Testing people when they are young to determine what field they are best suited for

[WinterBorn]

View attachment 168722

That ties into the point I'm making. No one would be allowed to major in anything that is deemed impractical, as those fields would be viewed as cancerous to society. If they want to study garbage, they can do that on their own time and money. We should completely defund the arts and humanities. The individual in that picture named Mark would have been told from the time he was 5 that he would be going to a tech school and majoring in whatever it was he eventually majored in and his situation likely would not change. Megan, however, would have been told from the time she was 5 that she would be studying a practical field like Nursing, Accounting, Teacher, or whatever her abilities suggested. Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be. This is assuming she did not choose to get married and be a housewife.

"Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be"??? I think you are being redundant here. The only place a system like that is in effect is where the gov't IS the employer for everyone.

And, of course, you get to choose what is impractical?

Nice of you to want to surrender basic freedoms. But not just yours, everyone elses too.

 

[RandomPoster]

View attachment 168722

That ties into the point I'm making. No one would be allowed to major in anything that is deemed impractical, as those fields would be viewed as cancerous to society. If they want to study garbage, they can do that on their own time and money. We should completely defund the arts and humanities. The individual in that picture named Mark would have been told from the time he was 5 that he would be going to a tech school and majoring in whatever it was he eventually majored in and his situation likely would not change. Megan, however, would have been told from the time she was 5 that she would be studying a practical field like Nursing, Accounting, Teacher, or whatever her abilities suggested. Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be. This is assuming she did not choose to get married and be a housewife.

"Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be"??? I think you are being redundant here. The only place a system like that is in effect is where the gov't IS the employer for everyone.

And, of course, you get to choose what is impractical?

Nice of you to want to surrender basic freedoms. But not just yours, everyone elses too.

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. We already had a solution to people with psychological problems that was not that expensive. They're called mental institutions. No one needs to go to college unless they are going to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, mathematician, engineer, etc. For example, elementary and high school teachers should not have to go to college. My brother and his wife are both High School dropouts and they homeschooled all of their kids. All the kids scored at least in the top 15% on the SAT. Some did much better than that and all have done well in life. Our modern educational system is shit because of the lack of discipline. A teacher I had when I was younger got fired because he picked a kid up by his hair and started slamming his head into the wall. No one gives a shit about the fact that the kid was mouthing off. He was a good teacher too. If I had talked to a teacher like that when I was a kid, when I got home my dad would have taken all 6 of us boys, beat us with a belt, and made us all carry piles of wood from one side of the yard to the other all night until we went to bed. In our school system, if a kid actually does get punished, it is as an individual. They should paddle the entire classroom. If one member of the group screws up, the whole group suffers.

Authority must break the individual's spirit. That spirit of defiance is the source of societal strife and impedes the progress of civilization.

 

[OldLady]

Imagine if we start testing children at a very young age to see what fields they are most talented for. If we do this before they start developing interests of their own, we can put them into the correct program and they will become interested in it on their own because they will simply accept it from the beginning.

We had "tracking"; however, it was so controversial due to the large number of one race or another being "tracked" into a particular field. Even though those days are gone, that history has made people in congress fearful of making changes or even admitting that not all kids are college bound.

I think the "YOu have to go to college to be successful" mindset has been very damaging to our education system. But the number of kids entering 4 year colleges was one of the ways we determined the "success" of many public schools.

I think we should bring back Trade Schools or Vocational Schools. Many kids would be far better served by learning a skill that will actually make them a living.

In NY state, my granddaughter's very good public school system will allow her to graduate high school with an entry level nursing license--either LPN or CNA, I'm not sure. She will be able to get a job on day one out the door and hopefully get in with an employer who will help with tuition when she goes on for her RN (if she actually decides she wants to continue in the field).
Where I live, they don't invest in that kind of comprehensive vocational training opportunities for high school students. There are small training programs for traditional vocations like culinary arts and construction, but nothing that actually ensures a steady entry level job when they graduate. Vocational training around here is for the kids who won't or can't achieve academically. That is not how it should be viewed.

