Swedish group wants to give MEN abortion rights too

[aris2chat]

Its never going to happen, Speed. As a parent's obligation is to their child. Not each other. THINK.

Your favored proposal penalizes the child, robbing it of half of its support. All so you can create unequal obligations and relieve a father of having to take responsibility for any child he fathers.

That's layers of stupidly wrong. And its never going to happen. Not in this country. And not in Sweden. Its just a fantasy that you long for to punish women for having control over their own bodies. And you're more than happy, even eager, to punish children to do it.

Get used to disappointment. As there's nothing you can do about.

Ive saying that this needs to be done for years.

And for years you've been laughably wrong.Its not going to happen because its a stupid idea. It creates unequal obligations, punishes women for having children and obsolves a father of all responsibility for any child he fathers. All while punishing his children.

Um, no.

why does the woman have all say in the male paying for 18 years or not.

Because the man refuses to be fair and carry the child for half of the pregnancy. How unreasonable is that?

If the male does not want to pay, and wants the woman to abort and she refuses, its only fair that he should not have to pay.

Which, of course, is blithering nonsense. If the child is born, they both pay. If the child isn't born, neither do. Their obligations are always equal. That's completely fair.

You're insisting that their obligations be unequal......so a father can punish his child by robbing it of half of its support. Um, no. There's nothing 'fair' about that. Not in terms of their obligation. Not in terms of the child being supported. And its never going to happen. A father is responsible to support every child he fathers.

Get used to the idea. There's nothing you can do about it either.

and if that father is against abortion and he decides he wants the child, the woman should then have to have the child, give it to the father to raise and be responsible for support for 18 years.
You have a skewed idea of what equal is.

As soon as you're able to carry a child for 9 months, you too, will be able to make that decision for yourself.

as soon as women learn to keep their drunk legs closed, that decision wont have to be made.
and if she wasnt drunk then she needs to learn about ways to avoid pregnancy too.

and men that can't keep their zipper close and try to use it as many times and places as they can?

If men had control women wouldn't have to worry about knees

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Ive saying that this needs to be done for years.

And for years you've been laughably wrong.Its not going to happen because its a stupid idea. It creates unequal obligations, punishes women for having children and obsolves a father of all responsibility for any child he fathers. All while punishing his children.

Um, no.

why does the woman have all say in the male paying for 18 years or not.

Because the man refuses to be fair and carry the child for half of the pregnancy. How unreasonable is that?

If the male does not want to pay, and wants the woman to abort and she refuses, its only fair that he should not have to pay.

Which, of course, is blithering nonsense. If the child is born, they both pay. If the child isn't born, neither do. Their obligations are always equal. That's completely fair.

You're insisting that their obligations be unequal......so a father can punish his child by robbing it of half of its support. Um, no. There's nothing 'fair' about that. Not in terms of their obligation. Not in terms of the child being supported. And its never going to happen. A father is responsible to support every child he fathers.

Get used to the idea. There's nothing you can do about it either.

and if that father is against abortion and he decides he wants the child, the woman should then have to have the child, give it to the father to raise and be responsible for support for 18 years.
You have a skewed idea of what equal is.

As soon as you're able to carry a child for 9 months, you too, will be able to make that decision for yourself.

as soon as women learn to keep their drunk legs closed, that decision wont have to be made.
and if she wasnt drunk then she needs to learn about ways to avoid pregnancy too.

and men that can't keep their zipper close and try to use it as many times and places as they can?

If men had control women wouldn't have to worry about knees

exactly, so why shouldn't the both have the option of paying or not.
The man gets screwed on this one.
Lets say the woman has the child, the man gets hit for 800 a month in support.
the woman gets married in a couple years to some guy making a couple hundred grand a year, however the new husband never officially adopts the child.
The guy who is paying 800 a month for 18 years for 20 seconds of STD collecting joy, will still have to continue paying that support until the child is 18 even though the mother and her new husband are financially set.
of course if the guy falls behind on his 800 a month payment he can lose his license, he can have his pay garnished or he could end up in jail. hardly equal to just 9 months of being pregnant. that works out to 172,000 that the guy is going to pay over the course of that child's 18 years.
And, it also could keep him from having a family of his own due to financial hardship.

 

[EverCurious]

My husband worked three jobs when I met him, he was paying $795/m in child-support to the ex GF who had told him she was taking the pill, but somehow it failed - her BC failed again a couple years ago and that guy married her despite her going to jail for stalking my husband for 20 years (and losing custody of my husbands son because she was an abusive psycho but perhaps that's neither here nor there...) When she gave us... (meh legally /him/ - but w/e I raised him from 10-19 so I consider him mine too) custody [the first time], she "informed" the judge that she wouldn't be paying child support because she "couldn't afford it" - the judge laughed at her. Two years later she sued for custody (and lost) then yelled (and yes I mean yelled) at the judge [for ordering her to pay the same $50/month in child support] because "she was pregnant and shouldn't have to pay for two kids." (I have no idea how the judge didn't laugh, I had to leave the court room.)

 

[Blackrook]

The solution to all this is that men and women don't have sex until they are ready for the responsibility of welcoming a child into the world.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

The solution to all this is that men and women don't have sex until they are ready for the responsibility of welcoming a child into the world.

We know that isnt going to happen.
But there are ways to have sex without someone getting pregnant

 

[Carla_Danger]

The solution to all this is that men and women don't have sex until they are ready for the responsibility of welcoming a child into the world.

We know that isnt going to happen.
But there are ways to have sex without someone getting pregnant

Yuck, you make my skin crawl.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If the child is born *both* have to pay. If no child is born, neither do. There's no scenario where the man doesn't share the same obligations as the woman.

