Star Wars, Empire and the US

[wolverine]

I hesitate to comment further on the Star War movie series because like much else the people in this forum have limited knowledge of them like you have limited knowledge in a lot of areas.

George Lucas based his stories and characters on myths that have universal appeal in all nations or groups of people in the world. Thats why the stories have worked so well. Lucas entertained Joesph Campbell at his famous ranch and their talks were on PBS and hosted by Bill Moyers. You all were probably playing video games or reading comic books and you missed it. (Joesph Campbell was an expert on myths of civilizations)

There are great themes that the movies deal with and sure enough parallels can be drawn between characters in the movies and people who are now on the world stage.

Every movie fan roots for the rebels and exults in the downfall of those on the Dark Side. Its not my fault, or George Lucas's fault or the fault of the writer of the article above that your heros in real life seem to come from the Dark Side. Read it and weep. What can I say?

On the positive side we can take pleasure in knowing how things will end and that eventually America will survive because those on the dark side will self destruct.

Didn't we know it would end that way? Men like those on the Dark Side always have bad endings. Hitler, Stalin etc etc etc.

You're some piece of work. You insinuate that Lucas somehow knew that Bush would be president when he wrote this saga. Live action footage for Episode 3 was filmed in 2003, and Lucas knew that Bush would win re-election. People draw what parallels they want. They read into things they want. Revenge of the Sith was a great movie. Unfortunately, you have a problem seperating it from reality.

May the Dean Scream be with you. Always.

 

[yeula]

You're some piece of work. You insinuate that Lucas somehow knew that Bush would be president when he wrote this saga. Live action footage for Episode 3 was filmed in 2003, and Lucas knew that Bush would win re-election. People draw what parallels they want. They read into things they want. Revenge of the Sith was a great movie. Unfortunately, you have a problem seperating it from reality.

May the Dean Scream be with you. Always.

-----

now now there is no need to belittle Howard Dean just because you are frustrated with me. Dean is a smart guy. He is a doctor. A healer. He means you no harm. He also has a right to run for public office. If you don't like what he stands for then make your case as to why you don't but don't demean yourself by attacking him. You're bigger then that are you not?

This is very difficult because evidently you are not aware of the work of Joeshp Campbell so I have to explain it to you. People such as Campbell consider the stories in the Bible to be myths. He has studied not only the myths of the Jews but those of every other nation or tribe on Earth. All the myths of every group are essentially the same with certain small differences.

For instance, every group has a creation story. In the story the creator comes to create the earth and then goes back somewhere into the sky. According to Jewish myth Heaven, Greek myth Olympus etc.

You can buy the books of Joesph Campbell on Amazon so see for yourself. Its very interesting.

As I stated the themes in these myths are universal. The theme of empire was used in the Star War stories. Even the first trilogy which happened years ago. The theme of empire is being played out in America. Lucas had already written the story. but the theme is universal.

As coincidence would have it bush came to power and he and the neo-cons launched their pre-emptive wars. they intend to invade iran in June. they intend to "rearrange" the middle east. they are building US Bases all around the area.

This is not my doing. I didn't write Star Wars and I didn't plan the rearrangement of the middle east. Its not my fault that the empire builders in Star Wars were from the Dark Side of the force. Its not my doing that there are parallels.

May I respectfully ask that you think objectively about this? Are those who attempt to build empires evil or from the Dark side? Will people always throw off their oppressors because by our natures we must be free to determine our own destinity and not be oppressed by a dark force?

This parallel should serve to give you something to think about. You don't have to react with anger. I didn't do anything but give you information. Why do you fear or hate new thoughts? Why are you so vested in Bush and the rightwing? Why not vest in something that you can defend or feel good about?

The Iraqis did nothing to us. Saddam may have been evil but what was that to us? There are a lot of evil people around and we could have started in Cuba if we wanted to clean up every nation on Earth.

No I think what we have here are empire builders. Plain and simple. There is no good in demonizing Saddam because it is the Iraqi people we are bombing and killing and oppressing and whose country we are occupying. They didn't do anything to us. they yearn to breathe free. That is their Universal right and we know that because we're Americans.

Calmly answer me. Or don't. think about it. or don't. You're a big boy. I'm no threat to you. get a grip.

 

[Markainion]

On the positive side we can take pleasure in knowing how things will end and that eventually America will survive because those on the dark side will self destruct.

Didn't we know it would end that way? Men like those on the Dark Side always have bad endings. Hitler, Stalin etc etc etc.

You know I can’t tell who you think the evil empire is. Is it the Republicans, is I the Democrats, or is it America in general. All agree with you that some things currently being allowed, such as Americans massing massive amount of debt. Should be addressed. But I won’t agree with you that a conspiracy going back to the Civil War is turning America into an evil empire.

Stalin and Hitler are extremes in history; they came about because of foolish leaders or events that suppressed the population. Such as the Russian nobility and German being forced to pay war compensation to allied countries after World War I. The United States has been an inspiration to the world, bringing about democracy through out the world, and giving our former enemies aid, such as the Marshal Plan, instead of forcing their desperate citizen to pay us back compensation for our losses.

