Tesla is now most valuable auto maker in US

[rightwinger]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

You get towed. But then, if you run out of charge on the road you did not plan your trip or pay attention to the warnings the car gave you.

Makes sense if you are on the east coast and there are charging stations every ten miles
Driving out west, you are often 50 miles from the nearest gas station let alone a recharging station

 

[westwall]

Only assuming a doubling every 2 years for 10 years, which is usually a very hard rate to maintain. Their biggest issue is how large of a market they have for their higher end vehicles, and if they can get costs down to enter the middle market before they exhaust the higher one.

Another big question is how many people now have a Tesla AND an ICE car vs. how many people have only a Tesla. It's easy to deal with the charge times of an electric when you can fall back to an ICE vehicle when you need to. For people in more middle incomes, they may only have 1 car.

I don't see electrics taking over the 1 car family market until you can charge one as fast as you fill up a tank of gas.

The quick refuleing is one area where ICE come out ahead. Tesla created an automated battery swap system that could replace the entire battery load in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline engine Audi A8. But they have focused on the Supercharger stations instead of the battery swap stations. One of the big pluses to the Supercharger stations is that they are free for all Model S and Model X owners. You can get half a charge in about 30 mins. So on long trips you take a 30 min break every 150 to 170 miles. So long trips take a bit longer but cost a bit less.

Most people don't go over 250 miles in a day unless they are taking a trip. So this is not as big an issue as it seems.

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

I had a chance to drive a Model S last year, a very nice car. The performance was very good, and the fit and finish were far superior to the Roadster I had driven before. But, the range estimates they give are wildly optimistic. Figure you lose about 20% of the estimate right off the bat. That still leaves a useful range of 250 miles which for the normal person is fine for a couple of days driving. However, the cost for that is over what you would pay for a BMW M5.

That means you have a very small population of people who can afford to buy one as a SECOND car. Because it will ALWAYS be a second car.

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

You get towed. But then, if you run out of charge on the road you did not plan your trip or pay attention to the warnings the car gave you.

Makes sense if you are on the east coast and there are charging stations every ten miles
Driving out west, you are often 50 miles from the nearest gas station let alone a recharging station

And how many times have I said that long distance trips are more difficult?

How many days do you drive more than 250 miles?

 

[WinterBorn]

The quick refuleing is one area where ICE come out ahead. Tesla created an automated battery swap system that could replace the entire battery load in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline engine Audi A8. But they have focused on the Supercharger stations instead of the battery swap stations. One of the big pluses to the Supercharger stations is that they are free for all Model S and Model X owners. You can get half a charge in about 30 mins. So on long trips you take a 30 min break every 150 to 170 miles. So long trips take a bit longer but cost a bit less.

Most people don't go over 250 miles in a day unless they are taking a trip. So this is not as big an issue as it seems.

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

I had a chance to drive a Model S last year, a very nice car. The performance was very good, and the fit and finish were far superior to the Roadster I had driven before. But, the range estimates they give are wildly optimistic. Figure you lose about 20% of the estimate right off the bat. That still leaves a useful range of 250 miles which for the normal person is fine for a couple of days driving. However, the cost for that is over what you would pay for a BMW M5.

That means you have a very small population of people who can afford to buy one as a SECOND car. Because it will ALWAYS be a second car.

I can fill up a Tesla for $12. How far can you go in a BMW on $12?

I can see people renting a car for long trips. But the majority of people do not drive 250 miles in a normal day.

 

[westwall]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

Actually not true. Each one of those batteries has a connection, when they fail they fail catastrophically. That's why you were seeing the spontaneous combustion issue a while back. Also in an accident they are more prone to damage.

 

[westwall]

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

I had a chance to drive a Model S last year, a very nice car. The performance was very good, and the fit and finish were far superior to the Roadster I had driven before. But, the range estimates they give are wildly optimistic. Figure you lose about 20% of the estimate right off the bat. That still leaves a useful range of 250 miles which for the normal person is fine for a couple of days driving. However, the cost for that is over what you would pay for a BMW M5.

That means you have a very small population of people who can afford to buy one as a SECOND car. Because it will ALWAYS be a second car.

I can fill up a Tesla for $12. How far can you go in a BMW on $12?

I can see people renting a car for long trips. But the majority of people do not drive 250 miles in a normal day.

I think the best way to look at EV's is the racing world. That is where the technology is being pushed to the ultimate limits. A F1 race car can go the entire distance of a race, over 150 miles, on a single tank of unleaded gasoline. The Formula E cars actually have TWO cars, that they exchange at the midway point, and they only go half the distance, and the average speed is 2/3 to 3/5 of what it is for the F1 cars.