 

[Unkotare]

There are long wait lists for many voc schools.

 

[OldLady]

There are long wait lists for many voc schools.

Not in NY; it's part of the public education system (BOCES). They are taxed through the nose in NY but they have a quality education system, so at least some of those pennies are being used wisely.

 

[WinterBorn]

View attachment 168722

That ties into the point I'm making. No one would be allowed to major in anything that is deemed impractical, as those fields would be viewed as cancerous to society. If they want to study garbage, they can do that on their own time and money. We should completely defund the arts and humanities. The individual in that picture named Mark would have been told from the time he was 5 that he would be going to a tech school and majoring in whatever it was he eventually majored in and his situation likely would not change. Megan, however, would have been told from the time she was 5 that she would be studying a practical field like Nursing, Accounting, Teacher, or whatever her abilities suggested. Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be. This is assuming she did not choose to get married and be a housewife.

"Also, her employer and the government would determine when she would have a child and who the biological father would be"??? I think you are being redundant here. The only place a system like that is in effect is where the gov't IS the employer for everyone.

And, of course, you get to choose what is impractical?

Nice of you to want to surrender basic freedoms. But not just yours, everyone elses too.

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. We already had a solution to people with psychological problems that was not that expensive. They're called mental institutions. No one needs to go to college unless they are going to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, mathematician, engineer, etc. For example, elementary and high school teachers should not have to go to college. My brother and his wife are both High School dropouts and they homeschooled all of their kids. All the kids scored at least in the top 15% on the SAT. Some did much better than that and all have done well in life. Our modern educational system is shit because of the lack of discipline. A teacher I had when I was younger got fired because he picked a kid up by his hair and started slamming his head into the wall. No one gives a shit about the fact that the kid was mouthing off. He was a good teacher too. If I had talked to a teacher like that when I was a kid, when I got home my dad would have taken all 6 of us boys, beat us with a belt, and made us all carry piles of wood from one side of the yard to the other all night until we went to bed. In our school system, if a kid actually does get punished, it is as an individual. They should paddle the entire classroom. If one member of the group screws up, the whole group suffers.

Authority must break the individual's spirit. That spirit of defiance is the source of societal strife and impedes the progress of civilization.

I understand that you want to mindlessly follow authority figures. Feel free to do so. But living in a society like you describe sounds like Hell to me.

And if you think giving up our freedoms and having our spirits broken is "progress" for civilization, I would question your idea of progress.

 

[Moonglow]

The Communists do that.

Did it.

He's 214, independent message board Baron do not correct or interrupt..

 

[Unkotare]

....

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. ....

Analysis | Why we still need to study the humanities in a STEM world


Don’t Panic, Liberal Arts Majors. The Tech World Wants You.


Liberal Arts Majors Are the Future of the Tech Industry

 

[Disir]

Imagine if we start testing children at a very young age to see what fields they are most talented for. If we do this before they start developing interests of their own, we can put them into the correct program and they will become interested in it on their own because they will simply accept it from the beginning.

We had "tracking"; however, it was so controversial due to the large number of one race or another being "tracked" into a particular field. Even though those days are gone, that history has made people in congress fearful of making changes or even admitting that not all kids are college bound.

I think the "YOu have to go to college to be successful" mindset has been very damaging to our education system. But the number of kids entering 4 year colleges was one of the ways we determined the "success" of many public schools.

I think we should bring back Trade Schools or Vocational Schools. Many kids would be far better served by learning a skill that will actually make them a living.

In NY state, my granddaughter's very good public school system will allow her to graduate high school with an entry level nursing license--either LPN or CNA, I'm not sure. She will be able to get a job on day one out the door and hopefully get in with an employer who will help with tuition when she goes on for her RN (if she actually decides she wants to continue in the field).
Where I live, they don't invest in that kind of comprehensive vocational training opportunities for high school students. There are small training programs for traditional vocations like culinary arts and construction, but nothing that actually ensures a steady entry level job when they graduate. Vocational training around here is for the kids who won't or can't achieve academically. That is not how it should be viewed.

