Ten reasons why the cattle industry is not sustainable.

[buttercup]

Actually you could make an argument that the horse industry may not be sustainable and neither is the sheep industry or the newly developed alpaca industry not to mention goats and pigs. If you polled the radical left sources it would seem that marijuana was the only sustainable agriculture based industry left in the U.S.

It has nothing to do with right or left. Unless you believe that only leftists have compassion and care about this earth? I don't think that's the case. As for the sheep industry, I think the more it gets exposed, the fewer people will buy wool. Or eat lamb. If you don't think there's anything wrong with it, take a quick look:

 

[whitehall]

The source "care2" is hardly an agra or scientific entity. Care2 is an ultra left wing site that rambles around mostly hating Israel and trying to disrupt the social fabric of the U.S.

You don't have to take the word of one source, there are tons of different sources that will tell you the same thing. Pretty much everything in that article is common knowledge, at least among people who have done any research at all.

For example, deforestation. If you don't like the site linked in the OP, you can hear it from the World Wildlife Fund:

Deforestation is a particular concern in tropical rainforests because these forests are home to much of the world’s biodiversity. For example, in the Amazon around 17% of the forest has been lost in the last 50 years, mostly due to forest conversion for cattle ranching.​

Not only is it a copout to reject something based on the source, but it's also a common logical fallacy.

The world wildlife fund? What the hell do they know about agra-bis?

Sigh. I gave you a different source for a claim made in the article, which you had dismissed based on the source. I said that most of those claims are common knowledge. So the point right now wasn't about "agra-bis" - it was about the problems and negative effects that arise from agra-bis... which obviously conservation or environmental groups would be knowledgable on. If you want more sources, there are more. But something tells me you'd summarily reject anything and everything you don't like to hear... because, "I like steak tho."

What does "common knowledge" mean? Cattle farming is not only sustainable in rural areas of the Mid Atlantic states but it is the best way to preserve rural land from encroachment from smokestack factories and ugly real estate development. Cattle farmers obviously make a decent profit or they wouldn't be in business.

Common knowledge means well known, not a secret or something only one person is saying. As far as the unsustainability of cattle ranching, people aren't talking about small farms, and they're not talking about it on a local scale, but on a global scale. The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, it takes an astronomical amount of water and food to raise beef... it's completely wasteful, and that is one of the many reasons its unsustainable in the long run, on a global scale. Then you have the problem of animal waste, as I said earlier, animal agriculture is causing rivers and lakes to be polluted, it contaminates ground water in some places causing people to be sick, killing off fish and other wildlife, and I could go on. All of it is completely unnecessary, because not only is there no nutritional reason to eat animal products, but a diet high in animal products is linked to cancer, heart disease and other illnesses, so ultimately the only reason people do it is habit/tradition and to satisfy their tastebuds.

What do you think is more important: trashing and destroying the planet on a number of levels, epidemics of preventable diseases, the nonstop horrible cruelty that goes on every day (factory farms are diabolical, I'll post a video below)......or satisfying one's tastebuds? Please answer honestly.

[/QUOT
It doesn't take an "astronomical amount of water and food" to raise beef. They do it in Native American run farms in desert country in Arizona. Pasture land in the rest of the U.S. is prime for beef cattle. Since there are no rain forests in the U.S. the issue seems to be about the (yawn) South American deforestation which is a fake argument. Personally I think the Japanese harvesting of whales is not sustainable.

 

[buttercup]

You don't have to take the word of one source, there are tons of different sources that will tell you the same thing. Pretty much everything in that article is common knowledge, at least among people who have done any research at all.

For example, deforestation. If you don't like the site linked in the OP, you can hear it from the World Wildlife Fund:

Deforestation is a particular concern in tropical rainforests because these forests are home to much of the world’s biodiversity. For example, in the Amazon around 17% of the forest has been lost in the last 50 years, mostly due to forest conversion for cattle ranching.​

Not only is it a copout to reject something based on the source, but it's also a common logical fallacy.

The world wildlife fund? What the hell do they know about agra-bis?

Sigh. I gave you a different source for a claim made in the article, which you had dismissed based on the source. I said that most of those claims are common knowledge. So the point right now wasn't about "agra-bis" - it was about the problems and negative effects that arise from agra-bis... which obviously conservation or environmental groups would be knowledgable on. If you want more sources, there are more. But something tells me you'd summarily reject anything and everything you don't like to hear... because, "I like steak tho."

