Ted Cruz backs county clerks denying marriage licenses to gay couples

Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?


It's a Class A misdemeanor in Kentucky — first-degree official misconduct — if "a public servant ... refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office."

In Kentucky, misdemeanors are crimes that are punishable by up to 12 months in county or local jail.
In Nazi Germany it was a crime to do business with Jews.
Your pount?
Her point is this ***** for Jesus should have already been fired, for not obeying the laws of this nation and not doing her goddamned job. Since she is breaking the law when they do fire her, she won't get dime one from the county, including unemployment. Just watch, a bit longer...
 
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?


It's a Class A misdemeanor in Kentucky — first-degree official misconduct — if "a public servant ... refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office."

In Kentucky, misdemeanors are crimes that are punishable by up to 12 months in county or local jail.
In Nazi Germany it was a crime to do business with Jews.
Your pount?
Her point is this ***** for Jesus should have already been fired, for not obeying the laws of this nation and not doing her goddamned job. Since she is breaking the law when they do fire her, she won't get dime one from the county, including unemployment. Just watch, a bit longer...
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.
 
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?


It's a Class A misdemeanor in Kentucky — first-degree official misconduct — if "a public servant ... refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office."

In Kentucky, misdemeanors are crimes that are punishable by up to 12 months in county or local jail.
In Nazi Germany it was a crime to do business with Jews.
Your pount?
Her point is this ***** for Jesus should have already been fired, for not obeying the laws of this nation and not doing her goddamned job. Since she is breaking the law when they do fire her, she won't get dime one from the county, including unemployment. Just watch, a bit longer...
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.
It is not illegal to fire someone who will not do the job they are being paid to do. You are constitutionally illiterate. There are cases that address when a person's religious freedom conflicts with their employment duties and they all make it abundantly clear that a person cannot cite to their religion to refuse to do their job.
 
So you would oppose a Muslim that refused to do their job, but support a Christian not doing theirs. I knew that. You're an anti gay bigot.
We arent discusssing Muslims. WHy do you insist on bringing it up if we've already disposed of that issue?
I support people opposing unconstitiutional infrignements on their liberty, whatever they may be. You are a totalitarian statist. We get that.

Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.
 
We arent discusssing Muslims. WHy do you insist on bringing it up if we've already disposed of that issue?
I support people opposing unconstitiutional infrignements on their liberty, whatever they may be. You are a totalitarian statist. We get that.

Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.
Link?
You think government employees dont have job contracts?
 
Dear OKTexas
Shouldn't people have access to change jobs?

For example if a Muslim Hindu or Vegan doesn't believe in serving certain types of meat, isn't it better to get a job in the public schools somewhere else besides the kitchen if they serve those foods there.

I understand people could argue against being fired, but what about relocating them to equal pay jobs
that don't require things they don't believe in. Similar to people who can't serve in the military in combat
positions if they don't believe in killing in war, but they could serve in other areas instead.

He does, there's no law in TX that says these county clerks must violate their religious beliefs. the faghadist can find a clerk that will just as easily as they can find another baker or photographer.

False analogy, clerks are elected.

So when the laws change, and if clerks have a religious conflict,
can they be changed to other positions or allow other people or clerks to do that.

What if I am a clerk, someone speaks Bangladesh and I need someone else to handle that person.
What if someone just got robbed or assaulted, I happen to resemble the attacker,
and they don't want to look at me because I trigger PTSD and anxiety attacks.*

Can't someone else help or assist without it becoming a federal issue?

*I had one Vet tell me I freaked him out wearing black and giving him flashbacks of VietCong.
He was showing me and my bf an apartment, but had to stop because I made him so nervous.
If people have issues, I'd rather be honest, and not force them to do business if they have personal problems.
I had another job application get turned down because I was Asian and the Asian businessman wanted
an American secretary to help him with his English and was too embarrassed and uncomfortable with another Asian.

Why does this have to be a big deal? If people aren't comfortable, can't this be worked around?

If people are going to be this picky about marriage, why not separate it by party and reward
citizens for managing their own benefits under the terms of their choice. Like breaking up a trust
and allowing different companies to provide the same services. Can't the civil contracts be
administered through the state, as neutral business and legal agreements between two parties and not get into the personal details of their social relationship, and leave the other social and financial terms to the parties.

