Sympathy, but not money for disaster areas

bobbymcgill

Member
Aug 23, 2008
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Hurricane Gustav has been downgraded and is looking to spare the more densely populated areas along the Gulf Coast. How joyous it is that they will experience nothing on the scale of Katrina.

And how joyous it is that we won’t have to pay for it.

Since we dodged a bullet this time, what’s say we use the time before the next inevitable disaster to scrap a system where taxpayers shell out billions of dollars to people who build homes in high risk areas?

It's time they buckled down and got their own insurance.

Be it water, wind, tremors or fire, if people decide to live on a flood plain, a forest, a fault line or “Tornado Alley,” they should accept the risks and shoulder the cost. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which oversees assistance and cash disbursement, has been subsidizing these folks for too long.

As the Cato Institute stated in a report on FEMA:

“By using taxpayer dollars to provide disaster relief and subsidized insurance, FEMA itself encourages Americans to build in disaster-prone areas and makes the rest of us pick up the tab for those risk decisions. In a well-functioning private marketplace, individuals who chose to build houses in flood plains or hurricane zones would bear the cost of the increased risk through higher insurance premiums. FEMA's activities undermine that process...This $4 billion-a-year agency should be abolished.”

That report was from several years back. Since then the budget has ballooned to $8 billion-a-year. More money, same problem.

Another byproduct of having a federal safety net is that local governments, knowing that FEMA will come in and bail them out, spend less money shoring up potentially dangerous areas.

And FEMA is riddled with an incompetent and at times deceitful group of people.

During the 2007 California fires, FEMA actually staged its own press conference to avoid looking bad in the media. As hard as it is to fathom, Deputy Administrator Harvey E. Johnson stood at a podium taking questions from FEMA employees posing as reporters.

Real reporters were given only 15 minutes notice of the press conference --thus left with no choice but to phone in to a conference call which was set up in “listen only" mode. Fox and CNN ran a live feed as the faux-reporters tossed Johnson softballs like, “Are you happy with FEMA’s response so far?”, along with other questions that were framed in a way to evoke positive responses.

It's not that FEMA is completely useless. There should be some kind of disaster relief fund that would feed and temporarily shelter people, but helping them rebuild their homes in the same location is Einstein's definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." :cuckoo:

With more people paying into private insurance, the price will naturally come down as the higher cash reserves allow companies to lower the rates.

And with all the money being squandered by a poorly mismanaged agency, it is time to give something else a try. There is no reason why taxpayers should chip in on rebuilding someone's summer beach house.

Bobby McGill
Idle Wordship- News & Politics
 
Since every part of the country is subject to disaster the best way to go is to require every property owner to pay a small premium to belong to a federal disaster insurance fund.

Many of the states are important to the economy of the country.

Take LA, for instance. What do you suppose would happen if we closed the Port of New Orleans? Or CA, what would happen if we stopped growing food there?

Alternatively, we could just continue funding FEMA.
 
Since every part of the country is subject to disaster the best way to go is to require every property owner to pay a small premium to belong to a federal disaster insurance fund.

Many of the states are important to the economy of the country.

Take LA, for instance. What do you suppose would happen if we closed the Port of New Orleans? Or CA, what would happen if we stopped growing food there?

Alternatively, we could just continue funding FEMA.

I suppose that wouldn't be a good thing, and your implied point that we are one as a country is true. My concern is that there are no strings attached to the funding and thus it encourages people to set down roots where they could easily be uprooted. That doesn't seem like something that should be taxed on all citizens.

Similarly, I guess the same could be argued about the military.

My argument is not without its share of holes, but I think the overall premise is sound.
 
I have flood insurance. Its through a federal program. You cannot buy private flood insurance, the point of this whole thread is moot. Unless your talking about not building in disaster prone areas...
 