What does "common knowledge" mean? Cattle farming is not only sustainable in rural areas of the Mid Atlantic states but it is the best way to preserve rural land from encroachment from smokestack factories and ugly real estate development. Cattle farmers obviously make a decent profit or they wouldn't be in business.

Common knowledge means well known, not a secret or something only one person is saying. As far as the unsustainability of cattle ranching, people aren't talking about small farms, and they're not talking about it on a local scale, but on a global scale. The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, it takes an astronomical amount of water and food to raise beef... it's completely wasteful, and that is one of the many reasons its unsustainable in the long run, on a global scale. Then you have the problem of animal waste, as I said earlier, animal agriculture is causing rivers and lakes to be polluted, it contaminates ground water in some places causing people to be sick, killing off fish and other wildlife, and I could go on. All of it is completely unnecessary, because not only is there no nutritional reason to eat animal products, but a diet high in animal products is linked to cancer, heart disease and other illnesses, so ultimately the only reason people do it is habit/tradition and to satisfy their tastebuds.

What do you think is more important: trashing and destroying the planet on a number of levels, epidemics of preventable diseases, the nonstop horrible cruelty that goes on every day (factory farms are diabolical, I'll post a video below)......or satisfying one's tastebuds? Please answer honestly.

[/QUOT
It doesn't take an "astronomical amount of water and food" to raise beef. They do it in Native American run farms in desert country in Arizona. Pasture land in the rest of the U.S. is prime for beef cattle. Since there are no rain forests in the U.S. the issue seems to be about the (yawn) South American deforestation which is a fake argument. Personally I think the Japanese harvesting of whales is not sustainable.

I used the word rainforests, but it's not ONLY rainforests, and obviously it's not ONLY in South America. Forests are being destroyed worldwide, for cattle ranching. So nice try, but it's clear that you're looking for reasons to dismiss all this, and your apathy, tbh, is... forget it, I'm not even going to say it.

As for the water footprint of beef... again, you're focusing on small farms. Industrial agriculture DOES use up a ton of resources, because grain-fed cattle need water AND the food they eat needs water. That's just common sense, but you can also look it up, it's not even argued that it takes more water to produce beef than it does to produce other things, so once again, you seem to be willfully blind and apathetic.

 

[keepitreal]

Secondly, in regard to your overall view, you have zero insight. And even less compassion and heart.

ROFLMFAO

No darling...YOU are the one who is flat out wrong!

FYI: when you venture away from
your safe space and comfort zone and come here
you are in the presence of coders


So how many vegans are there in the USA? Based on a sampling of 11,000 adults, aged 17 and over, only two percent of Americans are vegetarian. Only one-in-four vegetarians — or 0.5% of the USA adult population — is vegan. Only half of one percent of the USA population — or 1.62 million of us — is vegan.

There are many former vegans than there are current vegans; there are more than five times as many former vegetarians/vegans than there are current vegetarians/vegans. Said differently, 84% of vegetarians/vegans abandon their diet. Extrapolated out, that means that there are 8 million lapsed vegans as opposed to the 1.6 million current vegans.

Only about one-in-eight Americans has ever considered themselves vegetarian/vegan. Roughly 88 percent of Americans have always considered themselves omnivorous/carnivorous.

So perhaps it comes as no surprise that the typical vegan is
female, left-leaning, non-religious.

I think a lot of this has to do with the internet, because it has exposed so many things that decades ago people simply didn't see.

I think in your case, you are absolutely right...

There’s a big difference
between inform and conform

People like you, spend too much time online
conforming to the ideology of others
because you are incapable of critical thinking

I know that right now this is a very unpopular position to hold around here, but veganism is the future. Not only can we see that happening with our own eyes, it's also the future from a biblical perspective (Isaiah 11:6-9, Hosea 2:18, etc.)

You can’t see that shit happening with your own eyes...
you depend on someone else to tell you what you’re seeing

Furthermore, in no way, shape or form
is a vegan lifestyle foretold in Biblical prophecy!

You don’t know what the hell you're talking about...
those Scriptures you referred to,
have absolutely NOTHING to do with vegans!

LEARN TO CODE!

