Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

[Tilly]

Every child in an American school has the right NOT to celebrate traditional American holidays.

However, every American school receiving taxpayer funding should celebrate traditional American holidays, no question. If someone is offended, they can go to chaperoned study in the cafeteria.

Why not just keep religion at home?

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

So you would also be all for telling muslim school girls they cannot wear their head scarves to school?

Not necessarily. I don't think religion has a place in school, but have no problem with kids turning up wearing crosses, head scarfs and other such stuff. No matter how much I think wearing head scarfs is ridiculous in the modern world.

Well that is bringing religion right into school.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Every child in an American school has the right NOT to celebrate traditional American holidays.

However, every American school receiving taxpayer funding should celebrate traditional American holidays, no question. If someone is offended, they can go to chaperoned study in the cafeteria.

Why not just keep religion at home?

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

Slavery and segregation were heinous and disgusting. 'Merry Christmas '. Christmas trees, nativity scenes and Christmas carols really don't compare.

Then again it's about fundamental principles, and this was the point I was making. But then, like I said, some people react to things, rather than follow principles.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why not just keep religion at home?

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

So you would also be all for telling muslim school girls they cannot wear their head scarves to school?

Not necessarily. I don't think religion has a place in school, but have no problem with kids turning up wearing crosses, head scarfs and other such stuff. No matter how much I think wearing head scarfs is ridiculous in the modern world.

Well that is bringing religion right into school.

It's not the school bringing religion into school. Kids and parents can make their own choices based on this. Schools should not impose religion on people.

 

[Tilly]

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

"pseudo religion of a warmongerer", isn't Christianity a religion of war? Christianity teaches that you can sin and sin and sin, then go to church on a Sunday and everything will be okay again.

Just because people don't go to war in the name of Christianity like they do in Islam, doesn't mean that the religion doesn't play a big part.

If Dubya had been a Buddhist, would he have gone to war in Iraq? Probably not.

Fairy nuff.
But at the moment we are dealing with the Islamist threat, and harking back to Chritianities past is really not very useful. And before you say our former leaders were Christians, that was actually beside the point, they didn't act to further Christianity whatever nonsense issued forth from their silly mouths. We are facing jihad now, on a global scale, and that is all about the forceful submission and eradication of non Muslims. That's what we are dealing with, and that's where we need to focus. The jihadis adore all the handwringing libs who are undermining their own societies, cultures and doing half their job for them. Wake up and put aside the stuff that is dividing people who should be standing shoulder to shoulder, until later.

What is the threat right now?

An Islamic threat? Really? No. It's an extremist Islamic threat.

Harking back to the past IS USEFUL. Read my post 246 a few above this one about fundamental principles. History is a great way of testing your fundamental principles.

Facing Jihad, and doing it BADLY because people ignore the reasons for Jihad and are pretending (and I'm being serious) that it's the same as the Cold War. It's not. And if you make the wrong analysis of the problem, you'll make the wrong solution to the problem.

You really need to familiarise yourself with Islamic history, from its inception, and understand that Islam is not essentially a religion. Then you might be able to understand its aims better. Isis is just one of the most recent manifestation of Islams totalitarian political theocratic system. You need to stop looking at it through rose tinted western liberal / rational glasses, you have no hope of understanding it that way. I can't and won't do it for you, but I really wish you were able to put aside what you think you know and study it afresh, having thrown out the libtard stuff you've been brainwashed into believing. I know that's quite rude, but what can I say to someone who is determined to remain blinkered on this matter?

 

[Tilly]

Only right-wingers? Really? Looked in a mirror lately?

Did I say "only right wingers"????

You certainly did not include left-wingers.

So let's look at the facts. I said "which you can see exists massively with right wingers".

I did not mention left wingers. I also didn't mention the Red Sox, nor did I mention Buffalo, nor did I mention the moon. Does this mean that I excluded all of these things? No.

So, let's stick to WHAT I SAID and not go around making pointless statements that are based on nothing other than your desire to read things into what I actually said.

You need to afford other posters that which you demand for yourself, too.

So, where do I go round making stuff up about what people didn't say?

Well you've attributed thoughts to myself and others at times, thoughts that we don't have.

