Summer of Recovery huh? Economy Caught in Depression, Not Recession

[MaggieMae]

Since your incapable of interpreting the data. What we have here is a double dip recession that will be a depression if we try the smae solution again. It is happening because the stimulus could not, BY DESIGN, reverse the problem. It was nothing but a delay in the cycle. The causes may have been from the prior decade, but the solution is what will make this longer and deeper. 0bama owns ALL of that.

By design? Au contraire. The DESIGN was meant to jump start the private sector, which thus far has failed in its own responsibilities, as they sit on a pile of cash waiting to see what a new "conservative" leadership will do. In the meantime, people who are being shut out of the job market because businesses refuse to hire not only won't be buying the products those businesses offer, but they will lose their housing and voila! More and more will become dependent on government social umbrella programs.

Uh oh, be careful what you wish for, cons. BY DESIGN, you may actually be creating that monster that brings you your greatest dread: True Socialism.

 

[teapartysamurai]

s/he is interpreting PCE as income. With that in mind, do you really expect him/her to understand the rest of the report?

She is a unemployed high school dropout who's only purpose in life it seems is to start threads on this site about the demise of our country. She doesn't know what she is saying 99.9% of the time and when she "read" that article posted, she just looked for the word 'decrease' and assumed it was showing Obama in a bad light and thus somehow validating her POV.

There is no use trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone who is unfortunately just not intelligent.

That kind of idiotic attitude no longer gets my blood pressure boiling. This board and the rest of the right wing noisemakers are very good at putting up smokescreens to avoid intelligent and honest debate on the nuts and bolts of the sources behind the real problem issues. It's the same kind of mentality that loses itself in fantasy virtual cities where swords and/or bullets are the only answer. They think looking tough is all that counts in the real world.

Yeah, so "intelligent and honest debate is" lie about the actual numbers in the economy and make personal attacks on anyone that proves that BS!

Sooooooo intelligent!

 

[johnrocks]

You DO know the difference between private sector business and foreign policy?

There is a HUGE difference between cutting govenrment intrustion in THE AMERICAN PRIVATE SECTOR and blaming the US for 9/11.

Give me a break! Not even close.

I'm agreeing with you that government intervention causes unintended consequences no one is blaming anyone but government and it's interventionist ways.

The problem is, NON GOVERNMENT INTERVETNTION causes big consequences too, like the government ignoring the war in Europe until it came to our shores on December 7, 1941, OR on 9/11/2001.

There is a big difference between the government getting out of the lives OF AMERICAN CITIZENS and the government ignoring the problems in the rest of the world, until it is dumped on our shores in a heap of bodies.

Gotta look back farther than 12/7/41 or 9/11/01 to see how government intervention was at work, just like we need to look past 1/20/09 to see how government intervention was at play regarding the economy.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal, and unlike teaparty I work for a living.
I think Obama has to do something big in the economy or he's Jimmy Carter II.
I say he will extend Bush tax cuts for everybody 2 years, and he'll do something big like lower corp income taxes 5% to assure the markets and restore confidence or he's done.
All the liberal extend unemployment, tax credits for the poor just delay the agony. He has to inspire the trillions of dollars afraid of going into the market to invest. Period.

I remember the first time someone told me he was a "fiscal conservative but a social liberal."

"Oh," I said, "a hypocrite!"

"WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?" He demanded.

"Sure!" I answered. "It's okay if YOU make money, you just don't want anyone else to."



And that's the bottom line.

So topspin, after your OH SO EDUCATED posting of numbers that proved YOU TO BE TOTALLY FULL OF IT ON THE ECONOMY, all you can do is claim you are still more educated than the rest of us?

Gee, if that's what passes for education today, I'll take the moniker of not being educated. With liberals in charge of education today, that one is a compliment!

 

[MaggieMae]

incomes are and have been rising
Prices on Houses are way down, cars and most big ticket items have to be discounted to be sold.

The economy is not even strong, but it's growing and those with the rising incomes are seeing thier purchasing power rise.

Factually wrong.

Personal Income Falls In Most Cities–Except Washington DC - 24/7 Wall St.

Personal Income Falls In Most Cities–Except Washington DC
Posted: August 10, 2010 at 5:08 am


Washington DC is a good place to work during a recession. Information from the Commerce Department shows personal incomes declined in 233 cities and rose in 134 in 2009. In nine cities, the figure was unchanged from 2008. Total personal income across the cities fell an average of 1.8% last year compared to a gain of 2.7% in 2008.

The most interesting number in the report may be that among the cities with populations of more than one million people only Washington DC had an improvement in personal income. Federal government employment accounted for much of the increase.

Other large cities suffered horribly. Personal income in Naples, Florida fell 7.1%.

