Systemical Racism

Polishprince

Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
25,490
Reaction score
11,302
Points
950
Zimmermann may have been convicted of a lesser sentence. The prosecutors went with the maximum counts. Perhaps because Obama was chiming in. We will never know now.
Actually, if they had people of color on his jury, and the cops did their jobs and investigated, he would have been in prison where he belongs.

Eventually, this shithead will hurt someone else, and he'll end up there anyway.

Actually there were minorities on the jury, and Jorge Zeemerman is a minority as well. And yes, they did investigate, there were witnesses that saw Trayvon attacking "MMA style" the hispanic block watch officer and testified. Trayvon's own witness stated that the latino was attacked because he was a creepy "ass cracker", a clear homophobic comment. "Ass Cracker" certainly sounds homophobic to me.
 

Godboy

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
19,123
Reaction score
5,044
Points
280
The new theme of the left today is systemic racism. Systemic racism of course means that racism is intrinsic in the system itself. The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds?

We were told that racism would end with the election of Barack Obama. After 8 years, not only were there no improvements, but things (according to the left) got worse.

Under Donald Trump as President, minorities seen record levels of employment for every group, that was until the Wuhan virus. More black businesses were opening up, black Americans seen higher income, and black government dependency on the decline. Prison reform under President Trump. So why is this systemic racism transcending now?

It's to create a political environment. Even though all this so-called racism is taking place in Democrat cities and states, the implication is that it's all happening under Republican leadership, however the feds have little control over what these Democrat cities and states do. President Trump has offered help to these clueless Democrat leaders, but so far, none have accepted his offers.

Systemic racism does exist of course, and has for many years. The idea of bringing in foreigners to do the jobs American minorities could be doing is systematic itself under Democrat leadership. Keeping wages lower for minorities because of these actions the same. The fight against school vouchers, which gave many minorities school choice is certainly systematic. Now the movement is to defund police departments which would have the most negative ramifications on minority communities. Something new to add to this system.

If there is indeed systemic racism, then it's actually happening from the left and not the right.
Althoug I think and it's very evident without any doubt that trump's base are mostly racist...I don't think there is a systematic racism in the US....If I made it as a Muslim/arab/African in the US anyone can...the only trick I was told before I moved here, and pretty much most immigrants know, is to avoid red areas. In fact back home many students avoid applying for schools in red states.
Good, no one wants a bunch of broke loser scrubs coming to our states. Stay in your Minneapolis shithole.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
Unless you had a huge inheritance, won the lotto or made some extremely good investments, my standard of living is undoubtedly multitudes higher than yours
Real rich people don't brag about how much money they have...because they don't need to.

Again, until you fess up and tell me what state you live in, I'm not taking anything you say seriously about your "Affluence"
What does my state have to do with it? If I named the poorest state in the country(in which I don't live), that wouldn't preclude my success. The fact is, my town has an average income higher than the average income in one of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago, with a much lower cost of living.

I don't really care if you believe me. I just get irritated with you acting as if I live in a trailer park and am destitute. You act as if that is the picture of the Republican party, when in fact, as wages increase, so does the likelihood of a person voting Republican. In other words, the more successful, the more likely you are to be a Republican. You don't like those facts, but those are the facts.
Absolutely. Here the inner-city is loaded with Biden signs. In the middle and upper middle class suburbs, you don't find many Biden signs, you find Trump signs. This is the norm in every election. I understand it's that way across the county for the most part.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
Zimmermann may have been convicted of a lesser sentence. The prosecutors went with the maximum counts. Perhaps because Obama was chiming in. We will never know now.
Actually, if they had people of color on his jury, and the cops did their jobs and investigated, he would have been in prison where he belongs.

Eventually, this shithead will hurt someone else, and he'll end up there anyway.
The police did investigate throughly. Even racist Holder sent his goons to Florida to investigate. Nothing. Everything Zimmerman explained to them was verified. It was verified by the police, by the investigators, by DNA evidence, by the autopsy. Everything lined up the way Zimmerman told the story.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
But since I intensely studied the situation and you didn't,
Yeah, buddy, you always have some lame ass excuse when a racist shoots a black child...

