Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ I am meaning there that if other things can be brought outside the home, like guns for example, religion can be brought outside the home too.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. Now do you get what I am saying here?

 

[gallantwarrior]

[
What does God have to do with Thanksgiving? Or a gold sticky star?

Thanksgiving Day is the special day set aside to thank....GOD....for all the many blessings He has given us.

Now what does that have to do with God?

I do not understand your question.

I'll believe Thanksgiving is a religious holiday when Maceys has a giant Jesus balloon.

Macey's did not define Thanksgiving Day, idjit, the Pilgrims and Abraham Lincoln did.

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

 

[Tilly]

Thanksgiving Day is the special day set aside to thank....GOD....for all the many blessings He has given us.

Now what does that have to do with God?

I do not understand your question.

I'll believe Thanksgiving is a religious holiday when Maceys has a giant Jesus balloon.

Macey's did not define Thanksgiving Day, idjit, the Pilgrims and Abraham Lincoln did.

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

 

[frigidweirdo]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

Message #11.

I don't like insulting people, so I'm just going to talk about your actions. Stupidity that knows no bounds.

So we should just impose religion on people then, because it's tradition. You don't like us waking you up at 5am with loud noise over speakers and forcing you to go to pray, then feck off and go to another country.

Read it. READ IT. If you can't understand what is written, then don't reply.

I'm not going to explain it for people who fail to read it properly.

 

[Tilly]

^^^ I am meaning there that if other things can be brought outside the home, religion can be brought outside the home too.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. Now do you get what I am saying here?

Well, OK.
And no, not really.
I guess you're a joker of one kind or another.
But, God bless anyway. Lol.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I see education as something that should be done by smart people.

I know kids learn better when they're comfortable. Not when they're being bullied. Not when they're made to be singled out.

They aren't being bullied and they are opting out if they want to. Can't change the whole system because some kids or people have different beliefs, and it would be grossly unfair to make them participate. That's the solution, rather than changing everything for the many to completely accommodate the few.

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

 

[frigidweirdo]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

No it was before you added in the other religions. It was when you referred to you and the adhan etc.

******* hell!!!!

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ I am meaning there that if other things can be brought outside the home, religion can be brought outside the home too.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. Now do you get what I am saying here?

Well, OK.
And no, not really.
I guess you're a joker of one kind or another.
But, God bless anyway. Lol.

I don't do jokes. I mean every word of what I say here. If everything else in the world does not have to be confined to the home, religion shouldn't have to be confined to the home either.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[gallantwarrior]

I grew up with Lutherans and Episcopalians-----mostly. The only holidays I saw were easter and Christmas and the only persons of importance were Jesus and
---Mary --------except Mary was more important for catholics----than she was for
Lutherans and Episcopalians. -----later on I stumbled into Baptists------who somehow did not play cards

Did they drink alcohol and dance?

You know why Baptists dont believe in sex while standing up? For fear it might lead to the sin of dancing.

SInging is supposedly a no no too. Yet..they sing in church.

Voices raised only in praise of their lord, otherwise verboten.

 

[Tilly]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

Message #11.

I don't like insulting people, so I'm just going to talk about your actions. Stupidity that knows no bounds.

So we should just impose religion on people then, because it's tradition. You don't like us waking you up at 5am with loud noise over speakers and forcing you to go to pray, then feck off and go to another country.

Read it. READ IT. If you can't understand what is written, then don't reply.

I'm not going to explain it for people who fail to read it properly.

I see what you're saying, FW, but the truth is it can be read both ways. I really think the most difficult attitudes to convey in writing on a message board are irony and sarcasm etc. And I still believe you need to try to moderate your emotional responses. And I'm not being anything other than earnest about that.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I'll believe Thanksgiving is a religious holiday when Maceys has a giant Jesus balloon.

Macey's did not define Thanksgiving Day, idjit, the Pilgrims and Abraham Lincoln did.

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

Message #11.

I don't like insulting people, so I'm just going to talk about your actions. Stupidity that knows no bounds.

So we should just impose religion on people then, because it's tradition. You don't like us waking you up at 5am with loud noise over speakers and forcing you to go to pray, then feck off and go to another country.

Read it. READ IT. If you can't understand what is written, then don't reply.

I'm not going to explain it for people who fail to read it properly.

I see what you're saying, FW, but the truth is it can be read both ways. I really think the most difficult attitudes to convey in writing on a message board are irony and sarcasm etc. And I still believe you need to try to moderate your emotional responses. And I'm not being anything other than earnest about that.

