Speech from Majority Leader Tom DeLay

[ajwps]

It appears that the American army of occupation is finally catching on and sending the airforce and army to destroy large numbers of anti-coalition Saddam forces in Iraq.

The Iraqi people may be losing their faith in the Americans but if the Pentagon begins to act like an army instead of an occupation force, then the Iraqi people will feel at home.

Just like when Saddam was running the show.

Tom DeLay is a patriot and the whinners on this post are ready to turn tail and run.

I have several of my close relatives now in active service in Iraq and do not relesh their being hurt or killed. But America is either right in preventing the army of Islam from attacking us on our shores or wrong and the superpower America needs to run back home where the bombs of allah can start exploding in New York City and Chicago.

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by ajwps
ITom DeLay is a patriot and the whinners on this post are ready to turn tail and run.

Hmmm, perhaps a patriot, perhaps a felon. The two are not mutually exlusive. Try not to be so rude to your fellow posters. We may disagree, that doesn't make either of us a whinner. Your post was very long on how you feel about events, but short on why anybody else should agree.

the Iraqi people will feel at home. Just like when Saddam was running the show.

I'm getting the impression that democracy for the Iraqi people is not one your goals. Am I correct?

I have several of my close relatives now in active service in Iraq and do not relesh their being hurt or killed. But America is either right in preventing the army of Islam from attacking us on our shores or wrong and the superpower America needs to run back home where the bombs of allah can start exploding in New York City and Chicago.

I wish them all the best and hope your relatives come back safe. The "Better Baghdad than Boston" argument is a very weak one ,since you present no evidence one precludes the other. Al-Qaeda took about a decade between the fist WTC attack and the second. Al-Qaeda is still active, just check the news out of SA.

 

[ajwps]

Hmmm, perhaps a patriot, perhaps a felon. The two are not mutually exlusive. Try not to be so rude to your fellow posters. We may disagree, that doesn't make either of us a whinner. Your post was very long on how you feel about events, but short on why anybody else should agree.

Yes you are correct. Abraham Lincoln was a patriot perhaps or a felon to those who were unhappy about the loss of their cause. What is a terrorist to one is a freedom fighter to another.

It is the perception of those whose ox is gored that makes that dinstinction.

Rude? For those who promote retreat when all one has at one's disposal is main stream media's one-sided negativism while many wonderful things are happening for these people can be defined as defeatism. There is nothing personal in defining complaints based on nothing but misperception.

Is is not my goal to see how many should agree with me. You cannot change the mind of those who have already decided.

I'm getting the impression that democracy for the Iraqi people is not one your goals. Am I correct?

Not really. If we live to be 4,000 years old, we will never see democratization of Iraq. The civilization and society of the Iraqi people are not predisposed to living in a world free from being ruled by despots. First of all democracy does not come for free or without the desire of the people to live in equality.

Democracy can no more pushed down the throats of Iraqis than Christianity can be forced on those whose basic beliefs are in direct opposition to these religious beliefs whose god's only directive is to make war.

As for me, I do not wish to impose anything on anyone. That is the difference.

The "Better Baghdad than Boston" argument is a very weak one ,since you present no evidence one precludes the other. Al-Qaeda took about a decade between the fist WTC attack and the second. Al-Qaeda is still active, just check the news out of SA.

Your argument is also very weak as evidenced by that fact that more than two years has passed since 9/11. We are not aware of any attempts to attack our shores nor or we aware of any attempts that have been thwarted by our joint intelligence services. Plus the fact that Pres Bush (and Tom DeLay) have shown resolve in actually retalliating against entities that are percieved enemies. No longer do we have a president who fires multi-million dollar missles into desert aspirin factories or 'walks loudly but carries a small twig.'

From all indications, the enemy who chose to destroy our civilization was surprised by a US response from men who do not make policy by putting one's finger in the air and making decisions on percieved public opinion.

Harry S. Truman was a prime example. He did not listen to polls; he made a decision as he was given the insight to destroy some human life to prevent the much larger loss of millions in a final battle for Japan.

We shall never resolve the enigma of the relation between the negative foundations of greatness and that greatness itself.

ATTRIBUTION: Jean Baudrillard

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by ajwps


Not really. If we live to be 4,000 years old, we will never see democratization of Iraq. The civilization and society of the Iraqi people are not predisposed to living in a world free from being ruled by despots. First of all democracy does not come for free or without the desire of the people to live in equality.