...

2008-2009 stats? You people are slipping. Here are the latest figures from the BEA, dated August 3, 2010, for 2010 thus far. Not huge rises, but rises in personal income nonetheless.

Personal Income and Outlays, June 2010
Revised Estimates: 2007 Through May 2010

Personal income increased $3.0 billion, or less than 0.1 percent, and disposable personal income (DPI) increased $5.1 billion, or less than 0.1 percent, in June, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Personal consumption expenditures (PCE) decreased $2.9 billion, or less than 0.1 percent.
In May, personal income increased $40.5 billion, or 0.3 percent, DPI increased $36.9 billion, or 0.3 percent, and PCE increased $8.6 billion, or 0.1 percent, based on revised estimates.

Real disposable income increased 0.2 percent in June, compared with an increase of 0.4 percent in May. Real PCE increased 0.1 percent, compared with an increase of 0.2 percent.

News Release: Personal Income and Outlays, June 2010

 

[teapartysamurai]

Since your incapable of interpreting the data. What we have here is a double dip recession that will be a depression if we try the smae solution again. It is happening because the stimulus could not, BY DESIGN, reverse the problem. It was nothing but a delay in the cycle. The causes may have been from the prior decade, but the solution is what will make this longer and deeper. 0bama owns ALL of that.

By design? Au contraire. The DESIGN was meant to jump start the private sector, which thus far has failed in its own responsibilities, as they sit on a pile of cash waiting to see what a new "conservative" leadership will do. In the meantime, people who are being shut out of the job market because businesses refuse to hire not only won't be buying the products those businesses offer, but they will lose their housing and voila! More and more will become dependent on government social umbrella programs.

Uh oh, be careful what you wish for, cons. BY DESIGN, you may actually be creating that monster that brings you your greatest dread: True Socialism.

BWAHAHAHAHAA!

Get this! She's taking the Jimmy Carter tact. IT'S OUR FAULT THE ECONOMY IS TANKING.

It's the Jimmy Carter "malaise" blame game!

If ONLY we appreciated how brilliant Obama is, we'd start hiring and making this economy work!!!!!!

Yeah that one really helped Jimmah during his reelection huh?

Keep that one up until November!

 

[johnrocks]

Being fiscally conservative but a social liberal was a traditional conservative viewpoint prior to the social con invasion from the Democratic Party. All it is, is a government "hands off" attitude, stay out of my wallet but stay out of my bedroom and living room too mindset.

 

[teapartysamurai]

I'm agreeing with you that government intervention causes unintended consequences no one is blaming anyone but government and it's interventionist ways.

The problem is, NON GOVERNMENT INTERVETNTION causes big consequences too, like the government ignoring the war in Europe until it came to our shores on December 7, 1941, OR on 9/11/2001.

There is a big difference between the government getting out of the lives OF AMERICAN CITIZENS and the government ignoring the problems in the rest of the world, until it is dumped on our shores in a heap of bodies.

Gotta look back farther than 12/7/41 or 9/11/01 to see how government intervention was at work, just like we need to look past 1/20/09 to see how government intervention was at play regarding the economy.

No sorry, you are trying to equate foreign policy with domestic policy and they just aren't the same things.

 

[MaggieMae]

save liberty you saved on education. Look up the gov numbers income is up about 1%.

Just becuase you pray for a double dip doesn't make it so. GDP is up, had you gone to college you'd know what GDP is.

I don't think going to college means anything when attempting to understand economic statistics. You only have to pay attention, and in some cases (even for college grads) review how basic economic measurements are calculated. And if you still don't understand, have someone who does explain it all in lay terms (preferably someone who doesn't have a political agenda).

 

[teapartysamurai]

Being fiscally conservative but a social liberal was a traditional conservative viewpoint prior to the social con invasion from the Democratic Party. All it is, is a government "hands off" attitude, stay out of my wallet but stay out of my bedroom and living room too mindset.

No, it's I want to make money, but I want to make it impossible for others to make money.

Thus they are all for the welfare state, blah blah blah.

They are utter hypocrites.

 

[johnrocks]

Being fiscally conservative but a social liberal was a traditional conservative viewpoint prior to the social con invasion from the Democratic Party. All it is, is a government "hands off" attitude, stay out of my wallet but stay out of my bedroom and living room too mindset.

No, it's I want to make money, but I want to make it impossible for others to make money.

Thus they are all for the welfare state, blah blah blah.

They are utter hypocrites.

I see a lot of hypocrisy in both parties, on both sides.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Well kids, I've had fun, but I have to get busy.

Come on conservatives keep at them liberals!

 

[Care4all]

it's all buuuuuuuuuuuuuuush's fault!