Several years ago I came across a vocational school in a New York high school that taught kids how to restore old buildings like say- Art Deco and older. IDK if I could find it again. But, it was brilliant because it was training kids in an area that is overlooked nationally.

 

[RandomPoster]

....

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. ....

Analysis | Why we still need to study the humanities in a STEM world


Don’t Panic, Liberal Arts Majors. The Tech World Wants You.


Liberal Arts Majors Are the Future of the Tech Industry

In 2015, there were 348,669 applicants for the H-1B filed of which 275,317 were approved. Why are they almost all STEM workers? Why is there not a corresponding program to flood us with liberal arts majors? Everybody I've known who was displaced by foreign workers from a country where the average family income is a tiny fraction of what it is here worked with technology.

In my entry level Computer Science courses, there were aboout a dozen students in the class and they dropped out at an alarming rate. In some of the liberal arts courses, there were over a hundred people and very few dropped out. Problem solving in the liberal arts courses? Give me break. Besides the fact that it promotes societal strife and reduces unity in our nation, it is about rotely memorizing a few buzzwords and regurgitating some politically correct terminology. There was way more creativity involved and way more actual solving of problems in the math and science courses. They changed my major from Computer Science to Information Technology because students were leaving because they are lazy. No one wants to stay awake for three days straight brainstorming to come up with better and better solutions on your own, coding them up yourself, and testing them. No one wants to lock themselves away from the entire world and obsess over a problem day after day until they solve it. Find the most optimal variation of this algorithm in the context of the following situation. Are you sure you tested it thorughly? Is there a bug you might have missed that only occurs under extremely rare and specific conditions? Are you sure there isn't a more efficient version? The liberal arts courses I took had absolutely nothing on the STEM courses when it came to having to grasp concepts and apply them with good logical reasoning ability to solve problems. Problem solving is the ultimate measure of human creativity and requires more critical thinking than any other human endeavor. It is the purpose of humanity. It is our destiny to build ever greater and more technologically advanced wonders. That defines the human race and is the measure of the greatness of a nation. Art is a frivolous endeavor. The pinnacle of human ingenuity and the most glorious creation of mankind is the military industrial complex.

We need to defund education that is not advancing us technologically. I could understand minoring in an Arts and Humanities field if it promoted national unity and idealism. It must glorify our nation and instill pride. We must overtake every other country on earth to ensure our share of the world's land and resources for our nation, our people. By the way, the last part is about Nationalism, not racism.

A quote from one of those articles:

"Novels can also help us develop empathy."

I need to empathize with abstract concepts in order to logically manipualte them and get work done? Our education system is not for teaching empathy. That is stuff we can do outside of school and has nothing to do with problem solving.

 

[Unkotare]

Some posts here illustrate well why classical education is still needed.

 

[HenryBHough]

Probably be better to stop indoctrinating and go back ro educating.

 

[Unkotare]

....

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. ....

Analysis | Why we still need to study the humanities in a STEM world


Don’t Panic, Liberal Arts Majors. The Tech World Wants You.


Liberal Arts Majors Are the Future of the Tech Industry

,

 

[WinterBorn]

....

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. ....

Analysis | Why we still need to study the humanities in a STEM world


Don’t Panic, Liberal Arts Majors. The Tech World Wants You.


Liberal Arts Majors Are the Future of the Tech Industry

In 2015, there were 348,669 applicants for the H-1B filed of which 275,317 were approved. Why are they almost all STEM workers? Why is there not a corresponding program to flood us with liberal arts majors? Everybody I've known who was displaced by foreign workers from a country where the average family income is a tiny fraction of what it is here worked with technology.