Democracy can no more pushed down the throats of Iraqis than Christianity can be forced on those whose basic beliefs are in direct opposition to these religious beliefs whose god's only directive is to make war.

As for me, I do not wish to impose anything on anyone. That is the difference.

This is a very facile reading of Iraqis. They are a very diverse bunch. The Kurdish North and Shia South for the most part have different goals from the Sunni Center, though we might succeed in uniting them against American subjegation. If we never see the democratization of Iraq it is because we are afraid of what they will do with democracy.

Your argument that Iraqis will never embrace true democracy in 4,000 years is highly suggestive of racial genetic theory and frighteningly Hitleresque. For goodness sake, Britain and France drew the boundaries that now define what is an Iraqi. What is it about people who live within these boundaries that necessary preclude them from becoming democratic at some point in the next 4,000 years?

 

[dijetlo]

posted by ajwps
Yes you are correct. Abraham Lincoln was a patriot perhaps or a felon to those who were unhappy about the loss of their cause.

We were talking about a criminal investigation of Tom Delay and the energy lobby, not Abraham Lincoln.

Ibid
It is the perception of those whose ox is gored that makes that dinstinction.

Naw, we got a book, its' call the "Annotated Criminal Code of the United States". It aviods the whole "gored ox" issue.

Ibid
For those who promote retreat when all one has at one's disposal is main stream media's one-sided negativism while many wonderful things are happening for these people can be defined as defeatism.

Um....well perhaps you know somebody like that but it isn't me. I'm in favor of turning the occupation over to the UN and underwriting it. As far as the "main stream medias" one sided negativism, you can probably blame that on the increasing number of attacks and rising american casualty rates. Turning a blind eye to these facts does not make you well informed, blaming them on the liberal media is foolish, the liberal media is not firing RPGs' and SA7' at our guys.

Ibid
Your argument is also very weak as evidenced by that fact that more than two years has passed since 9/11. We are not aware of any attempts to attack our shores nor or we aware of any attempts that have been thwarted by our joint intelligence services.[/b]

Can you say...Anthrax letters?
How often were we getting attacked before? Are you unaware that the last two foriegn terrorist attacks on the continental US were almost a decade apart? I'll let you in on another little secret. No matter how tight your security is, if they are not afraid to die, some of them will eventually get through, just ask Isreal.

Ibid
As for me, I do not wish to impose anything on anyone. That is the difference.

You want to impose the occupation on the Iraqis don't you?

Ibid
Plus the fact that Pres Bush (and Tom DeLay) have shown resolve in actually retalliating against entities that are percieved enemies.

Attacking percieved enemies is the hallmark of psychotic paranoia. Let's confine our destructive capabilities to demonstrated enemies and maybe the rest of the world will start to play with us again...
Oh, and by the way, you were much more polite in your second post, thank you.

Ibid
Is is not my goal to see how many should agree with me

Then what is your goal in posting on a public message board?

 

[ajwps]

Your argument that Iraqis will never embrace true democracy in 4,000 years is highly suggestive of racial genetic theory and frighteningly Hitleresque. For goodness sake, Britain and France drew the boundaries that now define what is an Iraqi. What is it about people who live within these boundaries that necessary preclude them from becoming democratic at some point in the next 4,000 years?

Your reply is somewhat suggestive of self-righteousness

You are really a funny guy (I presume). You use words like Hitleresque, racial and genetics like you really understand what you are talking about. I really have to stop to chortle for just awhile. You seem to presume that 1,400 years of a religious dogma of the love of death and in a despotism would drive ordinary humans to want freedom and democracy.

You apparently understand nothing about Islam be it Kurdish, Sunii or Shiite and their Qur'an bible. There is nothing genetic, Hitleresque or racial in a people's religious beliefs.

You have been previously made of direct quotes of Islamic translators from Arabic Qur'an into your native tongue. Let's put it this way. I presume you are an American living in the USA. If the armies of Islam captured your birth country, how many generations would it take for you to convert to Islam, Mohammad and disavow democracy?

Is it in your nature to kill your wives when the skin on their wrist shows from below their burkas or your daughter insults your family? Would you like to live in poverty, ignornace and mud huts? Do you think that every aspect of your life would be ordered by your Mullah to follow his interpretation of the Qur'an of Mohammad?