Isle of Man TT electric goes 30 mph less than the full race bikes, do ONE lap as opposed to six (granted the ICE powered bikes refuel at two lap intervals, but that is to change the rear tire, they can go more than half way on a single tank of fuel) and cost ten times as much as the full race bikes.

THAT is the standard I pay attention to. That is MEASURED, not estimated. We know exactly what they can and can't do.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Tesla just became the most valuable carmaker in America


Some people are dragged into the future and some people drag all of humanity forward. Elon Musk has a gigantic rope and is pulling the world into the 22nd century.

Tesla was founded in 2003 and has already overtaken GM in the US and is close to overtaking Honda in the world. Next on to Toyota.

The fine print from your article.

esla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."

So the valuation is not held to the same standards as the major manufacturers. Where is the direct comparison?

As I stated in another post, most of that valuation is probably due to speculation investments in the company, which doesn't give an indication of the companies current fiscal strength.

The Major auto companies valuation is a hard one, based on assets and short term sales numbers. Tesla's is based on maybe electric cars becoming the norm sometime in the next 2-3 decades.

Hard numbers : Tesla's sales were above 7b in 2016. It seems peanuts compared to GM 166b... until you notice Tesla's sales are doubling every two years. That still means the time in which Tesla's revenues match GM's are ten years in the future.

Only assuming a doubling every 2 years for 10 years, which is usually a very hard rate to maintain. Their biggest issue is how large of a market they have for their higher end vehicles, and if they can get costs down to enter the middle market before they exhaust the higher one.

Another big question is how many people now have a Tesla AND an ICE car vs. how many people have only a Tesla. It's easy to deal with the charge times of an electric when you can fall back to an ICE vehicle when you need to. For people in more middle incomes, they may only have 1 car.

I don't see electrics taking over the 1 car family market until you can charge one as fast as you fill up a tank of gas.

The model 3 has a target price of 35,00. That's still a high end vehicle but affordable, specially if you consider gas savings.

Tesla has now more than 224 supercharger stations and 1122 charging stations. Think of it: it can sell you both the car and... the electricity. It's an impressive business strategy

Tesla built 858 new public charging stations in the U.S. over the past 12 months

 

[CultureCitizen]

Tesla just became the most valuable carmaker in America


Some people are dragged into the future and some people drag all of humanity forward. Elon Musk has a gigantic rope and is pulling the world into the 22nd century.

Tesla was founded in 2003 and has already overtaken GM in the US and is close to overtaking Honda in the world. Next on to Toyota.

Which is more a testament to propaganda than actual merit. TESLA has never turned a profit, produces a few thousand cars a year (and I believe they have yet to actually make goal for a year) and is the best example of the "greater fool" system of investing than any other company on the planet.

Amazon didn't produce profits for many years. And now it is a retail powerhouse. Profits are not the main indicator in a company whose revenues double every two years.

For a manufacturer it sure as hell is. TESLA is to cars, what the various fraudulent gold mines on the Vancouver exchange, were gold mining.

Manufacturer? Yes , shure , they build car, but they are also in the energy distribution business.

 

[CultureCitizen]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

Again , consider Tesla is not only a manufacturer but it is also in the energy distribution ( and to some extent production ) business.

 

[westwall]

Tesla just became the most valuable carmaker in America


Some people are dragged into the future and some people drag all of humanity forward. Elon Musk has a gigantic rope and is pulling the world into the 22nd century.

Tesla was founded in 2003 and has already overtaken GM in the US and is close to overtaking Honda in the world. Next on to Toyota.

Which is more a testament to propaganda than actual merit. TESLA has never turned a profit, produces a few thousand cars a year (and I believe they have yet to actually make goal for a year) and is the best example of the "greater fool" system of investing than any other company on the planet.

Amazon didn't produce profits for many years. And now it is a retail powerhouse. Profits are not the main indicator in a company whose revenues double every two years.

For a manufacturer it sure as hell is. TESLA is to cars, what the various fraudulent gold mines on the Vancouver exchange, were gold mining.

Manufacturer? Yes , shure , they build car, but they are also in the energy distribution business.

Yeah, kind of like ENRON. How did that turn out again?

 

[westwall]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

Again , consider Tesla is not only a manufacturer but it is also in the energy distribution ( and to some extent production ) business.

Really? They are supposedly going to install a giant windfarm to power their battery facility up here in NV but I don't know of any power plants they own. Do tell.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

Tesla started an automated battery swap system a few years ago. It could replace the entire battery system faster than you could full up a regular car. The cost for that was $80. Not sure what the cost will be when the batteries wear out.