In my entry level Computer Science courses, there were aboout a dozen students in the class and they dropped out at an alarming rate. In some of the liberal arts courses, there were over a hundred people and very few dropped out. Problem solving in the liberal arts courses? Give me break. Besides the fact that it promotes societal strife and reduces unity in our nation, it is about rotely memorizing a few buzzwords and regurgitating some politically correct terminology. There was way more creativity involved and way more actual solving of problems in the math and science courses. They changed my major from Computer Science to Information Technology because students were leaving because they are lazy. No one wants to stay awake for three days straight brainstorming to come up with better and better solutions on your own, coding them up yourself, and testing them. No one wants to lock themselves away from the entire world and obsess over a problem day after day until they solve it. Find the most optimal variation of this algorithm in the context of the following situation. Are you sure you tested it thorughly? Is there a bug you might have missed that only occurs under extremely rare and specific conditions? Are you sure there isn't a more efficient version? The liberal arts courses I took had absolutely nothing on the STEM courses when it came to having to grasp concepts and apply them with good logical reasoning ability to solve problems. Problem solving is the ultimate measure of human creativity and requires more critical thinking than any other human endeavor. It is the purpose of humanity. It is our destiny to build ever greater and more technologically advanced wonders. That defines the human race and is the measure of the greatness of a nation. Art is a frivolous endeavor. The pinnacle of human ingenuity and the most glorious creation of mankind is the military industrial complex.

We need to defund education that is not advancing us technologically. I could understand minoring in an Arts and Humanities field if it promoted national unity and idealism. It must glorify our nation and instill pride. We must overtake every other country on earth to ensure our share of the world's land and resources for our nation, our people. By the way, the last part is about Nationalism, not racism.

A quote from one of those articles:

"Novels can also help us develop empathy."

I need to empathize with abstract concepts in order to logically manipualte them and get work done? Our education system is not for teaching empathy. That is stuff we can do outside of school and has nothing to do with problem solving.

YOu want the "nation" to be better by sacrificing the people. That is simply wrong. The people do not exist to serve the gov't. The gov't exists to serve the people. If someone chooses to be a liberal arts major, unless they end up on welfare, what does it matter to you? Those tech jobs that left this country did not do so because of liberal arts majors. It left because the profits went up by hiring people who will work for pennies compared to what trained tech people here will work for. It is the elites determining who succeeds and who fails based on THEIR profit margins. That is what happens when you hand complete control over to the authorities.

 

[RandomPoster]

....

We need to eliminate the arts and humanity and focus and technologically advancing. The Social Sciences also need to go. ....

Analysis | Why we still need to study the humanities in a STEM world


Don’t Panic, Liberal Arts Majors. The Tech World Wants You.


Liberal Arts Majors Are the Future of the Tech Industry

In 2015, there were 348,669 applicants for the H-1B filed of which 275,317 were approved. Why are they almost all STEM workers? Why is there not a corresponding program to flood us with liberal arts majors? Everybody I've known who was displaced by foreign workers from a country where the average family income is a tiny fraction of what it is here worked with technology.

In my entry level Computer Science courses, there were aboout a dozen students in the class and they dropped out at an alarming rate. In some of the liberal arts courses, there were over a hundred people and very few dropped out. Problem solving in the liberal arts courses? Give me break. Besides the fact that it promotes societal strife and reduces unity in our nation, it is about rotely memorizing a few buzzwords and regurgitating some politically correct terminology. There was way more creativity involved and way more actual solving of problems in the math and science courses. They changed my major from Computer Science to Information Technology because students were leaving because they are lazy. No one wants to stay awake for three days straight brainstorming to come up with better and better solutions on your own, coding them up yourself, and testing them. No one wants to lock themselves away from the entire world and obsess over a problem day after day until they solve it. Find the most optimal variation of this algorithm in the context of the following situation. Are you sure you tested it thorughly? Is there a bug you might have missed that only occurs under extremely rare and specific conditions? Are you sure there isn't a more efficient version? The liberal arts courses I took had absolutely nothing on the STEM courses when it came to having to grasp concepts and apply them with good logical reasoning ability to solve problems. Problem solving is the ultimate measure of human creativity and requires more critical thinking than any other human endeavor. It is the purpose of humanity. It is our destiny to build ever greater and more technologically advanced wonders. That defines the human race and is the measure of the greatness of a nation. Art is a frivolous endeavor. The pinnacle of human ingenuity and the most glorious creation of mankind is the military industrial complex.

