stimulating housing demand will cure the economy

[EdwardBaiamonte]

your party is going to deserve the death it is creating for itself

More violent rhetoric from the Party Of Civility In Public Discourse.

partys die from time to time in history.



yours is commiting suicide and Im tired of trying to keep you from doing it.

Im warn out on that one so just kill your party already

Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for limited government or freedom from liberal government. Why do liberals hate freedom? Can you hate freedom without hating America? Would you be happier in Cuba?

 

[Rshermr]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... "
Thomas Jefferson
What you do not care to recognize is that our founding fathers had as much fear of corporations as the federal government. Ever heard of the west indies tea company???? And most importantly, of corporations controlling government.

So, your idiotic questions about liberals do not justify response. It is simply ed, the tea party tool, trying to say nasty things about those who would differ from his tea party bosses.

 

[P@triot]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... "
Thomas Jefferson
What you do not care to recognize is that our founding fathers had as much fear of corporations as the federal government. Ever heard of the west indies tea company???? And most importantly, of corporations controlling government.

So, your idiotic questions about liberals do not justify response. It is simply ed, the tea party tool, trying to say nasty things about those who would differ from his tea party bosses.

Last time I checked, corporations do not own nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, biological weapons, automatic weapons, armored vehicles, guided missiles, and state of the art technology ranging from intelligence gathering to weapons of mass destruction. The only one's who fear corporations are Communists, Marxists, and Socialists.

 

[Rshermr]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... "
Thomas Jefferson
What you do not care to recognize is that our founding fathers had as much fear of corporations as the federal government. Ever heard of the west indies tea company???? And most importantly, of corporations controlling government.

So, your idiotic questions about liberals do not justify response. It is simply ed, the tea party tool, trying to say nasty things about those who would differ from his tea party bosses.

Last time I checked, corporations do not own nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, biological weapons, automatic weapons, armored vehicles, guided missiles, and state of the art technology ranging from intelligence gathering to weapons of mass destruction. The only one's who fear corporations are Communists, Marxists, and Socialists.

And the founding fathers. And you, if you had a clue.

 

[P@triot]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... "
Thomas Jefferson
What you do not care to recognize is that our founding fathers had as much fear of corporations as the federal government. Ever heard of the west indies tea company???? And most importantly, of corporations controlling government.

So, your idiotic questions about liberals do not justify response. It is simply ed, the tea party tool, trying to say nasty things about those who would differ from his tea party bosses.

Last time I checked, corporations do not own nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, biological weapons, automatic weapons, armored vehicles, guided missiles, and state of the art technology ranging from intelligence gathering to weapons of mass destruction. The only one's who fear corporations are Communists, Marxists, and Socialists.

And the founding fathers. And you, if you had a clue.

More misinformation, lies, and propaganda from the nazi liberal. Our founders intentionally designed a government with limited powers. No where did they write legislation to limit corporations out of "fear" of them. You lose, but thanks for playing...

 

[Truthmatters]

More violent rhetoric from the Party Of Civility In Public Discourse.

partys die from time to time in history.



yours is commiting suicide and Im tired of trying to keep you from doing it.

Im warn out on that one so just kill your party already

Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for limited government or freedom from liberal government. Why do liberals hate freedom? Can you hate freedom without hating America? Would you be happier in Cuba?

So you claim the founders would back the republican election cheating?

 

[Truthmatters]

 

[P@triot]

partys die from time to time in history.



yours is commiting suicide and Im tired of trying to keep you from doing it.

Im warn out on that one so just kill your party already

Jefferson founded the Republican Party in 1792 to stand for limited government or freedom from liberal government. Why do liberals hate freedom? Can you hate freedom without hating America? Would you be happier in Cuba?

So you claim the founders would back the republican election cheating?

Only a liberal would claim that showing ID is "cheating"

 

[P@triot]

(R) Admits Voter ID Laws About Helping Romney Win Election - YouTube

Rather than sharing your dreams and wishes - why won't you answer the question? Afraid it proves you are wrong?

Hey Lies - where is your outrage at having to produce your drivers license for many of the occassions that require it? I don't see your concern for "disenfranchising" drivers...

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation,

dear, this is why the banks don't control the currency. The government does through what they call the Fed. Why not look it up??
Welcome to Econ 101, class one day one?