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

You get towed. But then, if you run out of charge on the road you did not plan your trip or pay attention to the warnings the car gave you.

Makes sense if you are on the east coast and there are charging stations every ten miles
Driving out west, you are often 50 miles from the nearest gas station let alone a recharging station

I finally seen my first one around here at a new Hilton, I am like WTF is that?


Lol

 

[CultureCitizen]

Tesla just became the most valuable carmaker in America


Some people are dragged into the future and some people drag all of humanity forward. Elon Musk has a gigantic rope and is pulling the world into the 22nd century.

Tesla was founded in 2003 and has already overtaken GM in the US and is close to overtaking Honda in the world. Next on to Toyota.

Which is more a testament to propaganda than actual merit. TESLA has never turned a profit, produces a few thousand cars a year (and I believe they have yet to actually make goal for a year) and is the best example of the "greater fool" system of investing than any other company on the planet.

Amazon didn't produce profits for many years. And now it is a retail powerhouse. Profits are not the main indicator in a company whose revenues double every two years.

For a manufacturer it sure as hell is. TESLA is to cars, what the various fraudulent gold mines on the Vancouver exchange, were gold mining.

Manufacturer? Yes , shure , they build car, but they are also in the energy distribution business.

Yeah, kind of like ENRON. How did that turn out again?

Or Pacific gas and Electric, Souther California Edison , Consolidated Edison... what is your point ?

 

[CultureCitizen]

The electric-car maker hit a market value of $50.84 billion on Monday, edging past GM (GM) at $50.79 billion.

Tesla loses money, and it sells a small fraction of the cars of its much older competitors. Tesla sold about 25,000 of its Model S and Model X cars in the first three months of the year, compared with 690,000 cars and trucks for GM and 617,000 for Ford in the United States alone.

Rebecca Lindland, executive analyst at Kelley Blue Book, says Tesla is being treated differently than other carmakers. "They're classified as a tech company," she told CNNMoney, "so they're not really held to the same standards."

She adds that while Wall Street focuses on more traditional criteria -- like profitability -- for established companies like Ford and GM, "Tesla kind of gets a free pass."


Idiot investors

Again , consider Tesla is not only a manufacturer but it is also in the energy distribution ( and to some extent production ) business.

That would be the Solar City part, they lease the solar panels and eventually they can buy back extra energy produced by panel owners.



Really? They are supposedly going to install a giant windfarm to power their battery facility up here in NV but I don't know of any power plants they own. Do tell.

That would be the Solar City branch, that sales the solar panels and bateries... why else construct the gigafactory ?

 

[IsaacNewton]

"The problems of the world cannot possibly
be solved by skeptics or cynics
whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities.
We need men who can dream of things that never were."
- John F. Kennedy -

"If your actions inspire others to dream more,
learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader."
- John Quincy Adams -

"We must learn to reawaken and keep ourselves awake,
not by mechanical aid, but by
an infinite expectation of the dawn."
- Henry David Thoreau -

“The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it.”
- Elbert Hubbard -

“Give me but a firm spot on which to stand, and I shall move the earth.”
- Archimedes -

“Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.”
- Rosa Luxemburg -

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
- Buckminster Fuller -

“When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it ....”
- Henry Ford -

 

[WinterBorn]

There is also the space shuttle-like technology in the Tesla. When my friend went to take a test drive, they suggested he bring someone with him as a ride along. I jumped at the chance (and did get to drive). During the intro, the technician was showing how to set the alarm for when you exceed the speed limit by whatever margin you select. My friend asked if they used Google Maps or something to getthe speed limits. Nope. They showed us a tiny camera mounted behind the inside rearview mirror. The car reads the speed limit signs, including the LED ones. The car READS SIGNS!. The cruise control (called Auto Pilot) will not only maintain speed, but steer and brake too. Tight parking in your garage? The Tesla will back out for you.

Oh, and scheduled maintenance? Figure that into your ICE vehicles. Other than tires and wiper blades, the Tesla needs almost no maintenance. Yes, Tesla recommends an annual maintenance check. But without valves, camshafts,a crankshaft, connecting rods, gears, clutches, ect, there is simply much much less to need maintenance on.

What is the expected lifespan on a Tesla?
100,000? 200,000? 300,000 miles?

How long do your batteries last and what is the cost to buy new ones and dispose of the old ones?
My only experience with electric vehicles was the Power Wheels I bought for my four year old. Once that little battery wore out, it cost almost as much as a new car to replace it

One other point, the Tesla Model S uses 6,800 small batteries, instead of one (or a few) big batteries. That makes the chance of a catastrophic failure (leaving you stranded) very remote.

What about roadside assistance?

