Steroids A Mainstay In Baseball's Lineup

[Gunny]

(CBS/AP) The long-awaited report slammed home what many had long been suspected: illegal drugs were part of the lineup of every team in Major League Baseball beginning in the mid 1990s.

"Those who have illegally used these substances range from players whose major league careers were brief to potential members of the Baseball Hall of Fame," former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell wrote in his much-anticipated report on performance-enhancing drugs.

"They include both pitchers and position players, and their backgrounds are as diverse as those of all major league players."

Seven MVPs, two Cy Young Award winners and 31 All-Stars - one for every position. In all, the 409-page report identified 85 names to differing degrees, putting question marks if not asterisks in the record book and threatening the integrity of the game itself.

more ... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/14/sports/main3618184.shtml

It never fails to boggle my mind that this is a kid's game run amock.

 

[Paulie]

It never fails to boggle my mind that this is a kid's game run amock.

Don't pretend that every other sport that has any significance whatsoever, doesn't include many players who are juicing.

Even the damn BICYCLISTS are on the juice these days.

The only way I see it as a real negative, is when considering specific statistical achievements, and whether or not to take them into consideration for certain award recognition.

Bonds can have his name engraved in the sports records books for most HR all time all he WANTS, but everyone is going to know that it's tainted, and that might even be considered worse than not even being at the top of the list to begin with.

I read the Mitchell report pretty extensively today, and the player I see as having the most benefit from steroids was Roger Clemens. He would typically hit the juice mid-season, when his old age was starting to hamper his abilities at that point in the season. And then his numbers skyrocketed. It was basically his 'fountain of youth'.

Regardless of ANY of these baseball players steroid use, excluding some of the no-namers i had never even heard of to begin with, they were all still phenomenal athletes naturally. Bonds still has H.O.F. numbers even WITHOUT the juice. I still say he shouldn't be allowed to be the indisputable HR king, though.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

If everyone was juicing, the playing field was fair. Let all the records stand.

 

[Gunny]

Don't pretend that every other sport that has any significance whatsoever, doesn't include many players who are juicing.

Even the damn BICYCLISTS are on the juice these days.

The only way I see it as a real negative, is when considering specific statistical achievements, and whether or not to take them into consideration for certain award recognition.

Bonds can have his name engraved in the sports records books for most HR all time all he WANTS, but everyone is going to know that it's tainted, and that might even be considered worse than not even being at the top of the list to begin with.

I read the Mitchell report pretty extensively today, and the player I see as having the most benefit from steroids was Roger Clemens. He would typically hit the juice mid-season, when his old age was starting to hamper his abilities at that point in the season. And then his numbers skyrocketed. It was basically his 'fountain of youth'.

Regardless of ANY of these baseball players steroid use, excluding some of the no-namers i had never even heard of to begin with, they were all still phenomenal athletes naturally. Bonds still has H.O.F. numbers even WITHOUT the juice. I still say he shouldn't be allowed to be the indisputable HR king, though.

I'm well-aware of the pervasive use of steroids in almost all sports. Where I see the problem here is separating ethic from legal.

At the base level, IMO, if people want to juice, it's their dimes their bodies. Just don't come whining to me later when you're suffering from heart problems, liver/kidney failure and/or your joints being to deteriorate at the rapid rate.

At the competitive level, they should test all athletes across the board simply to level the playing field. Steroids are illegal to possess, use and/or distribute. Simple as that. That means only those willing to break the law and/or basically cheat to get ahead benefit from them.

Where I have a problem with this naming names and revising history is WHERE do you stop? Steroids were not illegal prior to 1983, nor were they tested for. So how do we know Mickey Mantle of Joltin' Joe weren't juicing? Steroids have been around in the athletic world since the 40s.

I'm not sure what the answer is. Obviously there is no easy one, and no matter what it is, it will not satisfy everyone.

 

[Paulie]

I guess the biggest issue is that they are illegal. Not only was competition unfair because of it, but laws were broken.

I still think the MLB allowed this to get big (knowing full well of it, just like anyone else who looked at these guys' bodies expand did), because after '94, baseball was in jeopardy of losing all credibility.

A lot of things happened in MLB leading up to the '95 season, and I think steroids were a big part of bringing back the interest.

I mean, look what the NHL has done to try and bring back THAT sport. It's like the playstation games now. There's expanded point systems, SHOOTOUTS (which were always the coolest in the video games), the players are crushing the SHIT out of each other these days...