I did some more research on the insurance aspect, the govenment mandated program due to the fact that the majority of those seeking insurance are in areas likely to flood and thus it makes it unattractive to insurers. I guess that does bolster the point of them not going there in the first place...

thanks for the info... I appreciate it.

bobby
 
I agree with CATO that there are SOME examples where we probably should not offer national disaster insurance.

And in SOME cases if a place proves itself to be not such a good place to put a home or town, we help people move and condemn that land from futher development.

But as to no longer providing emergency help to sticken areas?

That's just dumb as hell, but about what I'd expect from the libertarian cheapskates at CATO.

There is NO PLACE IN AMERICA where natural disasters don't happen.

It makes sense for us to have systems in place like FEMA and national flood insurance to be there to help those who are wiped out by hurricanes, tornados, floods, earthquakes and so forth.

Now the argument might be made that continuing to save New Orleans is a mistake, I agree. Just as I agree that we should not protect beach front homes that are inevitably going to be wiped out.

But those need to be decided on an individual basis, and FEMA is a valuable service that I continue to think is a good idea.
 
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Since every part of the country is subject to disaster the best way to go is to require every property owner to pay a small premium to belong to a federal disaster insurance fund.

Many of the states are important to the economy of the country.

Take LA, for instance. What do you suppose would happen if we closed the Port of New Orleans? Or CA, what would happen if we stopped growing food there?

Alternatively, we could just continue funding FEMA.

I would quickly say yes to this except for one reason... I, in no way, believe that the government exists to be an insurance company for anyone... that is what private insurance companies are for
 
I have flood insurance. Its through a federal program. You cannot buy private flood insurance, the point of this whole thread is moot. Unless your talking about not building in disaster prone areas...

And this is a problem.... living near a river, I had to be inspected to see if I was in a flood danger area... thank goodness I am not, but if I were the Fed would have been my only option... this is absolutely absurd
 
I would quickly say yes to this except for one reason... I, in no way, believe that the government exists to be an insurance company for anyone... that is what private insurance companies are for

As was stated above, private companies don't offer flood insurance because, well I'm not really sure why not. I imagine for the same reason all the major companies are no longer writing policies in Florida, too much risk. The day will come when it's not possible to get decent, affordable insurance anywhere along the gulf coast or even the southern east coast. What then? Abandon these states?
 
And this is a problem.... living near a river, I had to be inspected to see if I was in a flood danger area... thank goodness I am not, but if I were the Fed would have been my only option... this is absolutely absurd
DD, did you know that according to the flood zone maps almost no one that flooded out during Katrina was officially in danger of being flooded?
 
And this is a problem.... living near a river, I had to be inspected to see if I was in a flood danger area... thank goodness I am not, but if I were the Fed would have been my only option... this is absolutely absurd

I am not in a flood prone area and my insurance guy laughed at me for taking out flood insurance. But, the fed program is my only option...
 
DD, did you know that according to the flood zone maps almost no one that flooded out during Katrina was officially in danger of being flooded?

And that is neither here, nor there... it is f'ed up (how can most anywhere at or below sea level in a hurricane prone area not be in a flood zone?), but really don't have a lot to do with whether the govt should be an insurance company or not
 
And that is neither here, nor there... it is f'ed up (how can most anywhere at or below sea level in a hurricane prone area not be in a flood zone?), but really don't have a lot to do with whether the govt should be an insurance company or not
I know, I was just warning you. The levees were supposed to prevent flooding, that is why they were not considered flood prone. If you live by a river, you are flood prone no matter what the flood maps say.
 
As was stated above, private companies don't offer flood insurance because, well I'm not really sure why not. I imagine for the same reason all the major companies are no longer writing policies in Florida, too much risk. The day will come when it's not possible to get decent, affordable insurance anywhere along the gulf coast or even the southern east coast. What then? Abandon these states?

But if you are in a high prone area, why does it HAVE TO BE affordable? And if you are to make it "affordable", is the government supposed to do that at the expense of others who don't live in an area that is as dangerous or disaster/damage prone?
 