I just want to add a couple things that I didn't say in my last post. I never claimed that there was a large percentage of vegans in this country right now. So evidently reading comprehension is not your strength. I said that people are waking up, especially young people (who are the future) but I was talking about the overall direction the world is heading in. Of course the numbers NOW, percentage-wise, are still low, simply because the norm in this world is to eat animal products.

As for what you said about vegans and vegetarians quitting, you don't understand what's happening. There are many people who try going vegan or vegetarian, for health reasons, or to try to lose weight, or for other shallow reasons. For the most part, THOSE are the people who go back to animal products, because they were never vegan in the first place. Veganism is not a diet. It's an ethical position that involves a complete shift in the way you think and view the world. It's like an awakening, that changes you in a deep and major way. Obviously the people who do it for health reasons or because they think it's trendy and they want to try it out are likely to only do it for a time, because they never made the actual connection, they never had that "aha moment" and we know that because once you do, you simply no longer view animals as food. EVER. But I don't expect you to understand that.

There are many people who try going vegan or vegetarian, for health reasons, or to try to lose weight, or for other shallow reasons

Veganism is not a diet. It's an ethical position that involves a complete shift in the way you think and view the world.

ROFLMFAO...see, I told you

And, you thought I didn’t know you

Secondly, in regard to your overall view, you have zero insight.

First of all, allow me....

In regard to MY overall view, you have zero insight

Now, isn’t that much better?
That is what you should have wrote

You are a NPC, SJW, for your ideology...

I told you, you conformed to ideology,
not a vegan lifestyle

A vegan is defined by
what it means to be a vegan,
not why they chose a vegan lifestyle

 

[keepitreal]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

 

[buttercup]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

 

[buttercup]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

 

[buttercup]

The earth is losing the equivalent of 27 soccer fields of rainforest every minute of every day, and 78 million acres every year. The leading cause is cattle ranching.

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Now, that’s better...thank you

What I quoted ^, from your post,
was the end of your first paragraph...

Deforestation
I read no further and started googling...

Agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation

• Agriculture is the largest single cause of deforestation and severe forest degradation.
• Except in Africa, large-scale livestock ranching and plantation agriculture are generally overtaking small-scale farming as primary causes of conversion.
• Soy supplies one-fourth of vegetable oils globally, and demand is expected to rise to 300 million tons by 2020 globally.
• Global palm oil production is expected to nearly double by 2020.

From the page I linked to below,
plant plantations, not livestock ranching,
was the main focus and concern

From the article....

to meet worldwide demand for consumer products is leading to deforestation and a range of ecological and social impacts.

As a result, agriculture is widely believed to be one of the main causes of deforestation. Around the world, forests are giving way to plantations for oil palm, soy, rubber, coffee, tea, and rice among many other crops.

Of increasing concern is the soaring popularity of biofuels. Biofuels are generated from oils extracted from plants such as oil palm – which are often grown on land cleared of natural forests.


Rising demand for soy, palm oil, cocoa and coffee is translating into expanding plantations for these crops worldwide. Many of us unwittingly contribute to forest conversion in our consumption of everyday products. For example, palm oil is used to make a whole range of cosmetics, detergents and food products including shower gel, margarine, and ice cream. Soy beans are used to make cooking oils, bread, puddings and sweets and are used in the manufacture of paints, adhesives, fertilizer and insect sprays. And for paper products, pulpwood plantations clear acres of forest to satisfy demand.

Forest Conversion- WWF

Now, let’s engage ourselves in a rational discussion

If the livestock industry ceased to exist,
or remained on a scale of, next to nothing,
wouldn’t that only accomplish a role reversal?

If plants are a major contributor to FC, now,
what will happen if, the only source of food for humans,
is grown, not bred

Instead of cow poo contaminating our water,
it’ll be insecticides and pesticides...no

Instead of hormones and antibiotics,
an equivalence will be created for crops...no

GMO crops that will produce more, grow faster,
taste better, infuse flavor, last longer,...no

What about all the different products
that plant sources are found in/used for, now?

Please read the entire page I linked to
and respond to any or all of my questions

Oh, one last question

Why do you view the symptoms
of the real problem, as the problem?

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

The two main ways to fertilize crops are chemical fertilizers and manure.
Organic pretty much rules out chemical...….