A major sports league is like a major corporation. They'll resort to ANYTHING they can get away with.

I don't just blame the players.

What happened though, was too many people knew, and the secret couldn't be kept forever.

I'm just surprised that Mitchell went to all this trouble. It's strange to me when I see someone in government making a move like this. I always question motivation, but then again, I STAY questioning my government. I never trust them at face value.

 

[Paulie]

If everyone was juicing, the playing field was fair. Let all the records stand.

"everyone" wasn't juicing.

A lot of pitchers that gave up HR's to the juiced up batters, weren't juicing.

Was it fair that their ERA's climbed higher because batters who may have only gotten a fly-out on a specific pitch, instead hit a home-run because they were stronger than they normally would have been?

That's just an example. There are a lot of nameless victims in this too.

 

[Gunny]

I guess the biggest issue is that they are illegal. Not only was competition unfair because of it, but laws were broken.

I still think the MLB allowed this to get big (knowing full well of it, just like anyone else who looked at these guys' bodies expand did), because after '94, baseball was in jeopardy of losing all credibility.

A lot of things happened in MLB leading up to the '95 season, and I think steroids were a big part of bringing back the interest.

I mean, look what the NHL has done to try and bring back THAT sport. It's like the playstation games now. There's expanded point systems, SHOOTOUTS (which were always the coolest in the video games), the players are crushing the SHIT out of each other these days...

A major sports league is like a major corporation. They'll resort to ANYTHING they can get away with.

I don't just blame the players.

What happened though, was too many people knew, and the secret couldn't be kept forever.

I'm just surprised that Mitchell went to all this trouble. It's strange to me when I see someone in government making a move like this. I always question motivation, but then again, I STAY questioning my government. I never trust them at face value.

I don't see it as all that strange. Steroids have been villified since the early 80s and are fair game. The PC crowd allows you to be discriminatory to both steroids and users, just as they do smokers and cigarettes.

And in keeping with the usual, the witchhunting and propaganda has exceeded anything that might be reality. Anabolic steroids have an actual, beneficial medical application. Just mention the word to most people though and they almost go into a 'roid rage without benefit of the drugs. Such is their ignorance on the topic.

This guy just made a name for himself. Did you know who he was prior to this? Why is the US Federal govt investigating a professional sport? Souldn't they be working on securing our Southern border?

Your tax dollars at work.

 

[iamwill]

If you aint cheating, you aint trying
Let these boy roid up

We all knew this was going on, but we turned away from it

 

[Gunny]

If you aint cheating, you aint trying
Let these boy roid up

We all knew this was going on, but we turned away from it

Nothing like personal integrity, huh?

 

[onedomino]

These guys were cheating and doing something illegal. I do not think we should honor their performances. Perhaps the most important thing about cheating and illegal behavior justified by whatever rationalization is the negative affect such behavior has on young people. The lesson is that everything is fair in the name of winning. We know that is not true but young people often display uneducated judgment. Plus the heroes of sports using steroids can teach young people to disregard the very bad ramifications that such drugs have on the body and mind.

 

[Gunny]

These guys were cheating and doing something illegal. I do not think we should honor their performances. Perhaps the most important thing about cheating and illegal behavior justified by whatever rationalization is the negative affect such behavior has on young people. The lesson is that everything is fair in the name of winning. We know that is not true but young people often display uneducated judgment. Plus the heroes of sports using steroids can teach young people to disregard the very bad ramifications that such drugs have on the body and mind.

There's certainly an issue here, but not so cut and dried as you "cheating and illegal." Professional sports as a whole has turned a blind eye to it, so the respective organizations are just as guilty, if not moreso.

I guess we "could" revise the record books back to 1983. But then what about thiose who were using and weren't caught? Got a new test? The masking agent will be a couple of months behind.

IMO, they need to quit wasting money on pointing fingers and get to solving the problem. Steroids are illegal. As far as I know, it is also against the rules to use them in most major professional sports.

That being the case, ethically it IS cheating to use them because only those willing to violate the law/rules will use them.

What they need to do is let the US Marine Corps administer the drug testing. Trust me, no stone will be left unturned, and you're like as not to get tested on Friday and come back in on Monday and get tested again.

Personally, I think IF they prove Bonds guilty of using steroids, his record should be stricken. He may very well be a phenominal athlete without them, but he took an unfair and illegal advantage that those who followed the rules did not have and the fact is, steroids DO enhance sports performance regardless what one is capable of without them.