Point was, he had no business following that kid with a gun.

The only people to bring up race during his two terms were you guys--not us.
You're STILL upset about Obama.

Trust me, once Trump is gone in November, I won't give him another thought.
Zimmermann may have been convicted of a lesser sentence. The prosecutors went with the maximum counts. Perhaps because Obama was chiming in. We will never know now.
I looked that up when it was going on. In Florida, the jury has the right to convict on a lesser charge. In this case, the charge was murder, but the jury under Florida law had the option to convict him of manslaughter as well. They couldn't do it because legally, Zimmerman didn't break any laws.

There is no law in Florida that says you cannot follow somebody.
The law in Florida is deadly force is legal to use if you are violently attacked.
Zimmerman demonstrated he did the right thing by calling police before anything.
Zimmerman fully cooperated with authorities once they got there and began investigations.

He broke no law, not even under the manslaughter clause. He was attacked and use deadly force to stop the attack. Perfectly legal.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
He also raped his cousin, the fine outstanding person he was.
He did? When was his conviction? How many years did he serve for raping her?

Obama was responsible for all your bad life choices?
He was responsible for me losing my employer sponsored health insurance, something I had my entire life until that big eared creep ruined our country.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
Yeah, buddy, you always have some lame ass excuse when a racist shoots a black child...

Point was, he had no business following that kid with a gun.
There is no law against following somebody.
That's not true, it depends on the state you're in. For example

In Pennsylvania, the general harassment law includes a variety of actions. The following prohibited conduct is relevant to street harassment, if done with intent to harass, annoy or alarm another:​
* Following someone in or about a public place
It seems your site references nefarious intent. In this instance, Zimmerman was talking to the police and Martin ran off. There have been numerous break ins at that gated community, and Zimmerman has lived there for some time. He knew that Martin matched the description of those who were suspected of the break ins, he knew Martin didn't look familiar and likely didn't live there, he suspected Martin could be on some narcotic which toxicology tests revealed he had THC in his system.

Zimmerman was correct on all his suspicions.

In any case, if you feel somebody is following you or breaking the law, you don't attack them. You call the police and let them handle it. Had Martin done that, he probably would have been alive today; likely in prison, but alive. Because police would have told him what was going on; that Zimmerman called them because of his suspicious activities.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
The new theme of the left today is systemic racism. Systemic racism of course means that racism is intrinsic in the system itself. The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds?

We were told that racism would end with the election of Barack Obama. After 8 years, not only were there no improvements, but things (according to the left) got worse.

Under Donald Trump as President, minorities seen record levels of employment for every group, that was until the Wuhan virus. More black businesses were opening up, black Americans seen higher income, and black government dependency on the decline. Prison reform under President Trump. So why is this systemic racism transcending now?

It's to create a political environment. Even though all this so-called racism is taking place in Democrat cities and states, the implication is that it's all happening under Republican leadership, however the feds have little control over what these Democrat cities and states do. President Trump has offered help to these clueless Democrat leaders, but so far, none have accepted his offers.

Systemic racism does exist of course, and has for many years. The idea of bringing in foreigners to do the jobs American minorities could be doing is systematic itself under Democrat leadership. Keeping wages lower for minorities because of these actions the same. The fight against school vouchers, which gave many minorities school choice is certainly systematic. Now the movement is to defund police departments which would have the most negative ramifications on minority communities. Something new to add to this system.

If there is indeed systemic racism, then it's actually happening from the left and not the right.
Althoug I think and it's very evident without any doubt that trump's base are mostly racist...I don't think there is a systematic racism in the US....If I made it as a Muslim/arab/African in the US anyone can...the only trick I was told before I moved here, and pretty much most immigrants know, is to avoid red areas. In fact back home many students avoid applying for schools in red states.
Texas is a Red State with high amount of Students from around the World, can you kindly explain why Africans, Persians, Asians and so on flock to this State seeing according to your bigoted view it should be avoided?
What they didn't tell him was that it's the blue areas that have the most violent crime. The red areas are much less to worry about. I don't know what kind of friends he had back home, but if my friends told me to move to a high crime area in another country, they really are not true friends of mine.
Show me one big city in the world that has less crime than a less populated country small town.
Hell, that would be just about any one.
 