 

[buttercup]

The article you linked to focused on plant crops, but you're missing something important here. As it is now, a significant portion of crops are being fed to the billions of livestock animals. So, in essence, the two go hand in hand. The cattle have to be fattened up, you know? And that is part of the reason why beef has such a large water footprint, because not only do the cows need water, but the food they eat needs water too.

Read this article, please, it answers all your objections: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

Secondly, I have yet to meet a vegan who supports that type of agriculture, GMO crops, chemicals, etc. All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food. There are different ways of doing things, I think we can figure out a way to feed the world without creating environmental problems and without contaminating our food with chemicals.

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

The two main ways to fertilize crops are chemical fertilizers and manure.
Organic pretty much rules out chemical...….

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over. But let's cut to the chase, what is your point? Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure? Veganism does not mean perfection. It means doing the best we can to avoid using / harming animals, but part of the commonly accepted definition includes the words: as far as is possible and practicable. In an imperfect world, those words I bolded come into play. That said, I'm sure in the future there will be more options, we are already heading in that direction.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All the vegans I know are into organic, non GMO food.

Organic? You mean fertilized with manure?

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

The two main ways to fertilize crops are chemical fertilizers and manure.
Organic pretty much rules out chemical...….

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over. But let's cut to the chase, what is your point? Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure? Veganism does not mean perfection. It means doing the best we can to avoid using / harming animals, but part of the commonly accepted definition includes the words: as far as is possible and practicable. In an imperfect world, those words I bolded come into play. That said, I'm sure in the future there will be more options, we are already heading in that direction.

Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure?

My point is.....organic usually means manure.
And that you want to eliminate the sources of manure.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't really see a problem with using manure. I mean, it's just shit. And they eat grain anyway. Come on.

 

[buttercup]

As I said to the other guy, there's more than one way of doing things. There are always vegan alternatives.

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

The two main ways to fertilize crops are chemical fertilizers and manure.
Organic pretty much rules out chemical...….

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over. But let's cut to the chase, what is your point? Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure? Veganism does not mean perfection. It means doing the best we can to avoid using / harming animals, but part of the commonly accepted definition includes the words: as far as is possible and practicable. In an imperfect world, those words I bolded come into play. That said, I'm sure in the future there will be more options, we are already heading in that direction.

Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure?

My point is.....organic usually means manure.
And that you want to eliminate the sources of manure.

No, I don't think vegans want to completely eliminate all cows, haha. We just don't want them to be exploited, abused, tortured and killed for completely unnecessary reasons. And again, there are always other solutions, where there's a will there's a way.

 

[buttercup]

I don't really see a problem with using manure. I mean, it's just shit. And they eat grain anyway. Come on.

Right, that's why I said that some vegans (or maybe many?) don't have a problem with it.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Right, that's why I said that some vegans (or maybe many?) don't have a problem with it.

Well, we had a big garden on the old home place, And it's still there, too. It was about a football field sized garden. We used to just turn the manure into the dirt, we had a plentiful harvest. Biguns, too.

I dunno if a lot of vegans, particularly activist types, have lived that way of life. So, I don't really care what they think about anything.

Whenever I till up a garden again, I'm gonna mix manure ito it, just because that's how I learned to do it. And, like I said, you get a big, colorful, healthy harvest.

 

[buttercup]

I love this.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Vegan manure?

No, there are other types of fertilizers. That said, there might be some vegans who don't have a problem with using animal excrement. I'm just saying there is more than one way of doing things.

The two main ways to fertilize crops are chemical fertilizers and manure.
Organic pretty much rules out chemical...….

I'm tired of repeating the same thing over and over. But let's cut to the chase, what is your point? Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure? Veganism does not mean perfection. It means doing the best we can to avoid using / harming animals, but part of the commonly accepted definition includes the words: as far as is possible and practicable. In an imperfect world, those words I bolded come into play. That said, I'm sure in the future there will be more options, we are already heading in that direction.

Is your point that it's not vegan to use manure?

My point is.....organic usually means manure.
And that you want to eliminate the sources of manure.

No, I don't think vegans want to completely eliminate all cows, haha. We just don't want them to be exploited, abused, tortured and killed for completely unnecessary reasons. And again, there are always other solutions, where there's a will there's a way.

We just don't want them to be exploited, abused, tortured and killed for completely unnecessary reasons.

Right. So if the number of cows in the US drops 99%, the amount of cow manure
available for organic farming also drops 99%. Right?