Either agree on terms, or create separate tracks.
Given the environment in Texas, I would think both parties would love to run their own machines
and decide their own policies by their own members democratically. They'd have full control that way.
Would love to see something like that work, and might solve other problems with
disagreement over prison and immigration, amnesty and restitution, education, lots of areas
might benefit by separating by party and rewarding citizens for investing in the programs they believe in.
Instead of having to fight other parties and waste billions of dollars that could be invested directly in solutions.

What is it you didn't understand when I said they could easily find another clerk, just as they could find another baker or photographer? That's not what they want, they want to force acceptance and destroy anyone who disagrees. Is the the America you want to live in?

Except the clerk in whatever the **** backwater we're talking about here...is refusing to allow her entire office to issue the licenses. It's not just her and her personal religious beliefs but she is imposing them on others.

Tell me...if a Muslim County Clerk refused to issue marriage licenses to "infidels", what do you think should happen to that individual?

Hi Seawytch I agree that is messed up, similar to 5% of the population pushing this issue and forcing people to take sides. Screwing it all up because the laws and REFORMS weren't written and passed by consensus.

The same way you and others like Debra K and I guess JakeStarkey and C_Clayton_Jones absolutely see it no other way, that once the law is passed it cannot be renegotiated, well, guess what: the people who are even more fundamentally closeminded (I will at least include your side as equal but some do NOT), ALSO see the First Amendment and their religious freedom as inalienable and absolute cannot be abridged denied or diminished in any way by any such law or ruling that to them is void.

I will at least treat your absolute understanding/belief that violating the law as set is ILLEGAL as the fundamentalists on the others side ABSOLUTELY see, believe, and understand that the ruling itself was UNLAWFUL.

This is why I am saying there must be consensus rulings on how the laws are written, because BOTH sides see the OTHER as BREAKING THE LAW.

It is SERIOUS. You make it VERY CLEAR you are not able to see it any other way except those people are breaking the law. And that is how others see you who are not as flexible and inclusive as I am trying to be. I am trying to accommodate both sides and say they are both equal Political Beliefs.

You make it more clear than ever before, that your positions are so fixed, they are not even beliefs to you, but just are the law as established. And that is EXACTLY how the other side sees it, too, so both continue to deadlock.

Neither side can see their side as beliefs, but both feel they are enforcing the law which is being violated by others. Exactly why the conflicts should have been resolved BEFORE passing or reforming laws and making this worse and worse. The DOMA and bans on gay marriage made it worse, and now this push to correct that made it even worse. And the refusal by clerks to follow the law as set made it worse. Each time, there are more and more violations because neither side is equally protected, but everything one side does violates the beliefs of the other, so it is just wrongs stacked on top of wrongs and none of this is correcting the problem which should have been mediated and resolved at the beginning and not layer after layer of wrongs.
 
Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.
Link?
You think government employees dont have job contracts?
Link? Your brain and roadkill. They have duties; set by statute. And, no, they do not have contracts. They are elected.
 
Don't be jerky, Emily. Of course, laws can be renegotiated: through our legislatures and opined on in our courts ~ the constitutional way.
 
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.

How about simply firing her because she refuses to do the job that's she's paid for?

:alcoholic:
She is doing the job she is paid for. She is registering marriages. You think she sits around all day drinking coffee like some EU bureaucrat?
 
We arent discusssing Muslims. WHy do you insist on bringing it up if we've already disposed of that issue?
I support people opposing unconstitiutional infrignements on their liberty, whatever they may be. You are a totalitarian statist. We get that.

Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.

Dear paddymurphy The Rabbi
If two wrongs don't make a right, then 3, 4 or more wrongs don't either.
The original problem is the legislators and judiciary didn't do their jobs and keep to
the Constitutional contract to protect all beliefs equally. Taking sides doesn't protect the
beliefs of the people with the other beliefs. They never ORDERED or formed a consensus
on the law which is what would be necessary to prevent these violations back and forth,
now we have both sides whose rights are violated because we are in a catch-22,
with both religious beliefs, rights to equality under law, and political beliefs violated left and right.

Had the judges and legislators worked out the conflicts this would not happen.
The judges didn't do their full job, and dumped it back on the people to sort out.
In the meantime, this clerk didn't do her job either.
Similar to how Rosa Parks didn't follow the law that was biased and messed up to begin with.

Either way, even before the issue of gay marriage came up,
marriage laws delved into personal matters and was overreaching by the state.
This has always been a problem, with the state intervening in marriage and child custody
when we give govt this authority. It just wasn't contested to this degree until gay marriage
was added and went against people's beliefs. Similar to denying gay marriage was biased
and caused a conflict. Marriage beliefs are personal and this is what is going to happen,
sooner or later.

