Suspensions Overuse in K-12 Schools

[Delta4Embassy]

One of the kids here who usually comes by after school on cupcake or cookeis day seems to be a problem-child for how often he gets suspended (and then doesn't come over since his Mom grounds him.) Have spoken with him about it and according to him (for what that's worth) it's for things which to my mind seem unreasonable. Don't tell him that of course, being an authority figure that's the last thing he needs, feeling justified. But just looking up if my perception public schools today suspend significantly more than in our day, it seems they do:

http://civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/...chools/Exec_Sum_OutofSchool_OffTrack_UCLA.pdf

Wouldn't be a big deal if not for the apparent correlation between being suspended, and dropping off more than doubling with 1 suspension on your record. I was never suspended despite quite a number of fights. And yet now it seems like kids are getting suspended left and right. Is it our hyper-PC culture, too-big class sizes, zero tolerance policies, what's going on?

 

[westwall]

Address the OP or don't post .

 

[mamooth]

A young woman I know was suspended for possessing ... a plastic spork.

Okay, it wasn't just that. When they told her it could be a weapon, she began frantically jabbing the spork into her own chest, proclaiming "look at my dangerous weapon!". The adminstrators didn't appreciate the sarcasm.

We adults who know her all laughed about it, and told her to enjoy her vacation.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Fuck,

I'd bring back the switch for the little trouble makers.

 

[Samson]

Address the OP or don't post .

The article mentions " well documented" alternatives to suspensions as a discipline method.

I wonder what these are?

The concept of school discipline is very well studied, and the statistics sited in the OP are no great surprise: Large school districts are composed of a wide range of economically diverse schools. Some schools are "hot spots" for suspensions. These are schools that have greater populations of economically "disadvantaged" kids. The schools without suspensions are not implementing a magic discipline policy, they simply have BETTER BEHAVED kids from better educated parents.

Also, everyone has some example of some poor kid being suspended for some seemingly minor infraction. What you never hear is how many discipline infractions LEAD UP to the suspension? How many times was little Johnny told not to disrupt the class? How many phone calls were placed pleading with his parents to help? How many parent conferences were scheduled to help the parent make good discipline choices? How many in-school suspensions were given?

No, you never hear a parent admit that they were given every fucking opportunity to prevent the suspension. You always hear that " just because Johnny was talking in class" he was suspended. Bullshit. People need to begin using a tad more critical thinking skills before swallowing this crap.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Fuck,

I'd bring back the switch for the little trouble makers.

I'm pretty sure some states still do. Kansas or Oklahoma if not mistaken.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

When I was in grade school, we had about 1,000 students. The few who had ever gotten suspended were known to everyone else. It was that out of the ordinary. Nowadays though, according to the UCLA thing, 1 in 9 students gets suspended at some point. That's insane.

The spork thing above is indicative of how ridiculous we've become in this country. Similar incidents involve kids playing as kids do using their hands and fingers to imitate guns, kids actually getting arrested and expelled for completely normal and mundane psychosexual development and experimentation with other kids.

We've gone around the bend becomming a society the old Outer Limits show used to depict as dystopian societies.

If we're at the point where we're suspending this much, instead of that (since it seems to correlate to dropping out) we should seriously examine bringing back paddling instead. I woulda loved to get a day or more vacation growing up not much liking school. Suspension would not have been a punishment. A paddling, uh ya, I'll shut up now.

 

[Changing our Schools]

I think the zero tolerance policies are particularly problematic, as everything in schools these days seems to be "zero tolerance." Things like fights, pranks, and drugs result immediate suspension, no matter the degree or extremity of the event. Obviously if you end up stabbing someone during a fight then you should be punished, but settling a feud should not be so severely disciplined. Like a point brought up in the discussion, kids used to get in fights all the time and getting a suspension for it was very rare. I would say that the educators are just tired of dealing with the problems themselves so they just send the kids home at the first sight of trouble. I see no evidence suggesting otherwise.

 

[DGS49]

When I was in high school (Catholic) there were two tough bastards whose title was "Prefect of Discipline." When an infraction was committed the student was sent to the Prefect, who decided what punishment was appropriate. Sometimes it was working at the school (cutting grass, emptying out trash cans, cleaning blackboards), and sometimes we were sent to subject-oriented in-school "detention." There was math detention, History detention, language detention, and so on. At the in-school detention we were given long, boring subject-oriented assignments to do (NO TALKING!) in segregated classrooms. The assignment was usually suggested by a teacher. It was not actually graded, but it was reviewed to ensure that we had actually done it.

