Ten Inconvenient Truths About The National Debt: It's Worse Than You Think...

[TakeAStepBack]

Good rebuttal to the facts. You have it backwards, TryingNotToBeStupid. I understand YOUR position on this better than you do. Otherwise you would have a true rebuttal to the reality I just smeared in your face.

But one doesn't choose a handle such as yours for any other reason besides projection.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I understand YOUR position on this better than you do. Otherwise you would have a true rebuttal to the reality I just smeared in your face.

Dude, don't be stupid.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

 

[miami_thomas]

Calm down. You're getting hysterical. It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

it would set us on a path to meet our obligations in the future. But we would have to add money to that account every year to cover future obligations. As far as How far out it looks you would need to check the federal law requirements to see How car out it is needed. States have to do it for their pensions so the formula shouldn't be hard to find. The federal law requirements is What he is using to calculate the 22.2t

Ok. So Miami_Thomas doesn't know either. Anyone else?

Come on. Some good "conservative" out there has to have an idea about this!

here is your answer. It is not a set number of years rather is is the future liability for this year. See below For state pension requirements

Each year, they are supposed to deposit in a trust fund an amount that equals the present value of the future pensions their employees earned that year. (The present value is the amount that has to be invested today to grow to the desired amount in the year the employees are expected to retire.)

 

[KissMy]

Bush & Obama have screwed so many future generations. It really is very sad.

Yes they & Wallstreet have screwed us big-time. This is why I quit fighting their program, buy gold & go with the flow. It will implode one day & he who has the gold makes the rules. Our per-capita debt, debt to GDP & debt per tax payer ratios are all way worse than all those socialist Euro countries that we have been point our fingers at. Don't worry about the debt, buy farm land & gold & be happy!

 

[DontBeStupid]

it would set us on a path to meet our obligations in the future. But we would have to add money to that account every year to cover future obligations. As far as How far out it looks you would need to check the federal law requirements to see How car out it is needed. States have to do it for their pensions so the formula shouldn't be hard to find. The federal law requirements is What he is using to calculate the 22.2t

Ok. So Miami_Thomas doesn't know either. Anyone else?

Come on. Some good "conservative" out there has to have an idea about this!

here is your answer. It is not a set number of years rather is is the future liability for this year. See below For state pension requirements

Each year, they are supposed to deposit in a trust fund an amount that equals the present value of the future pensions their employees earned that year. (The present value is the amount that has to be invested today to grow to the desired amount in the year the employees are expected to retire.)

/sigh

We're not talking about state pension requirements .... you know, it's okay. It's a challenging subject. It's hard to follow. You drop me a line when you've done some reading and we'll try again.

 

[8537]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

 

[miami_thomas]

Ok. So Miami_Thomas doesn't know either. Anyone else?

Come on. Some good "conservative" out there has to have an idea about this!

here is your answer. It is not a set number of years rather is is the future liability for this year. See below For state pension requirements

Each year, they are supposed to deposit in a trust fund an amount that equals the present value of the future pensions their employees earned that year. (The present value is the amount that has to be invested today to grow to the desired amount in the year the employees are expected to retire.)

/sigh

We're not talking about state pension requirements .... you know, it's okay. It's a challenging subject. It's hard to follow. You drop me a line when you've done some reading and we'll try again.

Are you really that dumb? The article was written stating if the SSN and Medicare program were guarantees they would fall under the same federal law governing budgets for state pensions. But since they are not guaranteed they do not fall under this rule. But the article was written to show how short we are of the liabilities for SSN and Medicare if they are guaranteed. So in essence since we are not treating them as guarantees they will be no funding for them in the future.

 

[miami_thomas]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

The reality is there is no real trust at all. In fact according to the article from Forbes states that as of 2016 SSN benefits will actually be coming out of our general fund meaning all saved money for SSN will actually be all used up. This is because the other money we supposedly have to pay SSN until that 2035 date is actually in Treasury bonds. In other words we borrowed money from SSN to pay other things. Starting 2016 we have to start cashing in those IOUs.

The article below explains it all but basically to pay for these programs everyone’s taxes would have to go up by 81%. Basically everyone’s taxes would have to go up to about 60 something percent today to pay for these in the future.
The 81% Tax Increase - Forbes.com

 

[miami_thomas]

By the way that article from Forbes was in 2009. So you can guess how much that would be now. They will never be able to raise taxes that high. So something is going to have to give. Not to mention the fact that our interest payment will probably be half a trillion this year. So we have that to worry about as well. We are worse off than people are pretending we are.

 

[8537]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

So what savings vehicle would the government use to place 22.2T in an interest bearing account? What bank or other institution would accept such a deposit and pay interest without causing significant macroeconomic blowback?

It's fine to say they should keep it "in an interest bearing account". It's a whole other discussion to try to explain what the heck that would actually be.

 

[miami_thomas]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

So what savings vehicle would the government use to place 22.2T in an interest bearing account? What bank or other institution would accept such a deposit and pay interest without causing significant macroeconomic blowback?

It's fine to say they should keep it "in an interest bearing account". It's a whole other discussion to try to explain what the heck that would actually be.

It would be done in similar fashion as states and pension bearing companies are doing for their pensions now.

 

[8537]

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

So what savings vehicle would the government use to place 22.2T in an interest bearing account? What bank or other institution would accept such a deposit and pay interest without causing significant macroeconomic blowback?

It's fine to say they should keep it "in an interest bearing account". It's a whole other discussion to try to explain what the heck that would actually be.