If I run out of gas, someone can bring me a gallon

What happens if I run out of charge?

You get towed. But then, if you run out of charge on the road you did not plan your trip or pay attention to the warnings the car gave you.

Makes sense if you are on the east coast and there are charging stations every ten miles
Driving out west, you are often 50 miles from the nearest gas station let alone a recharging station

For 10 years I was the safety director for a major telecom construction & testing company. I averaged 5k to 6k miles a month. I never once ran out of gas. And yes, we worked a good bit in the SW.

 

[WinterBorn]

The quick refuleing is one area where ICE come out ahead. Tesla created an automated battery swap system that could replace the entire battery load in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline engine Audi A8. But they have focused on the Supercharger stations instead of the battery swap stations. One of the big pluses to the Supercharger stations is that they are free for all Model S and Model X owners. You can get half a charge in about 30 mins. So on long trips you take a 30 min break every 150 to 170 miles. So long trips take a bit longer but cost a bit less.

Most people don't go over 250 miles in a day unless they are taking a trip. So this is not as big an issue as it seems.

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

I had a chance to drive a Model S last year, a very nice car. The performance was very good, and the fit and finish were far superior to the Roadster I had driven before. But, the range estimates they give are wildly optimistic. Figure you lose about 20% of the estimate right off the bat. That still leaves a useful range of 250 miles which for the normal person is fine for a couple of days driving. However, the cost for that is over what you would pay for a BMW M5.

That means you have a very small population of people who can afford to buy one as a SECOND car. Because it will ALWAYS be a second car.

Aren't all high end cars a niche market? And other than vacations, the Tesla will do fine as the daily driver.

 

[rightwinger]

AutoNation CEO: Tesla is a 'Ponzi scheme' or it'll 'work out'

 

[rightwinger]

1/2 a charge in 30 minutes isn't going to cut it for most people, but I assume they will figure out a way to drive that down.

I think most people don't drive more than 250 miles in a day, unless on vacation.

The problem is range is less than 250 miles if ancillary systems need to be used. Someone in Florida doesn't have to worry about the battery being drained due to the use of a heater, but someone in Wisconsin in February sure as hell has to. Without an ICE you lose that free heat, and have to rely on electric heat, which can dig into the battery life considerably.

The current Model S gets an estimated 337 to 350 miles on a charge. Yes, the cold weather and use of heat will cut that back a bit, but you should still be able to get 250 miles on a charge.

And as far as longer trips, it is still not a huge deal. We go to St Augustine (from Atlanta) every year for a long weekend. It is about 400 miles away and takes around 6 hours to get there in our Honda CRV. Getting 25 mpg, and with gas costing $2.38 a gal, we are spending $38.08 for the gas to get there. With a Tesla we would take 7 hrs to get there and spend nothing on fuel. When we got, we always stop at least once for gas and food. So the difference in travel time is less than you think, and the cost savings are more.

On the same trip in a vehicle that gets 20MPG, you spend $47.60 on fuel.

When gas costs $3.25 a gal, the trip (one way) will cost $52 for the 25mpg car and $65 for the 20mpg car.

I had a chance to drive a Model S last year, a very nice car. The performance was very good, and the fit and finish were far superior to the Roadster I had driven before. But, the range estimates they give are wildly optimistic. Figure you lose about 20% of the estimate right off the bat. That still leaves a useful range of 250 miles which for the normal person is fine for a couple of days driving. However, the cost for that is over what you would pay for a BMW M5.

That means you have a very small population of people who can afford to buy one as a SECOND car. Because it will ALWAYS be a second car.

Aren't all high end cars a niche market? And other than vacations, the Tesla will do fine as the daily driver.

Tesla is a cool car...I'd love to own one

I just question them being called the most valuable car company. By any rational measure of value...they are not even close

 

[westwall]

Which is more a testament to propaganda than actual merit. TESLA has never turned a profit, produces a few thousand cars a year (and I believe they have yet to actually make goal for a year) and is the best example of the "greater fool" system of investing than any other company on the planet.

Amazon didn't produce profits for many years. And now it is a retail powerhouse. Profits are not the main indicator in a company whose revenues double every two years.

For a manufacturer it sure as hell is. TESLA is to cars, what the various fraudulent gold mines on the Vancouver exchange, were gold mining.

Manufacturer? Yes , shure , they build car, but they are also in the energy distribution business.

Yeah, kind of like ENRON. How did that turn out again?

Or Pacific gas and Electric, Souther California Edison , Consolidated Edison... what is your point ?

PG&E, SCE, and Con Ed all CREATE energy. ENRON was a "distribution" company. So, once again I ask you, how did that turn out?