The self-righteous rule out the possibility that they are what has gone wrong.

Attribution: Mason Colley

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by ajwps
If the armies of Islam captured your birth country, how many generations would it take for you to convert to Islam, Mohammad and disavow democracy?

You speak as if Islam and democracy were mutually exclusive. I think that Turkey's stable government shows that they are not.

 

[ajwps]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by ajwps
Yes you are correct. Abraham Lincoln was a patriot perhaps or a felon to those who were unhappy about the loss of their cause.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We were talking about a criminal investigation of Tom Delay and the energy lobby, not Abraham Lincoln.

Are you confused? What criminal investigation of Tom Delay and the energy lobby? If I remember correctly, you are the one who described Congressman Delay as something less than a patriot of these United States. Mr. Delay, without a whimper, takes the slings and arrows of outrageous malicious rumors by the left main stream media as if it were gospel. I simply made an analogy of two great men of honor and integrity. If you are aware of any conviction of Mr. Delay please make us all aware of same.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
It is the perception of those whose ox is gored that makes that dinstinction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Naw, we got a book, its' call the "Annotated Criminal Code of the United States". It aviods the whole "gored ox" issue.

It is good that "we" got a book of criminal offenses but first you have to have proof, indict and try someone before being presumed guilty. Unless of course you have already found Mr. Delay guilty of unsubstantitated rumors which seem to found only in your own mind.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
For those who promote retreat when all one has at one's disposal is main stream media's one-sided negativism while many wonderful things are happening for these people can be defined as defeatism.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Um....well perhaps you know somebody like that but it isn't me. I'm in favor of turning the occupation over to the UN and underwriting it. As far as the "main stream medias" one sided negativism, you can probably blame that on the increasing number of attacks and rising american casualty rates. Turning a blind eye to these facts does not make you well informed, blaming them on the liberal media is foolish, the liberal media is not firing RPGs' and SA7' at our guys.

Alrighty then you should run for President of these United States so that you can turn over Iraq to the very international body whose majority is Muslim and those countries that have a financial interest in the return of Saddam to power and murder.

Freedom from being attacked by foreign powers does not come cheaply or for free. If it wasn't for the liberal media you wouldn't have a skewed idea of reality in a war zone. We continue to maintain US troops in Germany, Korea, Japan, Kosovo and many other previous war zones. I guess you just forgot.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
Your argument is also very weak as evidenced by that fact that more than two years has passed since 9/11. We are not aware of any attempts to attack our shores nor or we aware of any attempts that have been thwarted by our joint intelligence services.[/b]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you say...Anthrax letters?

Can you say some American kook with anthrax? Do you have any proof that these letters were from some foreign terrorist? Please enlighten everyone.

How often were we getting attacked before? Are you unaware that the last two foriegn terrorist attacks on the continental US were almost a decade apart? I'll let you in on another little secret. No matter how tight your security is, if they are not afraid to die, some of them will eventually get through, just ask Isreal.

I would say that decades between attacks is sufficient evidence that America is doing something right. Don't you?

Let me let you in on a little secret as well. Israel has the right but not the will to do what every other Arab country has done with their Palestinian guests. TRANSFER them to anywhere else to live a life where they can blow each other up in the name of being oppressed and subjugated by themselves. If you need the dates of these Arab (Palestinian) transfers from Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Saudia Arabia and many, many more just ask?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
As for me, I do not wish to impose anything on anyone. That is the difference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You want to impose the occupation on the Iraqis don't you?

I don't wish to impose any occupation on the Iraquis or anyone else. I would prefer that they live their own lives, under their own religious government with the caveat that they not use their resources to destroy us instead of feeding and housing their own poverty ridden population.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
Plus the fact that Pres Bush (and Tom DeLay) have shown resolve in actually retalliating against entities that are percieved enemies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attacking perceived enemies is the hallmark of psychotic paranoia. Let's confine our destructive capabilities to demonstrated enemies and maybe the rest of the world will start to play with us again...

The word 'perceived' was used because there are a few who really know the 'enemies' who prepare to use WMD on their neighbors, America or even their own people. Maybe you were made privy to the information that our President and his cabinett lied to the American public for the Texas oil companies.

Oh, and by the way, you were much more polite in your second post, thank you.

Thank you as well.....

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ibid
Is is not my goal to see how many should agree with me
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then what is your goal in posting on a public message board?