 

[Tilly]

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

"pseudo religion of a warmongerer", isn't Christianity a religion of war? Christianity teaches that you can sin and sin and sin, then go to church on a Sunday and everything will be okay again.

Just because people don't go to war in the name of Christianity like they do in Islam, doesn't mean that the religion doesn't play a big part.

If Dubya had been a Buddhist, would he have gone to war in Iraq? Probably not.

Actually, Buddhists can be quite violent when required. Look that up if you don't believe me.

I know. I didn't say Buddhists were never violent. I said that if Bush were Buddhist, there'd be LESS of a chance of him invading Iraq.

Not necessarily. That's just a guess.

 

[Tilly]

I promise you I am aware of the history of the missionaries and what I consider to be a complete deviation from the New Testament and from Jesus' message, and I'm not exactly happy about it. But that is not the world we live in now. I tend to think about what is happening in the here and now, and that's how I decide what I want for children. I won't ever change my mind about it being better for children to be exposed to Jesus, than say, Mohammed, and these are brief periods in the school year. I really wish people would stop getting so worked up and trying to change everything, and I'm sick and tired of the attacks on Christianity when those doing the attacking give Islam a free pass. It's nauseating.

Mohammed isn't the world we live in now either.

I'm not sure whether you're wilfully wrong or just plain stupid wrong. You need to read the Quran and haditha. You need to understand it is impossible for Islam to have any kind of reformation. You need to understand that Mohammed was a warmonger and that all Muslims are compelled to emulate him. You need to understand that his teachings have no place in any school outside of the madrasah in Pakistan or Saudi.

I disagree. Religion is what people make of it. It's never going to be set in stone. I could read the Bible and say EXACTLY the same thing you're saying about Islam.

I've known plenty of Muslims, I've been to various Muslim countries, and they didn't all follow the Koran to the word and kill all infidels and so on. The Koran says a lot of stuff, like the Bible, that is just plain contradictory.

The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

"
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah ." 8:61

So, the Koran states that if your enemies are inclined to peace, you should too.

"
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 8:69

This part basically reads like this. If you **** with us, we will **** you over. If you are nice to us, we will be nice back.

Do you think anyone disagrees with this? Do you not see that what the US did after 9/11 going after bin Laden in Afghanistan was exactly this, and most Americans agreed with this action, yet hate Muslims for having THE SAME ATTITUDE.

I truly can't be bothere to get into a sura war with you, and then put your suras into the actual context, and then look at how abrogation affects the 'decent' suras, but you still seem to be missing the point. Yes, religion can be what people make of it, but the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and can never, never be changed. They can have no reformation, and the problem of its followers deciding if and when to follow it properly can never go away. Isis are the real devout Muslims. And that's a fact. Read the words of leaders like Erdogan and the great many imans who keep telling us, if only we'd listen, there is only one Islam, and there is no moderate Islam, in fact the very idea of the moderate Muslim is deeply insulting and is an invention of the west. I urge you to read the Quran and maybe then you will understand why I do not want Islam in schools.

What you don't seem to realise is that the "word of Allah" is contradictory, and people will take what they want to take out of it.

Well, this is where you don't seem to be paying attention. Why do you think I mentioned context and abrogation and the fact that the Quran is not organised chronologically? You think Muslims don't know this? It's the dhimmi's that don't get these rather important aspects.

 

[Tilly]

It's at Christmas and Easter. I think you are seriously underestimating children's ability to 'cope' with this terrifying abuse.

To cope with? Children can cope with a lot, many children "cope with" bullying, doesn't make it right.

I'm really not sure why you keep bringing up bullying in this context. There is no bullying here. Lol.

I bring up bullying because bullying exists for certain reasons. Sometimes it exits because people group together and attack those who are weaker, if they see minorities they might go after the minorities. You can see on this board that people will pick on people, they'll try to find out if they're a Muslim, a Jew, anything that makes them easy to pick on, and then they attack.

Schools saying to kids "you three, you're different, you go to another room", and you're making separation within schools that can lead to bullying, just like what happens on this board.

No, the school doesn't say that, it's the kids' parents or the kids who are 'offended' by traditions they don't like and don't wish to take part in.

I know. The point is that the are causing separation by having things that some kids won't want to participate in. Everything should be inclusive.

