Sudden Silence From All Those Biden/Afghanistan Defenders

[iceberg]

You are right, people knew for a year and a half we were leaving and they stayed.

that's on them for staying to the last minute.

if Biden was evacing all protection, getting citizens out should have ranked the highest priority. allies next. yet he did neither, gave a list of allies to the taliban, and didn't vet much of anyone.

That's on Biden.

 

[pknopp]

that's on them for staying to the last minute.

if Biden was evacing all protection, getting citizens out should have ranked the highest priority. allies next. yet he did neither, gave a list of allies to the taliban, and didn't vet much of anyone.

That's on Biden.

The argument was you can't force people to leave. People had a year and a half to leave.

Biden got us out. Bush, Obama nor Trump did.

 

[iceberg]

The argument was you can't force people to leave. People had a year and a half to leave.

Biden got us out. Bush, Obama nor Trump did.

Biden got the military out and a ton of unvetted afghans.

he left a lot behind, people and equipment. most all were begging for help to leave. Biden could have coordinated it a lot better.

or are you arguing he could not have?

 

[pknopp]

Biden got the military out and a ton of unvetted afghans.

he left a lot behind, people and equipment. most all were begging for help to leave. Biden could have coordinated it a lot better.

or are you arguing he could not have?

I argued for 20 years to get us out. Biden got us out. The equipment never should have been sent there to start with and the people should have left when we announced in 3/2020 we were leaving.

If you want to condemn Biden go ahead. I'm not going to condemn the one who did what Bush, Obama and Trump totally failed to do.

 

[iceberg]

I argued for 20 years to get us out. Biden got us out. The equipment never should have been sent there to start with and the people should have left when we announced in 3/2020 we were leaving.

If you want to condemn Biden go ahead. I'm not going to condemn the one who did what Bush, Obama and Trump totally failed to do.

hey, I'm glad we got out. but it was just another shit show he continues to do in HOW he did it.

it is possible to see both sides to this if you simply try.

 

[pknopp]

hey, I'm glad we got out. but it was just another shit show he continues to do in HOW he did it.

it is possible to see both sides to this if you simply try.

It was a complete mess and it was going to be a mess leaving no matter what. The mistake was in doing what we did in the first place.

How did pulling out of Vietnam go? We cowarded out of leaving Iraq because it became messy.

 

[iceberg]

It was a complete mess and it was going to be a mess leaving no matter what. The mistake was in doing what we did in the first place.

How did pulling out of Vietnam go? We cowarded out of leaving Iraq because it became messy.

your stance as I read it is simply we shouldn't have been there so doesn't matter how badly we handle it.

I do agree on the first. after that we seem to diverge in thought. I want to get out l, but simply because we should not have been there doesn't mean we can't get out clean.

 

[pknopp]

your stance as I read it is simply we shouldn't have been there so doesn't matter how badly we handle it.

I do agree on the first. after that we seem to diverge in thought. I want to get out l, but simply because we should not have been there doesn't mean we can't get out clean.

There is a reason that neither Bush, Obama nor Trump did it.

 

[iceberg]

There is a reason that neither Bush, Obama nor Trump did it.

And you seem locked into the thought it can't be done so no one did.

It could have been done properly. It just wasn't. The rest is directed speculation.

 

[pknopp]

And you seem locked into the thought it can't be done so no one did.

It could have been done properly. It just wasn't. The rest is directed speculation.

How did pulling out of Vietnam go? How did pulling out of Iraq go?

 

[iceberg]

How did pulling out of Vietnam go? How did pulling out of Iraq go?

did we leave Americans behind?

again, I am not denying we've done stupid shit. coming and going. but because the guy before me was a dumbass is no reason or excuse to continue said dumbassness.

to say Trump would have fucked it up is speculation. while you can base it on political moves of the past, your examples, why valid to a point, ignores the good we have in fact done.

I know Biden fucked it up. the rest is based on guessing.

 

[pknopp]

did we leave Americans behind?

again, I am not denying we've done stupid shit. coming and going. but because the guy before me was a dumbass is no reason or excuse to continue said dumbassness.

to say Trump would have fucked it up is speculation. while you can base it on political moves of the past, your examples, why valid to a point, ignores the good we have in fact done.

I know Biden fucked it up. the rest is based on guessing.

You know what is not speculation? Neither Bush, Obama nor Trump got us out.

None of them had the balls.

 

[iceberg]

You know what is not speculation? Neither Bush, Obama nor Trump got us out.

None of them had the balls.

part 1 was fact.
part 2 is opinion.

can we agree here? or do you want to push your "opinion" as to why they didn't as fact and ignore any other potential issues around the situation?

 

[pknopp]

part 1 was fact.
part 2 is opinion.

can we agree here? or do you want to push your "opinion" as to why they didn't as fact and ignore any other potential issues around the situation?

You are free to give an alternative reason neither Bush, Obama or Trump got us out.

 

[iceberg]

You are free to give an alternative reason neither Bush, Obama or Trump got us out.

that would take research into the climate at the time. it's easy pickens to compare it to what biden did and say its' all the same.

it isn't. like you saying vietnam and iraq. well those were full force wars we went into and at the time americans already got out who were going to. in vietnam we abandoned POWs and that was bad, but those are not civilians now are they? in iraq, well that was just you throwing a war out there near as i can tell. but again it was clumbsy all around.

so - again - i agree we do stupid shit. but you tend to group things up and say if group 1 does something stupid then group 2 would have or XYZ.

that's close to binary to me and my own curiosity won't allow me to say that is the answer. i need to dig in and research why. so, if you're going to sit there and tell me these guys had no balls, i'd HOPE someone as intelligent as yourself did research, and not simply made a statement and chose to stick by it through time.

 

[pknopp]

that would take research into the climate at the time. it's easy pickens to compare it to what biden did and say its' all the same.

it isn't. like you saying vietnam and iraq. well those were full force wars we went into and at the time americans already got out who were going to. in vietnam we abandoned POWs and that was bad, but those are not civilians now are they? in iraq, well that was just you throwing a war out there near as i can tell. but again it was clumbsy all around.

so - again - i agree we do stupid shit. but you tend to group things up and say if group 1 does something stupid then group 2 would have or XYZ.

that's close to binary to me and my own curiosity won't allow me to say that is the answer. i need to dig in and research why. so, if you're going to sit there and tell me these guys had no balls, i'd HOPE someone as intelligent as yourself did research, and not simply made a statement and chose to stick by it through time.

As you said, we do stupid stuff. We pulled the band aid off In Afghanistan. I'm happy.

 

[iceberg]

As you said, we do stupid stuff. We pulled the band aid off In Afghanistan. I'm happy.

Great. But that still leaves "no balls" as opinion

 

[pknopp]

Great. But that still leaves "no balls" as opinion

Unless someone can convince me of a better reason that is what I believe.

Even then, it really doesn't matter. We are out finally.

Tell me how brave Bush, Obama and Trump were for not getting us out and I'll still say, great, whatever, we are out.

 

[iceberg]

Unless someone can convince me of a better reason that is what I believe.

Even then, it really doesn't matter. We are out finally.

Tell me how brave Bush, Obama and Trump were for not getting us out and I'll still say, great, whatever, we are out.

and i said fine. it's what you believe. im pretty sure we all believe our opinions. i just don't go making my opinions fact.

there's a difference between the 2 words and while trying to clarify, you kinda ran all over both of them instead.

 

[daveman]

About what, TRAITOR?
Is there something being said that bothers you? TRAITOR
Tell us what's bothering you. TRAITOR

Just a stupid ******* leftist troll repeating the garbage his masters tell him to.