 

[Rshermr]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation,

dear, this is why the banks don't control the currency. The government does through what they call the Fed. Why not look it up??
Welcome to Econ 101, class one day one?

Ed, my tea party simpleton. You think you are profound. And that someone out there does not know what the fed is. For Christ sake, ed. Stop being such a simpleton. Try to understand what Jefferson meant instead of throwing out a few more tea party one liners. Jesus, you are a imbecile. and as usual, a tea party tool.

 

[Rshermr]

Last time I checked, corporations do not own nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, biological weapons, automatic weapons, armored vehicles, guided missiles, and state of the art technology ranging from intelligence gathering to weapons of mass destruction. The only one's who fear corporations are Communists, Marxists, and Socialists.

And the founding fathers. And you, if you had a clue.

More misinformation, lies, and propaganda from the nazi liberal. Our founders intentionally designed a government with limited powers. No where did they write legislation to limit corporations out of "fear" of them. You lose, but thanks for playing...

Glad you think I lost, But, believe it or not, I do not consider you to be the one who determines who wins. What you misunderstand, among many things that you misunderstand, is that corporations are not federal entities. They are state entities. But, if you cared to look, simply google founding fathers and corporations and you will see how wrong you are about their concerns with corporations. And that the states were where the laws were established to control corporations.

By the way, as a tea party supporter, ever heard of the east india tea company?????
Next

 

[Widdekind]

Stimulating Housing Demand

Since 2008, UE has increased by over 4%. According to Okun's Law, that much UE reduces GDP by 8%. So, aggregate spending has fallen by about $1.5T per year. Now, before 2008, the "velocity" of money (MV1) was nearly 10 dollars of spending per dollar per year. So, if the US economy were healthy, then about $150B would, over the course of a year, generate $1500B of spending (as the money changed hands, over and over, throughout the year).

Now, since 2008, US homeowners have paid back nearly $1T of mortgage debt, over 4 years. And, when debt borrowed from banks, is paid back to banks, then the money cancels out the debt, and vanishes. Thus, debt-strapped homeowners have been foregoing over $200B per year of spending, to pay back banks. That has been contracting the money supply by $200B each year (offset by the Fed). If, instead, that much money were spent, into the economy; then, that money would have entered the "stream of spending", and generated up to $2000B per year of transactions (as the money changed hands, over and over, throughout the year). (Relatedly, since 2006, total construction spending has slowed by $400B per year, mostly due to slowed spending on new homes. So, people are borrowing less, to buy new homes; construction slumps; builders become unemployed. And, people are spending less, to pay back bank loans, on existing homes; hardware stores, electronics stores, and restaurants are empty; unemployment rises further.)

Economist Mike Konczal observed, that economic data corroborates, that debt-strapped homeowners, "panicking" about their mortgages, have siphoned so much money out of the stream of spending, across the country, that GDP has fallen sharply (-$1.5T / year). In turn, UE has risen (+4%), as companies, having lost customers, across the economy, shed employees. If interest-rates are 0%, then perhaps homeowners could (somehow) re-finance their mortgages? (That option was discusses, and dismissed, in the video.) Konczal stated, that the "microeconomic data" all show, that communities having the highest debt (to income?) ratios have the slowest wage & employment growth. In those towns, everybody is foregoing spending, to pay back their banks; and all the businesses & restaurants close. And, what is true on the micro- scale, becomes true on the macro- scale too.



comparison to the Great Depression

From 1929-1933, bank deposits decreased by nearly $16B, split equally between checking & savings deposits. ($1.3B of which were wiped out in bank failures.) Thus, amidst the flurry of deleveraging, of debtors repaying creditors (e.g. businesses paying back bond-holders), money also wended its way back to banks, to pay off bank loans (e.g. mortgages), and “vanished” (bank assets (loans) co-cancelling bank liabilities (deposits)), contracting the money supply. Now, in the 1920s, the speed of spending (velocity, MV1) had been about 3-4. Every dollar in circulation [$] generated 3-4 dollars of spending per year [$/year], as it changed hands, over & over, across the economy, over the course of the year. Thus, gradually eliminating MONEY [$16B, over 4 years] out of the stream of spending, would have eliminated 3-4x as much SPENDING [$50-60B per 4 years] by 3-4x as much. Indeed, from 1929-1933, nominal GDP fell by nearly $50B.