Well maybe, just maybe, everything cannot be inclusive. Some kids and their parents don't like the nativity? Well, Instead of ruining it for all the kids and parents who do like the nativity, who look forward to it ever year, who value it, just dont go to the nativity.

 

[feduptaxpayer]

Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

A Brooklyn principal is generating controversy for her removal of certain traditions at her school.

The New York Post reports that Eujin Kim of PS 169 has put an end to recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance as well as references to Santa Claus, Christmas, and Thanksgiving.

In fact, the latter terms are being broadly referred to as "winter celebrations" and the "harvest festival," respectively.

These new policies were reportedly communicated to staff in a memo that referred to students' diverse families and that "not all children celebrate the same holidays."

PTA officials were also notified of the changes, and the president has said they include a ban on stars which can have a religious association.


Oy. What's next? A ban on breathing?

(X)You can thank multiculturalism and political correctness for that bull chit removal crap of our traditions and culture. It's all about not offending other religions and cultures. To hell with ours, we must celebrate theirs. The President can light up the Jewish Menorrah on the White house lawn but no Christmas Tree light up allowed on the premises. This is what happens when white people don't and won't fight for their racial survival. They get chit on.

 

[Tilly]

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

So you would also be all for telling muslim school girls they cannot wear their head scarves to school?

Not necessarily. I don't think religion has a place in school, but have no problem with kids turning up wearing crosses, head scarfs and other such stuff. No matter how much I think wearing head scarfs is ridiculous in the modern world.

Well that is bringing religion right into school.

It's not the school bringing religion into school. Kids and parents can make their own choices based on this. Schools should not impose religion on people.

But a lot of parents love the nativity and even give their time contributing to its production. So, OK.

 

[Tilly]

Every child in an American school has the right NOT to celebrate traditional American holidays.

However, every American school receiving taxpayer funding should celebrate traditional American holidays, no question. If someone is offended, they can go to chaperoned study in the cafeteria.

Why not just keep religion at home?

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

Slavery and segregation were heinous and disgusting. 'Merry Christmas '. Christmas trees, nativity scenes and Christmas carols really don't compare.

Then again it's about fundamental principles, and this was the point I was making. But then, like I said, some people react to things, rather than follow principles.

You can follow principles down into a long dark alley, or you can understand where it's sensible to draw a line. Principles are not necessarily infinite nor omnipotent nor right when followed to extremes in all circumstances.

 

[Gracie]

Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

A Brooklyn principal is generating controversy for her removal of certain traditions at her school.

The New York Post reports that Eujin Kim of PS 169 has put an end to recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance as well as references to Santa Claus, Christmas, and Thanksgiving.

In fact, the latter terms are being broadly referred to as "winter celebrations" and the "harvest festival," respectively.

These new policies were reportedly communicated to staff in a memo that referred to students' diverse families and that "not all children celebrate the same holidays."

PTA officials were also notified of the changes, and the president has said they include a ban on stars which can have a religious association.


Oy. What's next? A ban on breathing?

(X)You can thank multiculturalism and political correctness for that bull chit removal crap of our traditions and culture. It's all about not offending other religions and cultures. To hell with ours, we must celebrate theirs. The President can light up the Jewish Menorrah on the White house lawn but no Christmas Tree light up allowed on the premises. This is what happens when white people don't and won't fight for their racial survival. They get chit on.

I was with ya until the last 2 sentences.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I know, I'm not saying Buddhism is all about peace. I'm saying that Buddhism would less likely go invade Iraq than Christianity. We're talking percentages here rather than absolutes.

Based on what? Your Magic 8 Ball?

 

[JimBowie1958]

 

[frigidweirdo]

Mohammed isn't the world we live in now either.

I'm not sure whether you're wilfully wrong or just plain stupid wrong. You need to read the Quran and haditha. You need to understand it is impossible for Islam to have any kind of reformation. You need to understand that Mohammed was a warmonger and that all Muslims are compelled to emulate him. You need to understand that his teachings have no place in any school outside of the madrasah in Pakistan or Saudi.

I disagree. Religion is what people make of it. It's never going to be set in stone. I could read the Bible and say EXACTLY the same thing you're saying about Islam.

