scared when he plays in big games like a deer with the headlights on him in the middle of the road.


It ONLY wins championships though if you have a reliable clutch quarterback to go along WITH IT.just ask the bears when they had rex grossman,or the steelers when they had kordell stewart and neil o'donnel,or the chiefs when they had steve bonehead and elvis garbage in 95 and 97 when they had the most fearsome defense in the league both those years..it can take you as far as the playoffs and to the superbowl if your lucky like the bears were or if you have great coaching like the steelers did with cowher,but to WIN the whole thing at the big dance,if you dont have a quarterback who can make some great plays and make clutch throws in key crucial situatuions,you can forget about winning the whole thing at the big dance.

and dont forget the superbowls with Eli manning,the opposite manning who actually remains calm and plays well under pressure in the big game.without his clutch throw he made under pressure on 4th and 10 against the pats in the superbowl late in the game during the 4th quarter and their last chance to do something on offense,and also the one on 3rd and long in his own territory in the next superbowl against them,having a great defense but not a quarterback who makes clutch throws under pressure would have only taken the giants so far that year.without ELIA'S excellent improvisation skills in those big games,the giants go home unhappy both times not winning at the big dance either time.

you can always build a team around a quarterback as the cowboys did with aikman and the colts with manning,much harder to do to WIN a superbowl championship with just an excellent defense but a lousy QB though.the steeler players remember it all too well with neil bonhead o donnel and kordell flash in the pan stewart.

think the seahawks go to the superbowl last year with tavarious jackson at quarterback with wilson out for just a few games like 3 or 4? if you do,then I have some property in russia I want to sell you.

Look at the seahawks,where they were before wilson got there.Carrol had built a defense that could get them to the big dance and was ready to get there after his second season there.But he knew as long as he had jackson as his starter,they would never go anywhere.they couldnt even mount a winning season with him which is why they traded for matt flynn,they then got very fortunate drafting wilson who was the missing piece in the puzzle. as i have said a million times before here,when was the last time a quarterback was drsafted in the late round and turned out to be a great QB before wilson? tom brady.why do i have to keep on repeating that over and over?

speaking of brady,there another example that just helps my case.Look at what happened to Belecheat his first season there in boston when drew bledsoe was his quarterback.a losing season.Tom Brady comes in the next year out of nowhere and with pretty much all the same players from the year before,transforms that team into a superbowl winner.

sure draft clowney and HOPE TJ Yate or whatever his name is,turns them around? good luck on that.

 

[Papageorgio]

Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler.

These guys aren't world class QB's, they all won Super Bowls, defense was the difference.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Im starting to thinkt eh texans are wising up that they are going to take johnny football because the GM is saying they dont want to make the same mistake of taking a QB high in the draft and starting him immediately his first season.why else even bring that up if they are not going to use that 1st round pick for johnny?