Study finds 4C increase will put 1/3rd of all Antarctic shelves at risk of collapse

[skookerasbil]

Only people who tend to the hysterical sit around worrying about stuff like this. Most people are not hysterical which is why very few concerned. Too, most people have been hearing the rants from the climate obsessed for years and seen dozens and dozens of doom and gloom predictions fall flat on their face.

Anyway.......heres the cold hard fact that the climate crusaders cant quite fathom that most of the rest of the world can...........

China continues to build 2-3 coal plants/month and will continue to do so for the next 9.......thats NINE years. What does that mean? If the temps rise, we cant do dick about it. Either the climate crusaders dont have the intelligence to connect the dots on this OR they support this green stuff for nefarious reasons that relate to hate for their country and their people...........yes.......human racists my friends! Human racists..........these people need to be monitored.

 

[Decus]

Great. This should fix the drought in California.

.

What makes you think that?

Lemon - lemonade approach. What I find funny is that the article you posted stresses climate and a temperature rise to 4C as having catastrophic effect on antarctic ice but makes no real mention of growing volcanic and seismic activity in Antarctica.

"A 2017 study claimed to have found 138 volcanoes, of which 91 were previously unknown."

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists found 91 volcanoes under Antarctica. Here’s what they might do

The volcanoes are located in the West Antarctic Rift System, a 2,200-mile valley created by separating tectonic plates.

www.pbs.org

Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

www.theguardian.com

And massive seismic activity in 2020:

"More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent."

Antarctica rocked by 30,000 tremors in three months, Chilean scientists say

More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent.

www.reuters.com

.

From your last link
“There’s no evidence that this kind of seismic activity ... has significant effects on the stability of polar ice caps,” Cordero told Reuters.

There seems to be very little experience in the Poles with this type of phenomena. What other areas with huge ice deposits do you know that have experienced 30,000 tremors in a period of three months? If you can point to research I'd love to see it.

What do you think of the fact that scientists in 2017 discovered 91 previously unknown volcanoes under the Antarctic? The total number of volcanoes in Antarctica is an impressive 138 volcanoes. 138 volcanoes. Probably no definitive research on their effect either. Funny isn't it?

.

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[skookerasbil]

Great. This should fix the drought in California.

.

What makes you think that?

Lemon - lemonade approach. What I find funny is that the article you posted stresses climate and a temperature rise to 4C as having catastrophic effect on antarctic ice but makes no real mention of growing volcanic and seismic activity in Antarctica.

"A 2017 study claimed to have found 138 volcanoes, of which 91 were previously unknown."

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists found 91 volcanoes under Antarctica. Here’s what they might do

The volcanoes are located in the West Antarctic Rift System, a 2,200-mile valley created by separating tectonic plates.

www.pbs.org

Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

www.theguardian.com

And massive seismic activity in 2020:

"More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent."

Antarctica rocked by 30,000 tremors in three months, Chilean scientists say

More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent.

www.reuters.com

.

From your last link
“There’s no evidence that this kind of seismic activity ... has significant effects on the stability of polar ice caps,” Cordero told Reuters.

There seems to be very little experience in the Poles with this type of phenomena. What other areas with huge ice deposits do you know that have experienced 30,000 tremors in a period of three months? If you can point to research I'd love to see it.

What do you think of the fact that scientists in 2017 discovered 91 previously unknown volcanoes under the Antarctic? The total number of volcanoes in Antarctica is an impressive 138 volcanoes. 138 volcanoes. Probably no definitive research on their effect either. Funny isn't it?

.

.

Conveniently ignored by the k00ks..........doenst fit the established narrative.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Great. This should fix the drought in California.

.

What makes you think that?

Lemon - lemonade approach. What I find funny is that the article you posted stresses climate and a temperature rise to 4C as having catastrophic effect on antarctic ice but makes no real mention of growing volcanic and seismic activity in Antarctica.

"A 2017 study claimed to have found 138 volcanoes, of which 91 were previously unknown."

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists found 91 volcanoes under Antarctica. Here’s what they might do

The volcanoes are located in the West Antarctic Rift System, a 2,200-mile valley created by separating tectonic plates.

www.pbs.org

Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

www.theguardian.com

And massive seismic activity in 2020:

"More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent."