I've known plenty of Muslims, I've been to various Muslim countries, and they didn't all follow the Koran to the word and kill all infidels and so on. The Koran says a lot of stuff, like the Bible, that is just plain contradictory.

The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

"
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah ." 8:61

So, the Koran states that if your enemies are inclined to peace, you should too.

"
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." 8:69

This part basically reads like this. If you **** with us, we will **** you over. If you are nice to us, we will be nice back.

Do you think anyone disagrees with this? Do you not see that what the US did after 9/11 going after bin Laden in Afghanistan was exactly this, and most Americans agreed with this action, yet hate Muslims for having THE SAME ATTITUDE.

I truly can't be bothere to get into a sura war with you, and then put your suras into the actual context, and then look at how abrogation affects the 'decent' suras, but you still seem to be missing the point. Yes, religion can be what people make of it, but the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and can never, never be changed. They can have no reformation, and the problem of its followers deciding if and when to follow it properly can never go away. Isis are the real devout Muslims. And that's a fact. Read the words of leaders like Erdogan and the great many imans who keep telling us, if only we'd listen, there is only one Islam, and there is no moderate Islam, in fact the very idea of the moderate Muslim is deeply insulting and is an invention of the west. I urge you to read the Quran and maybe then you will understand why I do not want Islam in schools.

What you don't seem to realise is that the "word of Allah" is contradictory, and people will take what they want to take out of it.

Why do you have some Christians who do good and others who invade Iraq? Most Muslims do good and not bad. Yet some use the Koran for bad and suddenly they're all bad.

You think ISIS represent all of Islam, I'm sorry for you. Maybe you need to meet some Muslims some time.

Sorry, I'm not seeing, reading, or hearing how muslims are condemning ISIS and other radical muslim thugs as "bad". What's the problem there?

The problem seems to be what you're seeing, reading and hearing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I know, I'm not saying Buddhism is all about peace. I'm saying that Buddhism would less likely go invade Iraq than Christianity. We're talking percentages here rather than absolutes.

Based on what? Your Magic 8 Ball?

No, based on logic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why not just keep religion at home?

Those things have become part of our culture

So, if it's become part of culture it's okay so don't change things? Like slavery was, great argument for keeping it, and segregation. "It's tradition".

Slavery and segregation were heinous and disgusting. 'Merry Christmas '. Christmas trees, nativity scenes and Christmas carols really don't compare.

Then again it's about fundamental principles, and this was the point I was making. But then, like I said, some people react to things, rather than follow principles.

You can follow principles down into a long dark alley, or you can understand where it's sensible to draw a line. Principles are not necessarily infinite nor omnipotent nor right when followed to extremes in all circumstances.

Principles aren't infinite if your principles are rubbish.

The problem is, most people don't have any principles to start with.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Dept of Education: Remove Eujin Jaela Kim as principle of PS169

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

A Brooklyn principal is generating controversy for her removal of certain traditions at her school.

The New York Post reports that Eujin Kim of PS 169 has put an end to recitations of the Pledge of Allegiance as well as references to Santa Claus, Christmas, and Thanksgiving.

In fact, the latter terms are being broadly referred to as "winter celebrations" and the "harvest festival," respectively.

These new policies were reportedly communicated to staff in a memo that referred to students' diverse families and that "not all children celebrate the same holidays."

PTA officials were also notified of the changes, and the president has said they include a ban on stars which can have a religious association.


Oy. What's next? A ban on breathing?

Why the Chinese invented gunpowder.

 

[Esmeralda]

The pity of it is we should be celebrating all traditions. That's how we have learned about our neighbors traditions and they have learned about ours.

I remember one great teacher I had who loved to throw a potluck where every child would bring a dish from their parents or grandparents homeland that they immigrated from. I remember falling in love with Caribbean w/jerk and curries. These days some asshole progressive would be calling for her to be fired.

It's getting out and out stupid.

Actually, it's absolutely the opposite. Schools commonly have lessons about the various cultures where students bring food from their culture and dress in their cultures' traditional costumes. It's very common, and it's very, very much not the case that liberals are against such things: they are very much in support of such activities and lessons. Liberals are the first to embrace multi-culturalism. The principal in the OP, Kim, would not be considered a liberal, but, rather, someone who is very misguided.