At the time, economist Irving Fisher suggested that debt was causing the crisis. But his critics argued:

“debt-deflation represented no more than a redistribution from one group (debtors) to another (creditors). Absent implausibly large differences in marginal spending propensities among the groups … pure redistributions should have no significant macroeconomic effects.”

So, a business buys back its bonds, paying off bond-holders, who then go golfing, and eat out at expensive restaurants. When NON-BANK debt is repaid, money merely changes hands. The kind of spending may change (business investment to personal consumption), but not the degree.

But when BANK debt is repaid, the money “vanishes”. Bank accountants simultaneously co-cancel the loan, and the money (bank deposit) used to pay off the loan. The money supply contracts. And “disappeared” money has ZERO propensity to be spent. Once the money is eliminated, it can no longer change hands, and stimulate a series of spendings in the economy.

So, BANK debt is different from NON-BANK debt. Irving Fisher’s critics were correct, about the latter. But debt DEFLATION, from paying back banks, and contracting the money supply, does not transfer money, but eliminates money. Eliminated money cannot be spent; its “propensity to be spent” is zero. That represents a “surprisingly large” difference in spending propensity, between debtors (e.g. mortgaged home-owners, borrowing money, to pay builders) and creditors (banks, trimming down their balance sheets, eliminating money) So, everybody was always (partially) correct. Debt reduction is crucial to understanding depressions. And (perhaps) especially BANK DEBT REDUCTION.

 

[editec]

Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation,

dear, this is why the banks don't control the currency. The government does through what they call the Fed. Why not look it up??
Welcome to Econ 101, class one day one?

You really don't know doodle squat economic history, do you?

The government controls the FED?

You might want to ask Nixon, Ford, Carter and Reagan about that.

They might have a very different POV about who CONTROLS the Fed.

Because they know, unlike you, apparently, that the FED decides for itself.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Because they know, unlike you, apparently, that the FED decides for itself.

and if the Presidents don't like it they can find a new chairman!! sorry!! THe government created and controls the Fed. Econ 101. sorry

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But when BANK debt is repaid, the money “vanishes”. .

of course thats not true. The Fed largely determines whether money vanishes or not through open market operations not those who pay off loans or bank accountants.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But, if you cared to look, simply google founding fathers and corporations

too stupid and perfectly liberal as usual. Founders had no concerns about corporations since there were no corporations to speak of. Those that did exist were huge crony capitalist organizations granted monopolies by European governments for the benefit of the government!!!

 

[Widdekind]

But when BANK debt is repaid, the money “vanishes”. .

of course thats not true.

wrong -- borrowing from banks expands the money supply; paying back banks reverses the process, "undoing" the expansion, and contracts the money supply.

Separately, the Fed can expand or contract the money supply, to offset such effects

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But when BANK debt is repaid, the money “vanishes”. .

of course thats not true.

wrong -- borrowing from banks expands the money supply; paying back banks reverses the process, "undoing" the expansion, and contracts the money supply.

Separately, the Fed can expand or contract the money supply, to offset such effects

all agree Fed is most important in making money vanish and disappear. In fact it is their main reason for being. Banks can be making new loans as they are repaid and so not changing money supply so long as they maintain reserve requirement.

 

[P@triot]

And the founding fathers. And you, if you had a clue.

More misinformation, lies, and propaganda from the nazi liberal. Our founders intentionally designed a government with limited powers. No where did they write legislation to limit corporations out of "fear" of them. You lose, but thanks for playing...

Glad you think I lost, But, believe it or not, I do not consider you to be the one who determines who wins. What you misunderstand, among many things that you misunderstand, is that corporations are not federal entities. They are state entities. But, if you cared to look, simply google founding fathers and corporations and you will see how wrong you are about their concerns with corporations. And that the states were where the laws were established to control corporations.

By the way, as a tea party supporter, ever heard of the east india tea company?????
Next

Oh my God! A liberal acknowledging the difference between federal government and state government?!?! This is unprecedented!

Still, that makes your argument that much weaker... But it is nice to see when a liberal thinks it will be advantageous to them, they will actually acknowledge the difference between state and federal.