Yeah right! Democrats have been in control since 2007, but they are just innocent of all the economic damage their policies have caused.

November is coming liberals!

I would love to see you post the legislation for the policies that the democrats passed in 2007 and 2008 that you CLAIM caused the economic damage that has taken place...Do you think that everyone is just going to take your word for it just because it sounds fancy dancy bashing democrats?

Sure, certain people will, but the thinking Joe/Josephina would need to see some FACTS to support such a statement before jumping on the finger pointing bandwagon...

so, how about it?

Will you please tell us the policies that democrats legislated in 2007/2008 that made our nation economically worse off, as you state?

Care

 

[johnrocks]

The problem is, NON GOVERNMENT INTERVETNTION causes big consequences too, like the government ignoring the war in Europe until it came to our shores on December 7, 1941, OR on 9/11/2001.

There is a big difference between the government getting out of the lives OF AMERICAN CITIZENS and the government ignoring the problems in the rest of the world, until it is dumped on our shores in a heap of bodies.

Gotta look back farther than 12/7/41 or 9/11/01 to see how government intervention was at work, just like we need to look past 1/20/09 to see how government intervention was at play regarding the economy.

No sorry, you are trying to equate foreign policy with domestic policy and they just aren't the same things.

I'm using government intervention as cause concerning a lot of our problems;here and abroad, to me, that's consistent.

 

[MaggieMae]

Then what should the administration be doing that they are not doing, or have not done?

Specifically.

You have been told at least twice in the last month. You don't like the answer, because it means less control by government. Your scared of being responsible and hard work.

I'll repeat the question:

what should the administration be doing that they are not doing, or have not done?

To use the old adage: That's the $64,000 question. Funny that the ones who complain the most can't answer it.

 

[MaggieMae]

You have been told at least twice in the last month. You don't like the answer, because it means less control by government. Your scared of being responsible and hard work.

I'll repeat the question:

what should the administration be doing that they are not doing, or have not done?

Government is the problem, recessions are needed to burn off malinvestments, government intervention got us into the mess, it's prolonging the mess and when we do come out of it, it will be IN SPITE OF government, not due to government intervention.

Ohhh, lovely projection. Now tell us how the middle class, which is suffering the most, is supposed to pull itself out of this prolonged mess when there are no private sector jobs to begin filling the gap, more and more people are losing their homes and being forced into bankruptcy or becoming homeless. Project that.

 

[johnrocks]

Government didn't do crap in 1921 and a depression that started out bad was over within a year to 18 months, ever since then, government gets involved, creates massive bubbles, creates an environment where people want to borrow and spend and then turns to the same government for solutions to the very problems it caused in the first place.

 

[MaggieMae]

You have changed your stat three times now since I started challenging you. That shows dishonesty and weakness on your part. Now 90% of people are paying their mortgages and getting raises? (those working)

If that were true, why the recent increase in foreclosures? Most people I know took jobs that paid less than their old job. If they got a raise, it still is well below their old job's rate. Your wrong and spewing nothing but messiah 0bama scripture.

toppy was one of those I was speaking of who said the economy would rebound in 3rd quarted 2008 or 1st quarter 2009. He Kept talking about how could things be bad the mall parking lots were full.

He has been wrong all along on the economy.

And he still is.

I have been suspecting for a while we were really in a depression, NOT a recession.

This is the first egg head economist that has finally caught up to reality.

I frankly don't hold much with "economists" because most of the time they are dead wrong.

Oh, and you are?

 

[johnrocks]

I'll repeat the question:

what should the administration be doing that they are not doing, or have not done?

Government is the problem, recessions are needed to burn off malinvestments, government intervention got us into the mess, it's prolonging the mess and when we do come out of it, it will be IN SPITE OF government, not due to government intervention.

Ohhh, lovely projection. Now tell us how the middle class, which is suffering the most, is supposed to pull itself out of this prolonged mess when there are no private sector jobs to begin filling the gap, more and more people are losing their homes and being forced into bankruptcy or becoming homeless. Project that.

That's the paradox government has created, now, we need to deal with the pain, the best thing Carter did was get Paul Volker as the Chair of the Federal Reserve;raising interest rates above the inflation rate; it was political suicide but it starved inflation, Greenspan came along and took interest rates so far down that bubbles were created, now, there is little wiggle room in the monetary sector, we need to allow things to crash and rebuild the foundation stronger than it now is;imho.

 

[Care4all]

the difference between a recession and depression is only the length of time....

a prolonged recession, becomes labeled a depression, is my understanding of it...?

of course, i don't know how long one must be in a recession before it becomes a depression but maybe one of our economic gurus here, has the answer?