Special Master Not Working Out Well For Team Trumpy

[Marener]

It's an E.O., but yeah.

Section 3.6 here:

The President Executive Order 13526

Classified National Security Information December 29, 2009 Part 1 - Original Classification Part 2 - Derivative Classification Part 3 - Declassification and Downgrading Part 4 - Safeguarding Part 5 - Implementation and Review Part 6- General Provisions This order prescribes a uniform system for...

www.archives.gov

Do be sure and read section 4.4 too.

"
(2) previously have occupied senior policy-making positions to which they were appointed or designated by the President or the Vice President; or
(3) served as President or Vice President."

Numerous problems here.

For starters, 3.6 says that the government doesn't have to disclose the presence of records that are classified as part of a FOIA request. We aren't dealing with a FOIA request. Two, the special master asked for a list of documents Trump had declassified. So clearly this section no longer applies since it deals with things that are still classified. Next problem is that the special master is not requesting this list be made public. The special master is going to see every document anyway. Listing what is and isn't classified doesn't prevent disclosure since he's going to see everything anyway.

Lastly, 4.4 is important that it says that these people MAY get to see classified documents. It does not mean they get unfettered access. It just says that they MAY see them without having a need to know basis.

 

[Lesh]

I don't know how that's possible when it was a member of his staff that contacted Fox news and made that statement. I know, I was watching it live when it happened.

His office put out an anonymous statement at HIS direction. That was HIS claim

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's not my problem. That's not the government's problem.

And it's not Trump's problem either. A friend of yours asks to keep some diamond jewelry at your house for safe keeping. The police come and arrest you for possession of stolen property. How can they charge you with that when you had no idea the jewelry was stolen?

If that's their claim, Trump had no idea the document(s) were re-classified unless somebody told him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

His office put out an anonymous statement at HIS direction. That was HIS claim

Liar.

 

[Lesh]

And it's not Trump's problem either. A friend of yours asks to keep some diamond jewelry at your house for safe keeping. The police come and arrest you for possession of stolen property. How can they charge you with that when you had no idea the jewelry was stolen?

If that's their claim, Trump had no idea the document(s) were re-classified unless somebody told him.

For a year and a half the government was trying to recover what THEY called classified documents.

 

[pknopp]

So 18 members of his staff say there was no such order and none have said there was.

Where does that leave things?

It doesn't even matter if there was. Declassification can't happen that way. I'm sure Trump has been told this.

 

[The Duke]

Numerous problems here.

For starters, 3.6 says that the government doesn't have to disclose the presence of records that are classified as part of a FOIA request. We aren't dealing with a FOIA request. Two, the special master asked for a list of documents Trump had declassified. So clearly this section no longer applies since it deals with things that are still classified. Next problem is that the special master is not requesting this list be made public. The special master is going to see every document anyway. Listing what is and isn't classified doesn't prevent disclosure since he's going to see everything anyway.

Lastly, 4.4 is important that it says that these people MAY get to see classified documents. It does not mean they get unfettered access. It just says that they MAY see them without having a need to know basis.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Constitution has nothing to do with this. We have been over that

What do you mean nothing to do with it? It's the Constitution that gives him that authority.

 

[Marener]

And it's not Trump's problem either. A friend of yours asks to keep some diamond jewelry at your house for safe keeping. The police come and arrest you for possession of stolen property. How can they charge you with that when you had no idea the jewelry was stolen?

If that's their claim, Trump had no idea the document(s) were re-classified unless somebody told him.

It's definitely Trump's problem. The documents had classification markings all over them. It wasn't exactly subtle that they were highly classified.

It's not my fault Trump is playing games with national security.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

For a year and a half the government was trying to recover what THEY called classified documents.

No, it started less than six months before the raid. They couldn't have started it any earlier because it would have ruined the clown show they needed to put on before midterms.

 

[Lesh]

Liar.

YOU provided the link in post 320 stupid

 

[Marener]

I guess that's what I get for trying to treat you like an intelligent adult.

 

[The Duke]

So 18 members of his staff say there was no such order and none have said there was.

Where does that leave things?

It doesn't even matter if there was. Declassification can't happen that way. I'm sure Trump has been told this.

Actually it can by the president or vice president.

 

[The Duke]

I guess that's what I get for trying to treat you like an intelligent adult.

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem; It's yours.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's definitely Trump's problem. The documents had classification markings all over them. It wasn't exactly subtle that they were highly classified.

It's not my fault Trump is playing games with national security.

You don't know that. The only thing reported is that ENVELOPES were marked classified. It doesn't mean the contents were. He could have declassified them and not made out new envelopes yet.

 

[pknopp]

Actually it can by the president or vice president.

No one can declassify information by simply saying "declassified" or anything I take with me is "declassified".

 

[The Duke]

And it's not Trump's problem either. A friend of yours asks to keep some diamond jewelry at your house for safe keeping. The police come and arrest you for possession of stolen property. How can they charge you with that when you had no idea the jewelry was stolen?

If that's their claim, Trump had no idea the document(s) were re-classified unless somebody told him.

That's a bad analogy because whether he knew it or not he was in possession of stolen property.

The thing with Trump is entirely a different situation.

 

[Lesh]

What do you mean nothing to do with it? It's the Constitution that gives him that authority.

Where?

 

[The Duke]

No one can declassify information by simply saying "declassified" or anything I take with me is "declassified".

Also I've been reading the cases where presidents kept stuff or wiped computers and things like that. It looks to me like precedence says there is nothing out of order here. The only thing out of order is the DOJ and FBI being weaponized for partisan purposes.

Here ya go:

https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2010cv1834-13

The President Executive Order 13526

Classified National Security Information December 29, 2009 Part 1 - Original Classification Part 2 - Derivative Classification Part 3 - Declassification and Downgrading Part 4 - Safeguarding Part 5 - Implementation and Review Part 6- General Provisions This order prescribes a uniform system for...

www.archives.gov

Bush Executive Order 13292 on Classified National Security Information

to amend executive order 12958, signed March 25, 2003

sgp.fas.org

DEPARTMENT OF the NAVY, Petitioner, v. Thomas E. EGAN.

www.law.cornell.edu

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

 

[Delldude]

The Special Master asked the Trump team if they are claiming these all have been declassified. They refused to directly answer. The Special Master then stated, that was all he needed to know. He's going with the fact that they were still classified.

Trump painted himself in a corner here. Say they were declassified and his lawyers are going to have to prove that. (Trump waving his arm and saying "declassified" does not make them so).

They know they can not do that because they never were declassified. Can the president declassify information? He most certainly can, but it has to be done in a legal manner. I suppose Trump will argue he was ignorant of the law. LOL I imagine many will testify he was not.

This statement says it all:

“It’s not about gamesmanship. It’s about not having seen the documents. ... We are not in a position, nor should we be in a position at this juncture, to fully disclose a substantive defense,” Trusty said. “We shouldn’t have to be in a position to have to disclose declarations and witness statements.”