But if you are in a high prone area, why does it HAVE TO BE affordable? And if you are to make it "affordable", is the government supposed to do that at the expense of others who don't live in an area that is as dangerous or disaster/damage prone?
Why does it have to be affordable? Because people have to live in these places. Do you think we can shut down the Port of New Orleans for example? I doubt it seriously without it having a hugely detrimental effect on our economy. So where do you propose the people that service the port live?
 
Why does it have to be affordable? Because people have to live in these places. Do you think we can shut down the Port of New Orleans for example? I doubt it seriously without it having a hugely detrimental effect on our economy. So where do you propose the people that service the port live?

No, Ravi, they do not HAVE to live in these places... they CHOOSE to live in these places..

The government does not and should not exist to pad your wallet so you can live in Florida or tornado alley because you WANT to... if you cannot afford to live somewhere, you live somewhere else you CAN afford...

And if you DO choose to live in an area where insurance costs are much higher, you best have the pay derived from the needed job skills to demand a higher level of pay in the area with this higher cost of living... and the base jobs that are needed will also have to pony up higher monies for labor, to ensure the lower level jobs have people in the area to work them....

It is not the government's responsibility or my responsibility living in MD to make it affordable for you to live at 1524 Hurricane Alley in Miami
 
I would quickly say yes to this except for one reason... I, in no way, believe that the government exists to be an insurance company for anyone... that is what private insurance companies are for

The only national insurance on property I know of is the national flood insurance.

About half of America lives on some kind of floodplain, and since private insurers refuse to offer insurance for those, we had little choice but to offer it.

The alternative is to watch our economy collapse every time we have a major flood event.
 
No, Ravi, they do not HAVE to live in these places... they CHOOSE to live in these places..

The government does not and should not exist to pad your wallet so you can live in Florida or tornado alley because you WANT to... if you cannot afford to live somewhere, you live somewhere else you CAN afford...

And if you DO choose to live in an area where insurance costs are much higher, you best have the pay derived from the needed job skills to demand a higher level of pay in the area with this higher cost of living... and the base jobs that are needed will also have to pony up higher monies for labor, to ensure the lower level jobs have people in the area to work them....

It is not the government's responsibility or my responsibility living in MD to make it affordable for you to live at 1524 Hurricane Alley in Miami
I can afford to live here, but thanks for your concern.

So you vote for abandon the states that are prone to hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes. I can live with that. To make up for it maybe Louisiana, Florida and California can start adding huge surtaxes on the produce, oil and sugar it provides for the rest of the country. Or we can all move to Utah and starve to death. Oh, and don't expect our cooperation with border control.

I like my idea better. Flood insurance is relatively cheap and since, in reality, disasters can happen anywhere, a national disaster insurance would be a cost effective solution.
 
I can afford to live here, but thanks for your concern.

So you vote for abandon the states that are prone to hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes. I can live with that. To make up for it maybe Louisiana, Florida and California can start adding huge surtaxes on the produce, oil and sugar it provides for the rest of the country. Or we can all move to Utah and starve to death. Oh, and don't expect our cooperation with border control.

I like my idea better. Flood insurance is relatively cheap and since, in reality, disasters can happen anywhere, a national disaster insurance would be a cost effective solution.

No... you don't abandon... but the cost of living goes up accordingly.. the cost of insurance goes up accordingly....

If I choose to live in a safer area for whatever reason... I should not be subsidizing someone else's decision to live in a more danger prone area... they should be paying for that choice
 
The only national insurance on property I know of is the national flood insurance.

About half of America lives on some kind of floodplain, and since private insurers refuse to offer insurance for those, we had little choice but to offer it.

The alternative is to watch our economy collapse every time we have a major flood event.

I fully believe private insurers don't because of the national flood insurance that is subsidized... an insurance company for profit cannot really compete with that... take that away, and in a competition market, the insurance companies will come up with some sort of solution... it will not be as 'cheap', but really SHOULD it be?
 

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