Whatever.

Advice from someone who is claiming I'm Muslim when I never said anything, is like...... well, I'm sure you can get this point.

The reality is, if someone doesn't understand what I say, I'll say it in a different way to explain it, however if someone attacks me, then I know where we stand. Do you get my point?

 

[JimBowie1958]

huh??? well----catholics do have SAINT's days-------but in general---my impression from protestants I have known is----JESUS IS IT. Thanksgiving
is SUCCOTH---------a very nice story ------that of Jesus' great great.... grandma---
ruth and lover BOAZ

Well if you are talking about Protestants that only celebrate Jesus, generally you are talking about Protestant fundamentalists. The Seven Main Stream Protestant denominations, (Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Northern Baptists, Congregationalists, Methodists, Christian Church, and Lutherans) observe cultural holidays that are compatible with their own religious culture.

Only people I have ever known to be so centered on Jesus only that they would not observe other holidays were fundamentalists, 'primitive' evangelicals and some Pentecostals. That is a small fragment of the Church world wide.

We're Pentecostal and we celebrate all of the holidays and even more Holy Days.....feasts, etc...

Growing up, admittedly a very long time ago, All the Pentecostals I knew said that these were pagan holidays and they were prohibited from observing them.

Guess times have changed.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

Back in the times prior to a 365 day year calendar, easily identifiable dates such as the winter solstice and spring equinox were used by a g reat many different nations, not to steal holidays but to simply have the festival or religious event easily calculable.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Pilgrims, together with a tribe of indians, for giving thanks to god that they had just wiped out another tribe of Indians, men, women and children. I can see how native Americans would be less than enthusiastic about that.

Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. It is now just a commercialized, ridiculous holiday celebrating consumerism. Halloween started out as a christian event, but it is now so far removed, noone would know it.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if anyone celebrates either of them, or not. I don't.

 

[Tilly]

They aren't being bullied and they are opting out if they want to. Can't change the whole system because some kids or people have different beliefs, and it would be grossly unfair to make them participate. That's the solution, rather than changing everything for the many to completely accommodate the few.

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

 

[Tilly]

They aren't being bullied and they are opting out if they want to. Can't change the whole system because some kids or people have different beliefs, and it would be grossly unfair to make them participate. That's the solution, rather than changing everything for the many to completely accommodate the few.

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

 

[Tilly]

Macey's did not define Thanksgiving Day, idjit, the Pilgrims and Abraham Lincoln did.

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

What I meant is that when Christianity spread there is no doubt that the evangelists at the time made use of existing pagan holidays and melded things together. I don't think that matters to Christians today, and I would be surprised if it mattered to God, if s/he exists.

 

[Montrovant]

Macey's did not define Thanksgiving Day, idjit, the Pilgrims and Abraham Lincoln did.

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

I would assume it depends on the circumstances. If the holiday is being pushed by the teachers on to the students, Christmas themes on schoolwork, Christmas activities for the class, things like that, a non-Christian family, particularly one that doesn't celebrate Christmas, might feel that the school is pushing a religious belief onto their child.

It gets more complicated when you have religious themed activities but allow children to 'opt out'. A child may not be forced to do religious activities they don't believe in, but in our majority Christian country, with many non-Christians celebrating Christmas, it probably wouldn't be unusual for only one student in a classroom to not be involved in whatever Christmas activity is being done. The child might feel ostracised, be made fun of by other students, etc.. Maybe that isn't enough reason to do away with school-sponsored Christmas activities, but apparently enough people now feel it is that at least some places have changed things.

There is a lot of over-sensitivity involved, but I think that is true both from some who would prefer all reference to Christmas gone from schools and some who would like to see it celebrated. Is calling it the winter holiday, or something of that nature, really that offensive or damaging to the children? Banning any use of the word Christmas in school would, obviously, be ridiculous, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that happened.

With Thanksgiving, I can only guess someone worries about possible offense to native Indians.

People can get so hyper sensitive about this kind of thing I completely understand schools wanting to avoid dealing with it and going with the most bland holiday celebration they can.

 

[Tilly]

They aren't being bullied and they are opting out if they want to. Can't change the whole system because some kids or people have different beliefs, and it would be grossly unfair to make them participate. That's the solution, rather than changing everything for the many to completely accommodate the few.

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

There is something we agree on, FW, school should be about learning 'real' things. But I'm not sure that little episodes at Christmas and Easter necessarily hamper that. Of course, if schools had to accommodate every religion on the map, 'real' things could begin to take a back seat.