My goal is not converting or having people agree with me. But only to see how others think and react to views that may not be their own. Your posts are very enlightening as well.

 

[dijetlo]

ajwps
My goal is not converting or having people agree with me. But only to see how others think and react to views that may not be their own. Your posts are very enlightening as well.

:cof:
:tng:
Oh man, I was rolling around on the floor laughing and I found my cross pen!!!! Thanks ajwps.

 

[ajwps]

Oh man, I was rolling around on the floor laughing and I found my cross pen!!!! Thanks ajwps.

Now you can see that my stated goal is actually working as it is causing you to react.

Okay now that you acknowledge my point, just exactly where did you say Congressman Delay is under indictment for some crime?

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by ajwps
Now you can see that my stated goal is actually working as it is causing you to react.

Okay now that you acknowledge my point, just exactly where did you say Congressman Delay is under indictment for some crime?

Well, I'll tell you what, friend. You claim I said Delay is under indictment, why don't you find the evidence?
If you can find the proof I said that, then I'll talk to you some more, otherwise you're not worth the time.

 

[ajwps]

You speak as if Islam and democracy were mutually exclusive.

I think that Turkey's stable government shows that they are not.

Now that Turkey has a majority Muslim population, is it not interesting that they forbade the US army from using their country as a northern front base of operation in the recent 21 day war resulting in the toppling of Saddam?

As late as March, 2003 in what some analysts see as a blow to Turkey's democratic reform process, the country's constitutional court banned the largest pro-Kurdish democratic party earlier this month, saying it was acting as a front for Kurdish separatist rebels. A true sign of a democracy.

The secular government of Turkey is constantly under guard of its Muslim majority who is leading the country away from its alliances with the democracies of the west and back into the fold of the Islam nations.

From 1975 to 1980, Turkey's unstable coalition governments ruled, led alternately by Demirel and Ecevit. By the end of 1979, an accelerating decline in the economy, coupled with mounting violence from the extreme left and right, led to increasing instability. Demirel's government began an economic stabilization program in early 1980, but by summer, political violence was claiming more than 20 victims daily. A severely divided GNA was unable to elect a new president or to pass other legislation to cope with the crisis. The Kurds fear the Turks because of the fear of being taken over in northern Iraq and the Turks fear that the Kurdish population of Turkey will attempt to form an independent state within Turkey.

Islam and democracy are truly mutually exclusive as the very nature and definitions of the religion of Islam and democracy cannot coexist. That is the reason that Islam envies and hates the western democracies enough to destroy their own children to kill the democracies.

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by ajwps
Now that Turkey has a majority Muslim population, is it not interesting that they forbade the US army from using their country as a northern front base of operation in the recent 21 day war resulting in the toppling of Saddam?

As late as March, 2003 in what some analysts see as a blow to Turkey's democratic reform process, the country's constitutional court banned the largest pro-Kurdish democratic party earlier this month, saying it was acting as a front for Kurdish separatist rebels. A true sign of a democracy.

The secular government of Turkey is constantly under guard of its Muslim majority who is leading the country away from its alliances with the democracies of the west and back into the fold of the Islam nations.

From 1975 to 1980, Turkey's unstable coalition governments ruled, led alternately by Demirel and Ecevit. By the end of 1979, an accelerating decline in the economy, coupled with mounting violence from the extreme left and right, led to increasing instability. Demirel's government began an economic stabilization program in early 1980, but by summer, political violence was claiming more than 20 victims daily. A severely divided GNA was unable to elect a new president or to pass other legislation to cope with the crisis. The Kurds fear the Turks because of the fear of being taken over in northern Iraq and the Turks fear that the Kurdish population of Turkey will attempt to form an independent state within Turkey.

Islam and democracy are truly mutually exclusive as the very nature and definitions of the religion of Islam and democracy cannot coexist. That is the reason that Islam envies and hates the western democracies enough to destroy their own children to kill the democracies.

Nice work of plagiarism. Check out http://www.ncbuy.com/reference/country/backgrounds.html?code=tu&sec=backgovernment . Do you really think that anyone slightly familiar with English grammar and your previous posts is going to believe that the middle paragraphs above are your writing?

As for the matter at hand, Turkey is not a perfect democracy and their goverments have treated the Kurds horribly at times. One instance where they did allow a lot of democracy was in holding a parliamentary vote on whether our troops could pass through their country. We didn't particularly like democracy in this case, it seems.