This is not the act of an Evil Empire; it is the act of a great country.

 

[Markainion]

The Iraqis did nothing to us. Saddam may have been evil but what was that to us? There are a lot of evil people around and we could have started in Cuba if we wanted to clean up every nation on Earth.

No I think what we have here are empire builders. Plain and simple. There is no good in demonizing Saddam because it is the Iraqi people we are bombing and killing and oppressing and whose country we are occupying. They didn't do anything to us. they yearn to breathe free. That is their Universal right and we know that because we're Americans.

Calmly answer me. Or don't. think about it. or don't. You're a big boy. I'm no threat to you. get a grip.

How are we hurting the Iraqis, Saddam was suppressive and evil using chemical weapons on citizens, something that the United States has never done. Maybe the United States didn’t have to go into Iraq, maybe the United States didn’t have to do anything, but that doesn’t mean we were wrong to do so.

 

[yeula]

Markainion you stated a part of US history where we did good things. We rebuilt Europe after we saved it from Hitler. At that point it was Hitler who wanted an empire. Those he sought to rule fought with everything they had to keep their freedom. Rightly so I think. So shouldn't Iraqis fight with everything they have to fight off those who would rule them?

The people of Iraq were not evil just because Saddam was. the people of the US do not want empire just because Bush and the neo-cons do.

I love America. I love and will defend the US Constitution. I believe in rule of law and not men.

What are we without the US constitution? What are we?

Without the constitution we have nothing.

Without the constitution Bush can do anything he pleases. Without the Constitution the Supreme court can choose our leaders and not count the votes of citizens who are guaranteed a vote.

I love America. Thats why I want to keep the Constitution.

I have called for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and John Kerry to be brought to justice because they voted for the Resolution to give the Executive Branch the power to start a war which breaks the US Constitution.

I will put no person above the United States Constitution. Its all we have.

Pre-emptive war is illegal. Period. Who is the dark side. you tell me.

 

[Markainion]

Markainion you stated a part of US history where we did good things. We rebuilt Europe after we saved it from Hitler. At that point it was Hitler who wanted an empire. Those he sought to rule fought with everything they had to keep their freedom. Rightly so I think. So shouldn't Iraqis fight with everything they have to fight off those who would rule them?

The people of Iraq were not evil just because Saddam was. the people of the US do not want empire just because Bush and the neo-cons do.

I love America. I love and will defend the US Constitution. I believe in rule of law and not men.

What are we without the US constitution? What are we?

Without the constitution we have nothing.

Without the constitution Bush can do anything he pleases. Without the Constitution the Supreme court can choose our leaders and not count the votes of citizens who are guaranteed a vote.

I love America. Thats why I want to keep the Constitution.

I have called for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and John Kerry to be brought to justice because they voted for the Resolution to give the Executive Branch the power to start a war which breaks the US Constitution.

I will put no person above the United States Constitution. Its all we have.

Pre-emptive war is illegal. Period. Who is the dark side. you tell me.

Bush may have started the war in Iraq for a few questionable motives. Such as wanting to finish what is father failed to do 10 years earlier, and maybe even because of the desire of oil. That doesn’t mean he wants to surprises the Iraqi, as far as I can tell, only the former ruling minority and a few foreign terrorist are causing trouble. The great majority of Iraqis are on their way to freedom, and the US is largely responsible for this.

 

[insein]

This will be pointless but here goes.

Markainion you stated a part of US history where we did good things. We rebuilt Europe after we saved it from Hitler. At that point it was Hitler who wanted an empire. Those he sought to rule fought with everything they had to keep their freedom. Rightly so I think. So shouldn't Iraqis fight with everything they have to fight off those who would rule them?

The iraqis arent the ones fighting. Most of the insurgents are foreign terrorists bombing the general population rather than attacking american troops. They are also receiving funding from foreign governments in the region.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006724
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16698&highlight=insurgents+attack+citizens
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=268185

The people of Iraq were not evil just because Saddam was. the people of the US do not want empire just because Bush and the neo-cons do.

No the people of Iraq arent evil. That is why the US did not attack the people of Iraq. They eliminated the Iraqi army and are now eliminating the foreign terrorists that currently are masquerading as insurgents.

For you second inane statement, explain your reasoning into thinking Bush wants an empire when he hasnt claimed any new territory or taken over any new lands? Also explain Neo-Con. Is it there a real definition or is it simple a parroted talking point from your playbook, moveon?

I love America. I love and will defend the US Constitution. I believe in rule of law and not men.

Laws were written by men. Men currently manipulate laws. An example would be the the past 5 years of illegal blcoking of judges in the Congress to receive a yay/nay vote. Rather then vote to either accept or decline these judges, they are not given any vote at all through unconstitutional blockings from a power hungry and desperate minority.

What are we without the US constitution? What are we?

Nothing. which is why we need to take it back from Idealogue judges who interpret meanings from it that dont exist. The law is the law. There is no new interpretations of it. If you want a new law passed, you pass it through the legislative branch. You dont deem it so from the judicial.