Antarctica rocked by 30,000 tremors in three months, Chilean scientists say

More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent.

www.reuters.com

.

From your last link
“There’s no evidence that this kind of seismic activity ... has significant effects on the stability of polar ice caps,” Cordero told Reuters.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets - NASA Science

By Alan Buis,NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory Few natural phenomena are as impressive or awesome to behold as glaciers and volcanoes. I’ve seen both with my own eyes. I’ve marveled at the enormous power of flowing ice as I trekked across a glacier on Washington’s Mount Rainier — an active, but...

climate.nasa.gov

In recent years, some have speculated that volcanic activity could be playing a role in the present-day loss of ice mass from Earth’s polar ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica. But does the science support that idea?
In short, the answer is a definitive “no,” though recent studies have shed important new light on the matter. For example, a 2017 NASA-led study by geophysicists Erik Ivins and Helene Seroussi of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory added evidence to bolster a longstanding hypothesis that a heat source called a mantle plume lies deep below Antarctica's Marie Byrd Land, explaining some of the melting that creates lakes and rivers under the ice sheet. While the study may help explain why the ice sheet collapsed rapidly in an earlier era of rapid climate change and why it’s so unstable today, the researchers emphasized that the heat source isn't a new or increasing threat to the West Antarctic ice sheet, but rather has been going on over geologic timescales, and therefore represents a background contribution to the melting of the ice sheet.

From YOUR link:

An intriguing paper by Loose et al. published in Nature Communications in 2018 provides additional evidence. The researchers measured the composition of isotopes of helium detected in glacial meltwater flowing from the Pine Island Glacier Ice Shelf. They found evidence of a source of volcanic heat upstream of the ice shelf. Located on the West Antarctic ice sheet, Pine Island Glacier is the fastest melting glacier in Antarctica, responsible for nearly a quarter of all Antarctic ice loss. By measuring the ratio between helium’s two naturally-occurring isotopes, scientists can tell whether the helium taps into Earth’s hot mantle or is a product of crust that is relatively passive tectonically.

The team found the helium originated in Earth’s mantle, pointing to a volcanic heat source that may be triggering melting beneath the glacier and feeding the water network beneath it. However, the researchers concluded that the volcanic heat is not a significant contributor to the glacial melt observed in the ocean in front of Pine Island Glacier Ice Shelf. Rather, they attributed the bulk of the melting to the warm temperature of the deep-water mass Pine Island Glacier flows into, which is melting the glacier from underneath.

Seroussi notes the changes happening now, especially in West Antarctica, are along the coast, which suggests the changes taking place in the ice sheet have nothing to do with volcanism, but are instead originating in the ocean. Ice streams reaching inland begin to flow and accelerate as ice along the coast disappears."

======

Along the coast he says, but the Volcano isn't effecting that area anyway, it down below that high heat is a contributor.

The NASA whitewashing is hilarious, since Lava is normally over 700 F as pointed out here:

How Hot Is Lava?

=====

From MY link you try hard to ignore:

"It remains unclear how the newly discovered activity affects knowledge about the glacier, because researchers don't yet know how volcanic heat is distributed along the bottom of the ice sheet. However, researchers do know that the heat from the volcano is producing melting beneath the ice sheet. This meltwater is leaking across the grounding line where the ice shelf meets the ocean."

and,

"They also note that volcanic activity could be increasing the rate of collapse of the Thwaites Glacier, which is adjacent to the Pine Island Glacier."

bolding mine

You try hard to ignore evidence that doesn't support your idiotic AGW claims.

 

[skookerasbil]

Tommy? What is lava? Does it even exist in the climate crusader dialect?

BTW Tommy.......no temp updates on the SCEPTICS ARE WINNING thread?!! Was looking for some this am in there but no activity!! I gave a little EV sales update

 

[Sunsettommy]

Tommy? What is lava? Does it even exist in the climate crusader dialect?

BTW Tommy.......no temp updates on the SCEPTICS ARE WINNING thread?!! Was looking for some this am in there but no activity!! I gave a little EV sales update

If you give me a thanks, I will get back on that old thread, which always irritates climate cultists so well.

 

[Crick]

Great. This should fix the drought in California.

.

What makes you think that?

Lemon - lemonade approach. What I find funny is that the article you posted stresses climate and a temperature rise to 4C as having catastrophic effect on antarctic ice but makes no real mention of growing volcanic and seismic activity in Antarctica.