Issa

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2017
Messages
8,062
Reaction score
994
Points
275
The new theme of the left today is systemic racism. Systemic racism of course means that racism is intrinsic in the system itself. The question is, why is this fathom systemic racism only happening in Democrat strongholds?

We were told that racism would end with the election of Barack Obama. After 8 years, not only were there no improvements, but things (according to the left) got worse.

Under Donald Trump as President, minorities seen record levels of employment for every group, that was until the Wuhan virus. More black businesses were opening up, black Americans seen higher income, and black government dependency on the decline. Prison reform under President Trump. So why is this systemic racism transcending now?

It's to create a political environment. Even though all this so-called racism is taking place in Democrat cities and states, the implication is that it's all happening under Republican leadership, however the feds have little control over what these Democrat cities and states do. President Trump has offered help to these clueless Democrat leaders, but so far, none have accepted his offers.

Systemic racism does exist of course, and has for many years. The idea of bringing in foreigners to do the jobs American minorities could be doing is systematic itself under Democrat leadership. Keeping wages lower for minorities because of these actions the same. The fight against school vouchers, which gave many minorities school choice is certainly systematic. Now the movement is to defund police departments which would have the most negative ramifications on minority communities. Something new to add to this system.

If there is indeed systemic racism, then it's actually happening from the left and not the right.
Althoug I think and it's very evident without any doubt that trump's base are mostly racist...I don't think there is a systematic racism in the US....If I made it as a Muslim/arab/African in the US anyone can...the only trick I was told before I moved here, and pretty much most immigrants know, is to avoid red areas. In fact back home many students avoid applying for schools in red states.
Good, no one wants a bunch of broke loser scrubs coming to our states. Stay in your Minneapolis shithole.
Sorry but I'm thankful to be in a city that it is very diverse and accepting. Swim in your racism.
 

NewsVine_Mariyam

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
1,652
Points
325
Location
The Beautiful Pacific Northwest
Most of these studies leave a lot of factors out [snipped]
Can any of you at least explain what (if anything) is left out and why in your opinion "most" of these studies are invalid?
Judges sentence subjects based on much more than just the crime itself. They go by criminal records, how the suspect interacted with authorities, how they respect the court or show remorse for their actions.
I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to be doing that and this is exactly how biases, bigotry and prejudice creeps into sentencing.

I attended a sentencing hearing once and had to sit through a couple of other cases before the one I was interested in was heard however I remember being impressed that each time the judge explained his procedure for arriving at the sentence he did. He had a little book in which he looked up the min/max allowable sentence, then read some other documents perhaps provided by the prosecutor/defense which indicated points earned or taken away for certain activities that the defendant had participated in both good and bad. Because he was verbalizing the process, it was all recorded by the court reporter and therefore can be substantiated.

I see charging, convictions and sentencing as a logic tree, a series of IF-THEN-ELSE statements. Any activity that takes a person down one branch of the tree by definition precludes them from arriving at the end of a different branch. Unless there is evidence introduced at trial that was previously unknowable, a person should be able to determine with a fair amount of accuracy the direction and conclusion where the case will likely terminate. It shouldn't be subjective and anyone who can't solve simple logic problems and is unable to demonstrate their ability to do so and arrive at the correct conclusion, shouldn't be seated as a juror in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

NewsVine_Mariyam

Gold Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,342
Reaction score
1,652
Points
325
Location
The Beautiful Pacific Northwest
He also raped his cousin, the fine outstanding person he was.
He did? When was his conviction? How many years did he serve for raping her?

Obama was responsible for all your bad life choices?
He was responsible for me losing my employer sponsored health insurance, something I had my entire life until that big eared creep ruined our country.
How did your employer justify doing that? It doesn't even sound right (legal).
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
20,023
Reaction score
5,485
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
He also raped his cousin, the fine outstanding person he was.
He did? When was his conviction? How many years did he serve for raping her?