Without the constitution we have nothing.

Without the constitution Bush can do anything he pleases. Without the Constitution the Supreme court can choose our leaders and not count the votes of citizens who are guaranteed a vote.

In theory, with no constitution a totalitarian state would exists where a ruler would simply declare himself such. We've never had that occur in the 229 year history of this great nation had a man declare himself supreme ruler. nor have we had the Supreme court or any other body declare such a ruler.

I have called for Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and John Kerry to be brought to justice because they voted for the Resolution to give the Executive Branch the power to start a war which breaks the US Constitution.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.j.res.00064:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:S.J.RES.23:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/CongressionalRecordHJ64&LeeStmt.htm

SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) In General.--That the President is authorized to use
all necessary and appropriate force against those nations,
organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized,
committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on
September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or
persons, in order to prevent any further acts of
international terrorism against the United States by such
nations, organizations or persons.

[/b]

Pretty cut and dry.

I will put no person above the United States Constitution. Its all we have.

Pre-emptive war is illegal. Period. Who is the dark side. you tell me.

Those that try to cloud the issue and protect evil. The terrorists are the evil. Those that fund them are evil. Those that harbor them are evil. Those that cloud the issue by portraying the only ones to stand up to them as the agressor are evil.

Much like the empire portrays the rebellion as evil, the media declares US and its allies as the wrong doers for confronting evil. Much like the emperor delcares the jedi, the only defenders of freedom as enemies of the republic, so to do socialists and communists around the world declare America an enemy to the world that must be stopped.

Open your eyes. Evil stares you in the face. If you do not confront it, it will destory you as the emperor destroyed the senate. You use a simple parrellel equating Bush to the empire because they are rulers. However a direct parrallel would be that an evil religion (Sith = Islam) wishes to rule the world. It will do anything to achieve this goal. Lie, cheat, kill, deceive; All those who follow this religion will stop at nothing to achieve its goal. Those that confront it are labeled as agressors when in fact they are the defenders. The US is the last great hope for the world to have freedom. We should embrace it.

 

[yeula]

There is a wealth of information regarding the neo-cons and who and what they are. I would have to ask all of you how you can be so cock sure of everything when you didn't even know about the neo-cons or about bin laden's public letters to the American people? However I do appreciate that you are now willing to ask questions and learn

The neo-cons have a web site

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Visit this site and read the pertinent information at the top of the page

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

http://home.earthlink.net/~platter/neo-conservatism/pnac.html

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0309&article=030911

google it there are hundreds of articles

Neo-cons means new conservatives. These are people who used to be Socialists - yes my dears you support people who used to be Socialists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kristol

Almost every single neo-con's family came to this country after the nazi holocaust. Now they have planned and are carrying out a holocaust against other people using the US government.

 

[yeula]

Mark I cannot understand your thinking - you say Bush just wanted to finish what his father started - well I'd like to rob a bank and take all the money.

It doesn't matter what I want if what I want is illegal. You say we are not hurting the Iraqi people - we dropped tens of thousands of pounds of bombs on them. We shocked and awed them.

If the people who are fighting us are insurgents I would have to ask how in the hell they got into Iraq? If the war has spread and other nations are now involved then that means bush is a failure as a war president.

Fallujah is called The City of Mosques. We leveled it. Make no mistake it is the people of Iraq who are fighting us. If the people of Iraq were truly free we would pull out of their country and let them run it. how many bases has the US built in that area?

the goal of the neo-cons and ISRAEL is to break up the Arab world into smaller areas where local tribal leaders are in control That way there will be no strong, large entity able to fight Israel. There will be only groups of small tribes that are seperate from each other and possibly warring with each other. Iraq is now broken up. No threat to Israel. That is the method the Jews in Israel use against the Palestinians. They keep their settlements sperate from each other so they can't get together and fight the jews. They control very aspect of Palestinian life from the water they drink to their sewers.

What you all are doing is repeating what you hear on Fox news or from Rush Limbaugh or from some other rightwing source. Doesn't everyone know that Fox is rightwing? They are telling you just what they want you to think and not the facts. People like you are commonly known as "dittoheads" because you merely ditto what you are told.

We had no legal right to invade Iraq. What saddam was doing is irrelavant. We had no right to go there. We are now occupying Iraq. Any country that is occupied by a foreign country is a colonial possession. The people of Iraq no longer own their what they owned under saddam. Everything in Iraq has been privatized.

http://www.iraqresistance.net/article.php3?id_article=346

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030428&s=klein

 

[wolverine]

now now there is no need to belittle Howard Dean just because you are frustrated with me. Dean is a smart guy. He is a doctor. A healer. He means you no harm. He also has a right to run for public office. If you don't like what he stands for then make your case as to why you don't but don't demean yourself by attacking him. You're bigger then that are you not?

He did run for office. He stated his case. The people did not buy it.

get a grip.

I have. It's called reality.

Can't wait 'till Fantastic Four comes out.
I can see it now:

Bush is Dr. Doom.