"A 2017 study claimed to have found 138 volcanoes, of which 91 were previously unknown."

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists found 91 volcanoes under Antarctica. Here’s what they might do

The volcanoes are located in the West Antarctic Rift System, a 2,200-mile valley created by separating tectonic plates.

www.pbs.org

Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

www.theguardian.com

And massive seismic activity in 2020:

"More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent."

Antarctica rocked by 30,000 tremors in three months, Chilean scientists say

More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent.

www.reuters.com

.

From your last link
“There’s no evidence that this kind of seismic activity ... has significant effects on the stability of polar ice caps,” Cordero told Reuters.

There seems to be very little experience in the Poles with this type of phenomena. What other areas with huge ice deposits do you know that have experienced 30,000 tremors in a period of three months? If you can point to research I'd love to see it.

What do you think of the fact that scientists in 2017 discovered 91 previously unknown volcanoes under the Antarctic? The total number of volcanoes in Antarctica is an impressive 138 volcanoes. 138 volcanoes. Probably no definitive research on their effect either. Funny isn't it?

Were you under the impression that those volcanos just appeared in the last few years? They've been there for hundreds of millenia and yet, the Antarctic continent with its kilometers-thick coat of ice still stands. Funny, isn't it?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah we just might be headed for an ice age.

But with the warming driver added by human activity, the ice ages will be warmer than otherwise.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Probably no definitive research on their effect either.

Definitive...how? I don't think anyone pretends to have all the answers.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You try hard to ignore evidence that doesn't support your idiotic AGW claims.

They are not his claims. They are the overwhelming consensus of the global scientific community. For you to say it doesn't arise from the evidence is a joke, and you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Sunsettommy]

You try hard to ignore evidence that doesn't support your idiotic AGW claims.

They are not his claims. They are the overwhelming consensus of the global scientific community. For you to say it doesn't arise from the evidence is a joke, and you are embarrassing yourself.

Your ignorance and stupidity never ends.

CO2 by ITSELF can't generate a runaway warming trend not even close, even the warmist/alarmist scientists agree on this, this has been the standard agreement for years already. It is the POSITIVE Feedback claims that was postulated to generate that scary warming forecast, but never existed in the last billion years and NOT even showing up at all today either.

This is why I posted the charts showing the Positive Feedback abject failure, POST 42 and then 43

The consensus argument is a well known fallacy, but you post that nonsense because you can't make a rational testable argument in support of the AGW conjecture.

 

[Decus]

Great. This should fix the drought in California.

.

What makes you think that?

Lemon - lemonade approach. What I find funny is that the article you posted stresses climate and a temperature rise to 4C as having catastrophic effect on antarctic ice but makes no real mention of growing volcanic and seismic activity in Antarctica.

"A 2017 study claimed to have found 138 volcanoes, of which 91 were previously unknown."

List of volcanoes in Antarctica - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scientists found 91 volcanoes under Antarctica. Here’s what they might do

The volcanoes are located in the West Antarctic Rift System, a 2,200-mile valley created by separating tectonic plates.

www.pbs.org

Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet

This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

www.theguardian.com

And massive seismic activity in 2020:

"More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent."

Antarctica rocked by 30,000 tremors in three months, Chilean scientists say

More than 30,000 tremors have rocked Antarctica since the end of August, according to the University of Chile, a spike in seismic activity that has intrigued researchers who study the remote, snowbound continent.

www.reuters.com

.

From your last link
“There’s no evidence that this kind of seismic activity ... has significant effects on the stability of polar ice caps,” Cordero told Reuters.

There seems to be very little experience in the Poles with this type of phenomena. What other areas with huge ice deposits do you know that have experienced 30,000 tremors in a period of three months? If you can point to research I'd love to see it.

What do you think of the fact that scientists in 2017 discovered 91 previously unknown volcanoes under the Antarctic? The total number of volcanoes in Antarctica is an impressive 138 volcanoes. 138 volcanoes. Probably no definitive research on their effect either. Funny isn't it?

Were you under the impression that those volcanos just appeared in the last few years? They've been there for hundreds of millenia and yet, the Antarctic continent with its kilometers-thick coat of ice still stands. Funny, isn't it?