Obama was responsible for all your bad life choices?
He was responsible for me losing my employer sponsored health insurance, something I had my entire life until that big eared creep ruined our country.
How did your employer justify doing that? It doesn't even sound right (legal).
I lost my health insurance because of Obama. Before Obama, I had private health insurance, that was very affordable, and covered everything I needed.

After Obama Care, all those plans disappeared.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
20,023
Reaction score
5,485
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
Your post reminds me of something that happened years ago. I was with a friend who was driving us to another friends house. He was gabbing along and not paying attention. We got pulled over for speeding. He was arguing with the cop and the cop went back to his car with my friends license. I told him that I was watching his speedometer. Without a doubt he was speeding, and not a good thing to do in that upper-class area we were in.

In any case the cop came back with a ticket. As a truck driver who deals with cops all the time, I told him never to argue with a cop. Don't interrupt them, let them say everything they want to say, and that's the best way to stay out of trouble.

About a year later we were drinking in the flats. There was nobody on the streets in downtown that late so he just went through the red light, and we got pulled over. My friend, afraid of getting a DUI was Yes Sir, No sir all the way. He apologized for going through the light and said he'd have never done that if the streets weren't bare empty. The cop seen a beer between my legs and ordered me to dump it out. Yes sir I told him. He asked for my ID and I said no problem, here you go.

The cop told us to be careful because he knows we've been drinking, and no stopping anywhere to get me anymore beer.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
He also raped his cousin, the fine outstanding person he was.
He did? When was his conviction? How many years did he serve for raping her?

Obama was responsible for all your bad life choices?
He was responsible for me losing my employer sponsored health insurance, something I had my entire life until that big eared creep ruined our country.
How did your employer justify doing that? It doesn't even sound right (legal).
There is no law that says an employer has to carry insurance. When Commie Care started, his insurance rates went through the roof. I worked for a small company and he couldn't cough up that kind of extra money. In fact a lot of small businesses dropped their coverage at the time.

He gave us a dollar per hour increase in pay, but after I called Obama Care and found out their rates, they were completely ridiculous. I asked the guy on the phone, what happened to the first part of the name which is affordable?

For my doctor and hospital, they wanted $650.00 per month. 7K out of pocket, 7K deductible, no prescription or dental coverage, plus a $50.00 per visit doctor copay. It was like not having any insurance at all. It was 30% more than my Fn mortgage for crying out loud.

I take a lot of medication and that alone costs me a couple hundred dollars a month. They don't take any of that into consideration. They didn't ask me how much my property taxes were, mortgage, car payment, prescription costs, house insurance, if I had kids in college, nothing. Big Brother says you make X dollars, so Big Brother says this is what you have to pay for insurance, or lose your income tax refunds.
 
OP
Ray From Cleveland

Ray From Cleveland

Diamond Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
64,933
Reaction score
14,314
Points
2,290
I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to be doing that and this is exactly how biases, bigotry and prejudice creeps into sentencing.

I attended a sentencing hearing once and had to sit through a couple of other cases before the one I was interested in was heard however I remember being impressed that each time the judge explained his procedure for arriving at the sentence he did. He had a little book in which he looked up the min/max allowable sentence, then read some other documents perhaps provided by the prosecutor/defense which indicated points earned or taken away for certain activities that the defendant had participated in both good and bad. Because he was verbalizing the process, it was all recorded by the court reporter and therefore can be substantiated.

I see charging, convictions and sentencing as a logic tree, a series of IF-THEN-ELSE statements. Any activity that takes a person down one branch of the tree by definition precludes them from arriving at the end of a different branch. Unless there is evidence introduced at trial that was previously unknowable, a person should be able to determine with a fair amount of accuracy the direction and conclusion where the case will likely terminate. It shouldn't be subjective and anyone who can't solve simple logic problems and is unable to demonstrate their ability to do so and arrive at the correct conclusion, shouldn't be seated as a juror in my opinion.
The reason we have judges is to judge. If everybody got the exact same sentence for the exact same crime, we wouldn't need judges. Just go to the computer, type in the charge, and it prints out the sentence.