The judges didn't resolve the Constitutional issues and how to accommodate all beliefs
equally to prevent discrimination by creed, but passed the buck back to the people.
Why? Because marriage is a personal decision that belongs to the people to begin with.
Had we the people resolved our own issues, this wouldn't have escalated to federal govt
who shouldn't have a say in our personal affairs and beliefs anyway. It isn't the judges job
to decide for us, so that's why the process keeps failing through govt. Taking sides is going to continue violating the beliefs of one side or the other because issues of BELIEFS don't belong in govt at all.
 
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.

How about simply firing her because she refuses to do the job that's she's paid for?

:alcoholic:
She is doing the job she is paid for. She is registering marriages. You think she sits around all day drinking coffee like some EU bureaucrat?
She is not doing the job because she is refusing to handle lawful marriages between same sex couples.
 
Except that's not what she's doing. She's intentionally not doing the job she swore an oath to do. She should be fired...just like the Muslim that doesn't issue marriage licenses to infidels.
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.

Dear paddymurphy The Rabbi
If two wrongs don't make a right, then 3, 4 or more wrongs don't either.
The original problem is the legislators and judiciary didn't do their jobs and keep to
the Constitutional contract to protect all beliefs equally. Taking sides doesn't protect the
beliefs of the people with the other beliefs. They never ORDERED or formed a consensus
on the law which is what would be necessary to prevent these violations back and forth,
now we have both sides whose rights are violated because we are in a catch-22,
with both religious beliefs, rights to equality under law, and political beliefs violated left and right.

Had the judges and legislators worked out the conflicts this would not happen.
The judges didn't do their full job, and dumped it back on the people to sort out.
In the meantime, this clerk didn't do her job either.
Similar to how Rosa Parks didn't follow the law that was biased and messed up to begin with.

Either way, even before the issue of gay marriage came up,
marriage laws delved into personal matters and was overreaching by the state.
This has always been a problem, with the state intervening in marriage and child custody
when we give govt this authority. It just wasn't contested to this degree until gay marriage
was added and went against people's beliefs. Similar to denying gay marriage was biased
and caused a conflict. Marriage beliefs are personal and this is what is going to happen,
sooner or later.

The judges didn't resolve the Constitutional issues and how to accommodate all beliefs
equally to prevent discrimination by creed, but passed the buck back to the people.
Why? Because marriage is a personal decision that belongs to the people to begin with.
Had we the people resolved our own issues, this wouldn't have escalated to federal govt
who shouldn't have a say in our personal affairs and beliefs anyway. It isn't the judges job
to decide for us, so that's why the process keeps failing through govt. Taking sides is going to continue violating the beliefs of one side or the other because issues of BELIEFS don't belong in govt at all.
Go back on your meds.
 
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.

How about simply firing her because she refuses to do the job that's she's paid for?

:alcoholic:
She is doing the job she is paid for. She is registering marriages. You think she sits around all day drinking coffee like some EU bureaucrat?
She is not doing the job because she is refusing to handle lawful marriages between same sex couples.
Sue her.
 
It is illegal to fire someone over their religious beliefs. First Amendment and all that.

How about simply firing her because she refuses to do the job that's she's paid for?

:alcoholic:
Sure, as Rosa Parks was jailed for violating a messed up law. That is the consequence
of civil disobedience. Even Dr. King ended up in jail and was criticized by fellow ministers
who saw breaking the law as negative and not obeying civil authority. This does happen.

In this case, the rulings and laws are messed up on both sides.
If they support gay marriage they violate beliefs of opponents who don't approve of those beliefs endorsed by the state; if they deny gay marriage they violate the equal protection and free exercise of beliefs of those who do believe in marriage equality. Either way it is a catch-22 because both sides' beliefs are equal under law.
The Judiciary and the legislators before them messed up by FAILING to recognize both the religious beliefs and the political beliefs at stake here, that all are equal in the eyes of the law. Big fat FAIL and everyone's paying.
 
Wrong. She is issuing marriage licenses. To straight couples. Which is what she was hired to do.
She was hired to issue marriage licenses to those legally allowed to marry.
Link? You've seen her contract?
Go **** yourself. Her job is clerk. Her duties are set by statute. There is no "contract"; there is a statute that describes the duties of a clerk.