.

90% of court ordered child support is paid by men.

 

[Skylar]

If the child is born *both* have to pay. If no child is born, neither do. There's no scenario where the man doesn't share the same obligations as the woman.

.

90% of court ordered child support is paid by men.

And?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

If the child is born *both* have to pay. If no child is born, neither do. There's no scenario where the man doesn't share the same obligations as the woman.
.

90% of court ordered child support is paid by men.

And?

You said both had to pay and that's not so. Men pay 90%.

 

[Skylar]

You're insisting that a woman should be responsible for any child she bears. But a father should never have to be responsible for any child he fathers.

Don't use the word "never". The father is responsible too if he doesn't disavow the kid within 18 weeks. THINK

Its never going to happen, Speed. As a parent's obligation is to their child. Not each other. THINK.

Your favored proposal penalizes the child, robbing it of half of its support. All so you can create unequal obligations and relieve a father of having to take responsibility for any child he fathers.

That's layers of stupidly wrong. And its never going to happen. Not in this country. And not in Sweden. Its just a fantasy that you long for to punish women for having control over their own bodies. And you're more than happy, even eager, to punish children to do it.

Get used to disappointment. As there's nothing you can do about.

Ive saying that this needs to be done for years.

And for years you've been laughably wrong.Its not going to happen because its a stupid idea. It creates unequal obligations, punishes women for having children and obsolves a father of all responsibility for any child he fathers. All while punishing his children.

Um, no.

why does the woman have all say in the male paying for 18 years or not.

Because the man refuses to be fair and carry the child for half of the pregnancy. How unreasonable is that?

If the male does not want to pay, and wants the woman to abort and she refuses, its only fair that he should not have to pay.

Which, of course, is blithering nonsense. If the child is born, they both pay. If the child isn't born, neither do. Their obligations are always equal. That's completely fair.

You're insisting that their obligations be unequal......so a father can punish his child by robbing it of half of its support. Um, no. There's nothing 'fair' about that. Not in terms of their obligation. Not in terms of the child being supported. And its never going to happen. A father is responsible to support every child he fathers.

Get used to the idea. There's nothing you can do about it either.

and if that father is against abortion and he decides he wants the child, the woman should then have to have the child, give it to the father to raise and be responsible for support for 18 years.
You have a skewed idea of what equal is.

He's more than welcome to carry the child himself. But if he's unwilling to do that, he can't rightly force a woman to do it for him.

My concept of equal...is equal. They both have equal control of their own bodies. They both have equal obligation. They both support the child equally.

Your concept 'equal' is always unequal. He has total control of his own body....and total control of hers. She has control of neither herself nor him. She is always responsible for every child she bears, but he is never responsible for any child he fathers. And the child is robbed of one half of its support.

Nope. None of that is ever going to happen as its just layers and layers of stupid.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Someone on another board told me that in france, paternity tests are illegal and if the father refuses to sign the birth certificate, he can't be forced to pay child support. That's interesting.

 

[Skylar]

If the child is born *both* have to pay. If no child is born, neither do. There's no scenario where the man doesn't share the same obligations as the woman.
.

90% of court ordered child support is paid by men.

And?

You said both had to pay and that's not so. Men pay 90%.

And women pay to support their children as well. In fact, on average, women bear the brunt of child rearing.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

My concept of equal...is equal. They both have equal control of their own bodies. They both have equal obligation. They both support the child equally.

No - they don't have equal obligations. Almost all child support is paid by men. THINK, hater.

 

[Skylar]

Someone on another board told me that in france, paternity tests are illegal and if the father refuses to sign the birth certificate, he can't be forced to pay child support. That's interesting.

You got it half right. Paternity tests are illegal in france. Which means that if a frenchman wants to contest that he is the father, he has no recourse. His obligation to support the child has nothing to do with his signing of a birth certificate. French courts will mandate it either way.

 

[Skylar]

My concept of equal...is equal. They both have equal control of their own bodies. They both have equal obligation. They both support the child equally.

No - they don't have equal obligations. Almost all child support is paid by men. THINK, hater.

Again, women pay to support their children too. Rent, diapers, medical care, etc. Child support is for men to pay their share of the expenses that women are already paying.

THINK. You almost never do.

 

[Dovahkiin]

I wasn't aware men had to carry fetuses.

 

[OldLady]

A father is responsible to support every child he fathers.
I agree. However, even the radical idea of making a father pay child support for a child he did not plan to sow is hard to enforce in the real world. And having raised one pretty much on my own, I gotta tell you, sending a child support check once a month is NOT the same as taking equal responsibility.

 

[aris2chat]

The solution to all this is that men and women don't have sex until they are ready for the responsibility of welcoming a child into the world.

Sex in a vital part of life, health and mental well being for animals a humans.

Even if you do want children, not even copulation results in pregnancy. At differing times of the month woman rarely will get pregnant. Many factors can change her cycle. Even a change in her body can effect her ability to get pregnant, even if on birth control.

Sex is about so so so much more than procreation.

If men waited till they were financially, emotionally and mentally ready to be a father many would be old indeed.

Tell men to keep it zipped, not blame women.

Women have an equal right to enjoy the benefits of sex without pregnancy.

 

[aris2chat]

A father is responsible to support every child he fathers.
I agree. However, even the radical idea of making a father pay child support for a child he did not plan to sow is hard to enforce in the real world. And having raised one pretty much on my own, I gotta tell you, sending a child support check once a month is NOT the same as taking equal responsibility.

if even poke resulted in a child he would be poor indeed.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Remember - child support doesn't exist. Women take the money and spend it on themselves. There is no oversight