Judges take everything into consideration. Besides the things I mentioned, does the suspect have children? What is the option for those kids if he or she ends up in prison? In drug cases, have they tried rehabilitation? What were the results? What about a guy that got carried away and beat the living hell out of some pervert who was peeping in his daughters window one night and the suspect ended up in critical condition or near death? Do you give that father 25 years for attempted murder under the circumstance?

It's not as easy as this guy is white and that guy is black, but the black guy got a stiffer sentence. If you show remorse and have nothing consequential on your record, you're going to get less time than another (of any color) who's acting like a tough guy in court and disrespectful to the judge. A person with total disrespect of our laws is likely to end up back in that court than somebody who shows they respect our justice system.
 

Andylusion

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
20,023
Reaction score
5,485
Points
290
Location
Central Ohio
The problem is that Racism has been proven, time and time again. The reality is that the Law and Order folks explain it away.


It was discovered that Blacks were more likely to be pulled over in daylight. Oddly enough, once night fell Blacks were no more likely to be pulled over. Whites drove more but were pulled over less. The argument that Blacks were worse drivers or more likely to speed or drive recklessly does not explain the lower rates of being pulled over at night. Are the Blacks more likely to drive within the law at night?

Blacks were more likely to be searched. Yet, Whites were more likely to have contraband in their cars. Somehow this statistical reality did not change the focus of police searches. The Police continued to search Blacks more despite a lower probability of finding contraband.

It goes on and on. So we have demonstrable proof of Racism in the most common police interaction, the traffic stop. How about the actions of the courts? Blacks normally get stiffer sentences than whites when found guilty. Similar criminal histories does not result in similar sentences. So if you eliminate the nonsense, you are left with Racism.

It goes on and on and on. Yet those who are demanding Law and Order never demand all of the laws. They detest the idea of the Constitution actually demanding that people are given equal treatment and equal opportunity.

So yes, there is systemic racism.
No, I disagree with all of that.

For example, they found that nearly all officers had no idea the color of the driver, before making the traffic stop.

When the officer is watching someone through a radar gun, or laser gun, they have no idea who is driving. All they know is, the car is going too fast.

Moreover, one of the reasons traffic stops tend to decline at night, is because officers are usually dealing with other crime at night, and are less likely to make a traffic stop.

Has nothing to do with them being black or white. All traffic stops for all people, are greatly reduced from about 7 PM to 2 AM. At 2 AM traffic stops pick up again, because officers are very aware of when the bars close, and actively look for intoxicated drivers.

Oddly, the researchers themselves are more honest with their data, than the people who use the data to come up with politically motivated conclusions.

From your link:

"For example, driving behavior and time spent on the road likely differ by race or ethnicity. The racial composition of the local population also may not be representative of those who drive through an area, especially when dealing with stops on highways."​
"But if minorities also happen to carry contraband at higher rates, these higher search rates may stem from appropriate police work."​
"For black drivers, search hit rates are typically in line with those of white drivers, indicating an absence of discrimination."​
"In this hypothetical world, consider a fair police officer who only searches drivers with at least a 10% chance of carrying something illegal — regardless of race. In that situation, the white hit rate would be 75% and the black hit rate would be 50%. The officer used the same standard to search each driver, and so did not discriminate, even though the hit rates differ."​
"For example, if officers suspect more serious criminal activity when searching black and Hispanic drivers compared to white drivers, then lower search thresholds for these groups may be the result of non-discriminatory factors. Our results are just one step in understanding complex police interactions."​

So throughout the research that you yourself posted, over and over and over, the researchers admitted that it is entirely possible that all differences may not be any indication of actual discrimination or racism.

I'll give you a simple one.... real simple example that this research never eluded to.

Attitude.

People with an attitude towards police, are more likely to be searched. Guarantee it.

If you have an entitlement, and all police are racists attitude, an officer is going to be naturally suspicious of that individual, over an individual that says "Yeah, I was speeding. Here's my license."