Increased seismic activity may have something to do with the melt.

.

 

[Decus]

Probably no definitive research on their effect either.

Definitive...how? I don't think anyone pretends to have all the answers.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

.

Antarctica is still shedding its secrets:

"In this remote environment, any observations are very rare. The use of high-resolution satellite data is important, but it still leaves some questions unanswered."
........
"Melting at the bed is not just initiated by frictional heat as the glacier slides over the rocky bed, but also through geothermal heat from inside the Earth. Thwaites Glacier is located near the West Antarctic Rift System — a tectonic area of thinning crust, responsible for volcanic activity on the continent. These large-scale geologic movements within the Earth create enough heat to melt the ice above bedrock. A problem, however, is that estimating the heat flux from tectonic movement here is very difficult, so its contribution to melt is rather unknown."

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/12/18/thwaites-subglacial-lakes-active/

.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Probably no definitive research on their effect either.

Definitive...how? I don't think anyone pretends to have all the answers.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

.

Antarctica is still shedding its secrets:

"In this remote environment, any observations are very rare. The use of high-resolution satellite data is important, but it still leaves some questions unanswered."
........
"Melting at the bed is not just initiated by frictional heat as the glacier slides over the rocky bed, but also through geothermal heat from inside the Earth. Thwaites Glacier is located near the West Antarctic Rift System — a tectonic area of thinning crust, responsible for volcanic activity on the continent. These large-scale geologic movements within the Earth create enough heat to melt the ice above bedrock. A problem, however, is that estimating the heat flux from tectonic movement here is very difficult, so its contribution to melt is rather unknown."

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/12/18/thwaites-subglacial-lakes-active/

.

Yep. What IS known is that warmer sea water and surface temps most definitely do contribute to the melt.

 

[Crick]

Probably no definitive research on their effect either.

Definitive...how? I don't think anyone pretends to have all the answers.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

.

Antarctica is still shedding its secrets:

"In this remote environment, any observations are very rare. The use of high-resolution satellite data is important, but it still leaves some questions unanswered."
........
"Melting at the bed is not just initiated by frictional heat as the glacier slides over the rocky bed, but also through geothermal heat from inside the Earth. Thwaites Glacier is located near the West Antarctic Rift System — a tectonic area of thinning crust, responsible for volcanic activity on the continent. These large-scale geologic movements within the Earth create enough heat to melt the ice above bedrock. A problem, however, is that estimating the heat flux from tectonic movement here is very difficult, so its contribution to melt is rather unknown."

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/12/18/thwaites-subglacial-lakes-active/

.

That geothermal heating has been going on over geological timescales. It is simply a background to contemporary processes. And since the location of these volcanic areas does NOT coincide with the collapsing ice sheets nor the accelerating glaciers, it can not be held responsible. Given that the WAIS bedrock is all below sea level, if geothermal heating was able to liquify even small portions of the ice bottom, sea water intrusion would have floated and destroyed that sheet a million years ago. But there it sits. For now.

 

[Decus]

Probably no definitive research on their effect either.

Definitive...how? I don't think anyone pretends to have all the answers.

Fire and Ice: Why Volcanic Activity Is Not Melting the Polar Ice Sheets – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

.

Antarctica is still shedding its secrets:

"In this remote environment, any observations are very rare. The use of high-resolution satellite data is important, but it still leaves some questions unanswered."
........
"Melting at the bed is not just initiated by frictional heat as the glacier slides over the rocky bed, but also through geothermal heat from inside the Earth. Thwaites Glacier is located near the West Antarctic Rift System — a tectonic area of thinning crust, responsible for volcanic activity on the continent. These large-scale geologic movements within the Earth create enough heat to melt the ice above bedrock. A problem, however, is that estimating the heat flux from tectonic movement here is very difficult, so its contribution to melt is rather unknown."

https://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2020/12/18/thwaites-subglacial-lakes-active/

.

That geothermal heating has been going on over geological timescales. It is simply a background to contemporary processes. And since the location of these volcanic areas does NOT coincide with the collapsing ice sheets nor the accelerating glaciers, it can not be held responsible. Given that the WAIS bedrock is all below sea level, if geothermal heating was able to liquify even small portions of the ice bottom, sea water intrusion would have floated and destroyed that sheet a million years ago. But there it sits. For now.