Dear paddymurphy The Rabbi
If two wrongs don't make a right, then 3, 4 or more wrongs don't either.
The original problem is the legislators and judiciary didn't do their jobs and keep to
the Constitutional contract to protect all beliefs equally. Taking sides doesn't protect the
beliefs of the people with the other beliefs. They never ORDERED or formed a consensus
on the law which is what would be necessary to prevent these violations back and forth,
now we have both sides whose rights are violated because we are in a catch-22,
with both religious beliefs, rights to equality under law, and political beliefs violated left and right.

Had the judges and legislators worked out the conflicts this would not happen.
The judges didn't do their full job, and dumped it back on the people to sort out.
In the meantime, this clerk didn't do her job either.
Similar to how Rosa Parks didn't follow the law that was biased and messed up to begin with.

Either way, even before the issue of gay marriage came up,
marriage laws delved into personal matters and was overreaching by the state.
This has always been a problem, with the state intervening in marriage and child custody
when we give govt this authority. It just wasn't contested to this degree until gay marriage
was added and went against people's beliefs. Similar to denying gay marriage was biased
and caused a conflict. Marriage beliefs are personal and this is what is going to happen,
sooner or later.

The judges didn't resolve the Constitutional issues and how to accommodate all beliefs
equally to prevent discrimination by creed, but passed the buck back to the people.
Why? Because marriage is a personal decision that belongs to the people to begin with.
Had we the people resolved our own issues, this wouldn't have escalated to federal govt
who shouldn't have a say in our personal affairs and beliefs anyway. It isn't the judges job
to decide for us, so that's why the process keeps failing through govt. Taking sides is going to continue violating the beliefs of one side or the other because issues of BELIEFS don't belong in govt at all.
Go back on your meds.

Ppbbfftt!!! If you can't keep up with me, Paddycakes, or where the
country is going with recognizing political beliefs as equal under law, then that's your problem not mine.
Meds will not solve the problem. We need to address the conflicts DIRECTLY
not suppress or blame the symptoms on each other. Personal attacks just add more distractions.
What, are you afraid of addressing the issues directly?
They exist, so why not accept the fact people don't agree and deal with that REALITY.
If you can't handle reality, and I can, then who is emotionally struggling here?
Man up, this ride is heading for Equal Justice Under Law and it is intense.
 
15th post
Arrest her. Emily, the clerk's belief is not protected under the Constitution.
 
Sure, as Rosa Parks was jailed for violating a messed up law. That is the consequence of civil disobedience. Even Dr. King ended up in jail and was criticized by fellow ministers who saw breaking the law as negative and not obeying civil authority. This does happen.

In this case, the rulings and laws are messed up on both sides.
If they support gay marriage they violate beliefs of opponents who don't approve of those beliefs endorsed by the state; if they deny gay marriage they violate the equal protection and free exercise of beliefs of those who do believe in marriage equality. Either way it is a catch-22 because both sides' beliefs are equal under law.
The Judiciary and the legislators before them messed up by FAILING to recognize both the religious beliefs and the political beliefs at stake here, that all are equal in the eyes of the law. Big fat FAIL and everyone's paying.

Eh.... what?

It's very simple, she's a government employee paid to do a job and that is to issue marriage licenses. If she has a problem with that she can resign and get another job at the local church.

She's no Rosa Parks or MLK, she's just another religious nutjob that thinks god wants her to persecute gay people.

:alcoholic:
 
So Cruz was talking about TX County Clerks and you're talking about KY County Clerks, the following is what the op said.

From the link in the op: (my bold) On Saturday, the 2016 Republican presidential candidate said he “absolutely” believes that his state’s country clerks should deny marriage licenses to same-sex couples if they have a religious objection, in an interview with The Texas Tribune.

He lost...TX clerks are doing their jobs despite what the lawless Cruz told them to do.

A few KY clerks are willfully disobeying the law.

You support illegals, you support your dear leaders executive samnesty and have the gall to call Cruz, expressing an opinion, lawless. Isn't that just a tad bit hypocritical?

I support changing the law, not breaking it. Cruz supports breaking it.

Evidently you don't, as I posted early in the thread, there is no law in TX requiring county clerks to abandon their religious beliefs to issue SSM licenses. The AG said folks can go to a different clerk, simple isn't it.

No, they can't "go to a different clerk" and yes they must issue the licenses. You need to catch up with current events.

You can get a marriage license from any clerk in the State, you can go elsewhere.
 
No one has to, it is there right to get a certificate where they want.

The County Clerk has no right to tell her staff not to serve the public.
 

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