If the officer says "Put your hands on the steering wheel", and you say "Yes sir" and put your hands on the steering wheel, do you think the officer is more likely, or less likely to be suspicious, than if you yell back "Why should I? Why did you stop me? I have rights!"?

And this is true of all races. If you have some white chick, screaming at the officer, saying "you can't stop me"... guess what that officer is going to do? He's going to stop her, and search her car.

I've seen videos of this. There was one not too long ago, of a older white lady, copping a full on superiority entitlement attitude, and the officer bashed the window, and dragged her out of the car.... and rightly so.

Different groups, tend to have different attitudes towards police.

If only 10% of whites hate police, and 50% of blacks hate police, and then even if the officer pulls over an identical percentage of each group... because of the attitude difference, he is more likely to search one groups cars over another.

That's not racism. That's the natural results of different groups interacting with police differently.
Your post reminds me of something that happened years ago. I was with a friend who was driving us to another friends house. He was gabbing along and not paying attention. We got pulled over for speeding. He was arguing with the cop and the cop went back to his car with my friends license. I told him that I was watching his speedometer. Without a doubt he was speeding, and not a good thing to do in that upper-class area we were in.

In any case the cop came back with a ticket. As a truck driver who deals with cops all the time, I told him never to argue with a cop. Don't interrupt them, let them say everything they want to say, and that's the best way to stay out of trouble.

About a year later we were drinking in the flats. There was nobody on the streets in downtown that late so he just went through the red light, and we got pulled over. My friend, afraid of getting a DUI was Yes Sir, No sir all the way. He apologized for going through the light and said he'd have never done that if the streets weren't bare empty. The cop seen a beer between my legs and ordered me to dump it out. Yes sir I told him. He asked for my ID and I said no problem, here you go.

The cop told us to be careful because he knows we've been drinking, and no stopping anywhere to get me anymore beer.
Exactly.

I've had the exact same experience. Exact same. I got pulled over, and was just "Yes, Sir." and when he asked if I knew why I was pulled over, I said "Sir, I was likely going over the speed limit, but I honestly was thinking of something else, so I'm not sure how fast I was going."

He gave me a warning and sent me on my way.

Now sometimes I've gotten a ticket, and honestly... rightly so. I've never been given a ticket where did absolutely nothing wrong. Maybe... maybe one time that I thought it was a bit lame of a ticket (changed lanes without using a turn signal), but even then... it's still the law, and the officer is still just doing what society pays him to do.

And I know that if I had an attitude with that officer, that ticket would not have been just $50 for changing lanes without a turn signal. It would have been $150 for something else.

Everyone should know this. Don't argue with officers. Act respectful.

What really irritates me, is that when you hear these morons on TV with BLM.... what do you hear them say? I hear them say "We want respect!".... well.... step one to being treated with respect, is to treat others with respect. They treat officers with utter contempt, and then whine they are not being treated with respect.
 

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
128,123
Reaction score
13,592
Points
2,220
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
About a year later we were drinking in the flats. There was nobody on the streets in downtown that late so he just went through the red light, and we got pulled over. My friend, afraid of getting a DUI was Yes Sir, No sir all the way. He apologized for going through the light and said he'd have never done that if the streets weren't bare empty. The cop seen a beer between my legs and ordered me to dump it out. Yes sir I told him. He asked for my ID and I said no problem, here you go.

The cop told us to be careful because he knows we've been drinking, and no stopping anywhere to get me anymore beer.
Yup. It's nice to be white, isn't it?
 

JoeB131

Diamond Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
128,123
Reaction score
13,592
Points
2,220
Location
Chicago, Chicago, that Toddling Town
What really irritates me, is that when you hear these morons on TV with BLM.... what do you hear them say? I hear them say "We want respect!".... well.... step one to being treated with respect, is to treat others with respect. They treat officers with utter contempt, and then whine they are not being treated with respect.
Check your privilege, buddy. You are Ray have never had to deal with a "DWB". The police don't treat black people with the respect they treat white people with.

Simple enough solution to all of this. Require all cops to wear body cams.
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top