Geothermal may well have diminished ice sheets a million years ago and probably did it even more recently. Given that this extreme melting in Antarctica took place over 100,000 years ago it's hard to blame it on human activity:

"Mass melting of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet was a major cause of high sea levels during a period known as the Last Interglacial (129,000-116,000 years ago), an international team of scientists led by UNSW's Chris Turney has found. The research was published today in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)."

Ancient Antarctic ice melt increased sea levels by 3+ meters—and it could happen again

Rising ocean temperatures drove the melting of Antarctic ice sheets and caused extreme sea level rise more than 100,000 years ago, a new international study led by UNSW Sydney shows.

phys.org

So much more to discover regarding Antarctica:

From the European Geosciences Union

Image of the Week – Geothermal heat flux in Antarctica: do we really know anything?

Spatial distributions of geothermal heat flux: (A) Pollard et al. (2005) constant values, (B) Shapiro and Ritzwoller (2004): seismic model, (C) Fox Maule et al. (2005): magnetic measurements, (D) Purucker (2013): magnetic measurements, (E) An et al. (2015): seismic model and (F) Martos et al...

blogs.egu.eu

Surprisingly high geothermal heating beneath West Antarctic Ice Sheet

The amount of heat flowing toward the base of the West Antarctic ice sheet from geothermal sources deep within the Earth is surprisingly high, according to a new study. The results provide important data for researchers trying to predict the fate of the ice sheet, which has experienced rapid...

www.sciencedaily.com

.

 

[Crick]

No one blames it on human activity. They blame it on the Milankovich cycles

 

[whitehall]

Let's see, what is the source of heat for the Earth? Is it left wing hot air or the Sun? It's hard to convince people in Pennsylvania and Vermont that we are almost a month into spring when they are looking at a winter event. Is it possible that the Fukishima earthquake that shifted the North Pole a couple of degrees is responsible for the polar vortex that seems to be plaguing the U.S. this year. Lefties dismiss it because there is no money in it. It's more lucrative to dwell on the possibility of a Anarctic thaw.

 

[Crick]

Let's see, what is the source of heat for the Earth? Is it left wing hot air or the Sun? It's hard to convince people in Pennsylvania and Vermont that we are almost a month into spring when they are looking at a winter event. Is it possible that the Fukishima earthquake that shifted the North Pole a couple of degrees is responsible for the polar vortex that seems to be plaguing the U.S. this year. Lefties dismiss it because there is no money in it. It's more lucrative to dwell on the possibility of a Anarctic thaw.

Rossby Waves are caused by a reduction in the temperature difference between the poles and the equator.

 

[Decus]

No one blames it on human activity. They blame it on the Milankovich cycles

Given that this extreme melting in Antarctica also took place over 100,000 years ago it's hard to blame it on human activity but they do blame it on human-induced climate change:

"Human-caused climate change has triggered wind shifts in Antarctica, according to a new study, driving accelerated melting across the continent's west coast."

Wind shifts caused by human-induced global warming cause of West Antarctic's melting ice - UPI.com

Human-caused climate change has triggered wind shifts in Antarctica, according to a new study, driving accelerated melting across the continent's west coast.

www.upi.com

"The region’s future is, to some degree, in our hands. The study authors also looked at how Antarctica’s wind patterns would respond if humans are able to reduce the production of greenhouse gases—or if they do not do so. “If we carry on emitting greenhouse gases at an uncontrolled rate, then by 2100, we’ll have winds that reliably blow toward the east”—meaning the winds that bring in the layer of deep warm water, Holland explains."

The Reason Antarctica Is Melting: Shifting Winds, Driven by Global Warming

A new study helps solve the puzzle of why the continent’s western glaciers are melting so fast

www.scientificamerican.com

Global warming is melting Antarctic ice from below | John Abraham

John Abraham: Warming oceans melting Antarctic ice shelves could accelerate sea level rise

www.theguardian.com

A new way of measuring ice melt in Antarctica, Greenland sounds alarm about global sea level rise

Global sea levels have risen 0.55 inches since 2003 due to ice melt in Antarctica and Greenland driven by climate change according to new data measurements from several NASA satellites.

www.cnbc.com

Antarctica could melt 'irreversibly' due to climate change, study warns

The change will take thousands of years, but we only have a century to stop it.

www.livescience.com