Nobody was sent home for days. All punishments were meted out during or after school hours.

The Prefects were both football coaches and no one ever sassed them. Ever.

Just a thought.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I think the zero tolerance policies are particularly problematic, as everything in schools these days seems to be "zero tolerance." Things like fights, pranks, and drugs result immediate suspension, no matter the degree or extremity of the event. Obviously if you end up stabbing someone during a fight then you should be punished, but settling a feud should not be so severely disciplined. Like a point brought up in the discussion, kids used to get in fights all the time and getting a suspension for it was very rare. I would say that the educators are just tired of dealing with the problems themselves so they just send the kids home at the first sight of trouble. I see no evidence suggesting otherwise.

Expect our very litigious society has it a liability issue too. If kids have to attend school, then they have to be protected. Why risk a lawsuit after your kid ends up in an emergency room like. Be interesting to look at public school-related lawsuits then vs now and see if they're related.

 

[NLT]

My school principal had one of these hanging on his wall
and used it.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

2nd episode just aired for the new premium cable series "Suvivor's Remorse." Was all about parental discipline ('whooping' your kids in the show.) Point was made that though a mother whooped her kid, he's now the NBA rising young star the series is about. And things like that are often cited to justify corporal punishment by parents and educators. I was spanked growing up, suffered no long term damage of effects other than perhaps being one of the most polite and respectful people you'll ever meet. ...In person anyway

 

[Samson]

I think the zero tolerance policies are particularly problematic, as everything in schools these days seems to be "zero tolerance." Things like fights, pranks, and drugs result immediate suspension, no matter the degree or extremity of the event. Obviously if you end up stabbing someone during a fight then you should be punished, but settling a feud should not be so severely disciplined. Like a point brought up in the discussion, kids used to get in fights all the time and getting a suspension for it was very rare. I would say that the educators are just tired of dealing with the problems themselves so they just send the kids home at the first sight of trouble. I see no evidence suggesting otherwise.

You "see no evidence suggesting otherwise?"

Do you work in a school?

If not, then where would you expect to see any evidence? At Wal-Mart? In your yard? WHERE?

"Settling a feud should not be so severely disciplined?" Really? Are you going to accept responsibility for how "feuds" are settled?

 

[Disir]

That's nice. Doesn't tell what it is that the suspensions are for and doesn't discuss those viable alternatives. Big on talk and short on facts.

Zero tolerance is a problem. A big problem. If you have a kid that is being bullied on a regular basis and the kid that is being bullied finally beats the bejeezes out of the bully and both are suspended automatically then you have a problem.

If you have a strict uniform policy then you have a problem. A documented and well known problem is of kids being suspended for uniform infractions. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Further, if you have kids that are being mainstreamed that shouldn't be and they are disruptive in the classroom then the viable alternatives are NOT more inclusion.

 

[DGS49]

In my local area (City of Pittsburgh) there is a claimed "crisis" because African American yoots are being suspended at a rate that is more than 10 times the rate of non-African-American yoots.

Here is today's multiple choice question: Is the crises related to...

(a) African-Americans being a menace to the school system and all other students, or

(b) Discriminatory suspension policies at the school?

Hint: Nobody is even suggesting that there are cases where A-A yoots were wrongfully suspended.

And so it goes.

 

[High_Gravity]

Suspensions? I just looked at those as vacations.

 

[High_Gravity]

When I was in high school (Catholic) there were two tough bastards whose title was "Prefect of Discipline." When an infraction was committed the student was sent to the Prefect, who decided what punishment was appropriate. Sometimes it was working at the school (cutting grass, emptying out trash cans, cleaning blackboards), and sometimes we were sent to subject-oriented in-school "detention." There was math detention, History detention, language detention, and so on. At the in-school detention we were given long, boring subject-oriented assignments to do (NO TALKING!) in segregated classrooms. The assignment was usually suggested by a teacher. It was not actually graded, but it was reviewed to ensure that we had actually done it.

Nobody was sent home for days. All punishments were meted out during or after school hours.

The Prefects were both football coaches and no one ever sassed them. Ever.

Just a thought.

This is the way to do it, if I had to deal with that instead of being sent home I would have never wanted to be suspensed. Sending kids home doesn't do anything and doesn't teach them jack shit trust me.

 

[Disir]

And how long ago did you attend high school, D?
Some 40 years ago?