 

[ajwps]

Well, I'll tell you what, friend. You claim I said Delay is under indictment, why don't you find the evidence?

Dijetlo said:

We were talking about a criminal investigation of Tom Delay and the energy lobby, not Abraham Lincoln.

After extensive search of every news site on the web, no such claim concerning Congress Delay impending criminal investigation was found.

I think we should investigate everything about President George Bush and what he knew and when he knew it.

Democratic presidential wantabe Congressman Dick Gebhart said last week that he thought that the entire world should have a standardized minimum wage as overseen by the United (Muslim) Nations. The Nigerian desert wanderers would have a $14.00/hour minimum wage just like a US workman. How much would that make services and products cost in your town?

Mr. Gebhart's statement is truly a remarkable and enlightening insight into his intellect. He really should take George Bush's position as the next president of these United States.

 

[ajwps]

Nice work of plagiarism. Check out http://www.ncbuy.com/reference/coun...=backgovernment . Do you really think that anyone slightly familiar with English grammar and your previous posts is going to believe that the middle paragraphs above are your writing?

Do you know the actual meaning of the word pagiarism?

Taking words or paragraphs or sections of information out of articles posted on open and public Internet sites is not considered plagiarism.

The information posted was meant to be factual and to refute the allegation that Turkey's Islam and democracy are mutually exclusive in that Islamic Democracy.

Interesting the reaction I have elicited from you when you think you have made a point.

So sorry......

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by ajwps
Do you know the actual meaning of the word pagiarism?

Taking words or paragraphs or sections of information out of articles posted on open and public Internet sites is not considered plagiarism.

The information posted was meant to be factual and to refute the allegation that Turkey's Islam and democracy are mutually exclusive in that Islamic Democracy.

Interesting the reaction I have elicited from you when you think you have made a point.

So sorry......

Presenting someone else's writing without making it clear (by way of quotation marks and references) that this is the case but rather presenting it as your own work is plagiarism. Check out any American university's guidelines for academic integrety. The fact that this is the internet has nothing to do with the intent of the plagiary. The modern English language has conventions for quoting, most notably, quotation marks. It's possible, of course, that you merely forgot, but interestingly you don't attempt that as a first defense.

I can't be bothered, but it might be interesting for someone to go back over ajwps' / Mustaffah's previous posts entering phrases that seem especially grammatical and idiomatic in Internet search engines to see what they come up with. I shall definitely be reading your future posts with this in mind.

 

[ajwps]

Bye the bye. The Turkey information site used for previous post was not taken from your reference.

http://www.ncbuy.com/reference/country/intro_tu.html

In fact your grammatical usage is not that great.

Keep on truckin....

 

[SLClemens]

Originally posted by ajwps
Bye the bye. The Turkey information site used for previous post was not taken from your reference.

http://www.ncbuy.com/reference/country/intro_tu.html

In fact your grammatical usage is not that great.

Keep on truckin....

I have no idea whatsoever what your first paragraph is trying to say (placing an article or pronoun before "previous" might help). My grammatical usage, or as native-English speakers tend to say, my grammar, may not be that good, but my knowledge of grammar is certainly adequate enough for me to distinguish between your writing and an encyclopedia article.

Just how you expect any educated American to take you seriously after all this I'm not quite sure.

 

[ajwps]

Presenting someone else's writing without making it clear (by way of quotation marks and references) that this is the case but rather presenting it as your own work is plagiarism. Check out any American university's guidelines for academic integrety. The fact that this is the internet has nothing to do with the intent of the plagiary. The modern English language has conventions for quoting, most notably, quotation marks. It's possible, of course, that you merely forgot, but interestingly you don't attempt that as a first defense.

I'm sorry but I had no idea tht this public site had anything to do with American Universities, English language conventions or their academic integrity.

If you borrow the total from one author, it’s plagiarism; if you borrow from many, it’s research.

ATTRIBUTION: Wilson Mizner (1876–1933), U.S. dramatist

 

[SLClemens]

I'm not sure about conventions for playwrights stealing plots, but for writers, taking a single sentence from someone else without quoting it is plagiarism.

Why don't you try enrolling in an American school, writing a short paper, and including a few paragraphs of your own writing along with a few un-quoted paragraphs from an encylopedia? See what happens.