It would be done in similar fashion as states and pension bearing companies are doing for their pensions now.

Which state pension includes 22.2T in a current interest bearing account?

Lets discuss the macroeconomic impacts of adding 22.2T of interest-bearing deposits to any institution's balance sheet.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So what savings vehicle would the government use to place 22.2T in an interest bearing account? What bank or other institution would accept such a deposit and pay interest without causing significant macroeconomic blowback?

It's fine to say they should keep it "in an interest bearing account". It's a whole other discussion to try to explain what the heck that would actually be.

It would be done in similar fashion as states and pension bearing companies are doing for their pensions now.

Which state pension includes 22.2T in a current interest bearing account?

Lets discuss the macroeconomic impacts of adding 22.2T of interest-bearing deposits to any institution's balance sheet.

To be sure, this can not be done. It was never intended to be done adn that is why SS is nothing more than a conscripted ponzi scheme. At least in a ponzi scheme people have to elect in. Not so in SS. It's mandatory.

The point of saying we would need 22.2 trillion in an interest bearing account only should signal to people that the entire entitlement program is nothing more than a tax. One that does not guarantee the returns promised by government and the day will come, in my lifetime, where those benefits will dry up completely. Although i never expect the tax to be rescinded.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

The reality is there is no real trust at all. In fact according to the article from Forbes states that as of 2016 SSN benefits will actually be coming out of our general fund meaning all saved money for SSN will actually be all used up. This is because the other money we supposedly have to pay SSN until that 2035 date is actually in Treasury bonds. In other words we borrowed money from SSN to pay other things. Starting 2016 we have to start cashing in those IOUs.

The article below explains it all but basically to pay for these programs everyone’s taxes would have to go up by 81%. Basically everyone’s taxes would have to go up to about 60 something percent today to pay for these in the future.
The 81% Tax Increase - Forbes.com

And those IOU treasury bonds, which nothing more than monetized debt, need to be sold on the market in order to reclaim the funds for these "special bonds", or t-bills.
If this makes sense, it should also make sense that there is a good possibility, especially considering the tiny yield ( i never thought I would see the day when storing wealth became almost impossible in the world) that these bonds receive at this point, they will never be recovered unless it is because the federal reserve purchases them and then prints the money up to give to the treasury.

the federal reserve purchased 61% of all treasury issuance in 2011.

 

[paulitician]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients. I would have to go back and see how much for Medicare.

The reality is there is no real trust at all. In fact according to the article from Forbes states that as of 2016 SSN benefits will actually be coming out of our general fund meaning all saved money for SSN will actually be all used up. This is because the other money we supposedly have to pay SSN until that 2035 date is actually in Treasury bonds. In other words we borrowed money from SSN to pay other things. Starting 2016 we have to start cashing in those IOUs.

The article below explains it all but basically to pay for these programs everyone’s taxes would have to go up by 81%. Basically everyone’s taxes would have to go up to about 60 something percent today to pay for these in the future.
The 81% Tax Increase - Forbes.com

And those IOU treasury bonds, which nothing more than monetized debt, need to be sold on the market in order to reclaim the funds for these "special bonds", or t-bills.
If this makes sense, it should also make sense that there is a good possibility, especially considering the tiny yield ( i never thought I would see the day when storing wealth became almost impossible in the world) that these bonds receive at this point, they will never be recovered unless it is because the federal reserve purchases them and then prints the money up to give to the treasury.

the federal reserve purchased 61% of all treasury issuance in 2011.

No offense, but you're wasting your time with the Bots. It was "Un-Patriotic" when their BOOOSH Boogeyman was running up massive Debt. But it's suddeny 'Good & Patriotic', now that their Dear Leader is doing it. You're not dealing with honest rational people. It is what it is.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I consider 8537 to be of sound intellect. He's making valid points and contributions here.

 

[Liability]

I consider 8537 to be of sound intellect. He's making valid points and contributions here.

I can't disagree with you. 8537 seems to understand the topic quite well. And even if he is wrong from time to time, that's a whole lot different than being baseless.

 

[8537]

It would be done in similar fashion as states and pension bearing companies are doing for their pensions now.

Which state pension includes 22.2T in a current interest bearing account?

Lets discuss the macroeconomic impacts of adding 22.2T of interest-bearing deposits to any institution's balance sheet.

To be sure, this can not be done.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the truth on that matter. Thanks.

 

[8537]

No seriously - can someone please explain what mechanism the government would use to "park" this 22T in needed funding for future liabilities related to the trusts? What type of vehicle would they use for that money?

If both SSN and Medicare were guaranteed, the Federal government would be required to keep in an interest baring account the amount needed to fund future liabilities assuming a minimum risk interest rate. To meet that requirement the federal government would have to, as of the articles being referenced, place 22.2 trillion in an interest baring account to cover the future liabilities promised to future SSN recipients.

But this is the fundamental misunderstanding that both parties (and Al Gore in particular) have pressed on the public. The trusts are NOT guaranteed. At all. In any form. They are not defined-benefit pensions, nor are they annuities. They are straightforward transfer payments from current workforce to past workforce. It has been this way since SS was created.

The special-issue treasuries are simply an accounting mechanism to keep track of the balance. They don't even really pay "interest" in any meaningful sense since the same entity that pays the interest, earns the interest.

Talk of an alleged actuarial liability of 22 Trillion dollars simply perpetuates the myth that the program has a guaranteed defined benefit.