We need to defund education that is not advancing us technologically. I could understand minoring in an Arts and Humanities field if it promoted national unity and idealism. It must glorify our nation and instill pride. We must overtake every other country on earth to ensure our share of the world's land and resources for our nation, our people. By the way, the last part is about Nationalism, not racism.

A quote from one of those articles:

"Novels can also help us develop empathy."

I need to empathize with abstract concepts in order to logically manipualte them and get work done? Our education system is not for teaching empathy. That is stuff we can do outside of school and has nothing to do with problem solving.

YOu want the "nation" to be better by sacrificing the people. That is simply wrong. The people do not exist to serve the gov't. The gov't exists to serve the people. If someone chooses to be a liberal arts major, unless they end up on welfare, what does it matter to you? Those tech jobs that left this country did not do so because of liberal arts majors. It left because the profits went up by hiring people who will work for pennies compared to what trained tech people here will work for. It is the elites determining who succeeds and who fails based on THEIR profit margins. That is what happens when you hand complete control over to the authorities.

The lack of graduates in certain fields contributes to outsourcing. Those liberal arts majors are not being encouraged to give STEM a try. If they did, they would be exposed to a world that would fascinate them. The nastiest and most destructive myth is that STEM is not for the "creative types". Nothing is further from the truth. I am amazed that when people talk about creative types of individuals, no one mentions inventors, scientists, engineers, mathematicians, etc. I personally consider inventors to be the most creative people in human history. These days, people with creative interests are being told that the arts and humanities are their only outlet. Those creative individuals are missing out on what may be their calling in life. Worse yet, society perpetuates a myth that there are "creative" individuals and "smart" individuals, when the two often go hand-in-hand. Creativity is THE inspiration that helps you find solutions to problems. Imagine if someone had looked at a young Thomas Edison's creativity and shoved a paint brush into his hands based on an assumption that he was one of the "creative" types instead of one of the "smart" types. They would not have been doing him or society a favor in my opinion. Given the massive number of students I saw in liberal arts classes and the small number of students I saw in STEM classes, I suspect this is happening.

If a large number of these "artists" were exposed to STEM, many would become the creative, hard working social recluse that retreats into a world of logical abstractions and maniacally obsesses over solving puzzles and problems. They would lose interests in having large numbers of acquaintances/friends and engaging in social activities and their lives would be changed for the better. Society would benefit from this immensely. STEM is being robbed of talent by the massive outpouring into such popular fields that are often divisive.

In short, the liberal arts majors do not lack intelligence and the STEM majors do not lack creativity. That myth is bullshit and it is honestly offensive.

 

[RandomPoster]

Another thing I would like to add to this thread is that I personally know several individuals that got vocational degrees and make at least 200,000 dollars a year. They paid their loans off very quickly and are doing very well. I personally quit college after two years even though I was doing well and actually enjoying it quite a bit because I like cashing paychecks more than I like paying tuition. Maybe I would be making more if I had gotten my degree and moved to a metropolitan area, except I do not regret it.

 

[Disir]

The lack of graduates in certain fields contributes to outsourcing.

No. That is a lie. What you do not have are people with STEM degrees willing to work for $2.50 an hour.

 

[RandomPoster]

The lack of graduates in certain fields contributes to outsourcing.

No. That is a lie. What you do not have are people with STEM degrees wiling to work for $2.50 an hour.

We do not want to have to count on others to solve our technical problems or defend us. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Disir]

The lack of graduates in certain fields contributes to outsourcing.

No. That is a lie. What you do not have are people with STEM degrees wiling to work for $2.50 an hour.

We do not want to have to count on others to solve our technical problems or defend us. That is a recipe for disaster.

Should have thought of that before outsourcing R&D, eh?

You have the people. Pay them.

 

[Unkotare]

....... These days, people with creative interests are being told that the arts and humanities are their only outlet. ....

No one is being told that.