Source of ethics, and morality

[Czernobog]

You said it yourself - the theories of quantum mechanics can be expressed as mathematical equations. God cannot. You keep talking about quantum physics as if it is based solely on faith, with no evidence, but the evidence is in the math. Show me the math of divinity, and I will be the first to change my mind.

The evidence isn't in the math, the math predicts it. Just because something can be predicted doesn't mean evidence exists. If that is so, I predict God exists... see how that works?

Can you make that prediction with mathematical certainty?

Just because I can't show you a formula, doesn't mean anything... 150 years ago, no one could show you a quantum physics formula. Although, if the theories are correct, they were likely working regardless of the fact they hadn't yet been theorized and formulas discovered. This is why it's very problematic for me when people say: We know X, therefore, God is nil. X is an unresolved variable, we'll never absolutely have a value for X. Therefore, it can never prove God nil.

Well, I guess that answered that question. 150 years?!?! Really?!?! You guys have had some 2,000 years to come up with something better than, "Because we say so..." So, until there is some sort of objective evidence to the contrary, I will stay on the neutral null position of "There is no God".

Do you have proof that there is no God?

Coming late to the party. I don't need proof. The way hypothesis testing works is that when one proposes the hypnosis that "X exists", in order to avoid confirmation bias, one does not start with the affirmative position of "X exists"; rather one starts from the neutral null position of "X does NOT exist" and proceeds to look for evidence to prove the existence of "X".

In this case, the null position is God does not exist. It is up to the theists to provide the evidence to the contrary. One does not prove nonexistence. Nonexistence is presumed, unless proven otherwise.

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Of course you need proof. Otherwise you are taking it on faith.

Clearly you have no understanding of how scientific study works. When you go to the doctor, he runs tests to see if you have cancer, and the tests come back negative, are you "taking it on faith" that you do not have cancer, or do you know that you do not have cancer, because there was no evidence of the existence of cancer?

 

[ding]

The evidence isn't in the math, the math predicts it. Just because something can be predicted doesn't mean evidence exists. If that is so, I predict God exists... see how that works?

Can you make that prediction with mathematical certainty?

Just because I can't show you a formula, doesn't mean anything... 150 years ago, no one could show you a quantum physics formula. Although, if the theories are correct, they were likely working regardless of the fact they hadn't yet been theorized and formulas discovered. This is why it's very problematic for me when people say: We know X, therefore, God is nil. X is an unresolved variable, we'll never absolutely have a value for X. Therefore, it can never prove God nil.

Well, I guess that answered that question. 150 years?!?! Really?!?! You guys have had some 2,000 years to come up with something better than, "Because we say so..." So, until there is some sort of objective evidence to the contrary, I will stay on the neutral null position of "There is no God".

Do you have proof that there is no God?

Coming late to the party. I don't need proof. The way hypothesis testing works is that when one proposes the hypnosis that "X exists", in order to avoid confirmation bias, one does not start with the affirmative position of "X exists"; rather one starts from the neutral null position of "X does NOT exist" and proceeds to look for evidence to prove the existence of "X".

In this case, the null position is God does not exist. It is up to the theists to provide the evidence to the contrary. One does not prove nonexistence. Nonexistence is presumed, unless proven otherwise.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Of course you need proof. Otherwise you are taking it on faith.

Clearly you have no understanding of how scientific study works. When you go to the doctor, he runs tests to see if you have cancer, and the tests come back negative, are you "taking it on faith" that you do not have cancer, or do you know that you do not have cancer, because there was no evidence of the existence of cancer?

By definition God "exists" beyond the natural universe, beyond natural laws. We can only infer His existence through what He has created. You reject that. I don't. Therefore, you can't use the "I can't prove God exist, so He must not exist" argument because I have proven to myself that He exists. I have good reason to believe He exists. You do not have a good reason to believe He doesn't exist. So, where is your scientific proof that God does not exist?

 

[Boss]

You said it yourself - the theories of quantum mechanics can be expressed as mathematical equations. God cannot. You keep talking about quantum physics as if it is based solely on faith, with no evidence, but the evidence is in the math. Show me the math of divinity, and I will be the first to change my mind.

The evidence isn't in the math, the math predicts it. Just because something can be predicted doesn't mean evidence exists. If that is so, I predict God exists... see how that works?

Can you make that prediction with mathematical certainty?

Just because I can't show you a formula, doesn't mean anything... 150 years ago, no one could show you a quantum physics formula. Although, if the theories are correct, they were likely working regardless of the fact they hadn't yet been theorized and formulas discovered. This is why it's very problematic for me when people say: We know X, therefore, God is nil. X is an unresolved variable, we'll never absolutely have a value for X. Therefore, it can never prove God nil.

Well, I guess that answered that question. 150 years?!?! Really?!?! You guys have had some 2,000 years to come up with something better than, "Because we say so..." So, until there is some sort of objective evidence to the contrary, I will stay on the neutral null position of "There is no God".

Now you're starting to be silly. I said, 150 years ago, no one could've shown you a quantum formula. Obviously, 2,000 years ago, no one could've shown you a quantum formula. Your original argument was, I can't show you a formula for God. You're concluding that means, no God. So you think quantum physics was impossible until we discovered it? No quantum formulas, therefore, no quantum physics, right?

 

[Boss]

I will stay on the neutral null position of "There is no God".

That's not a neutral position at all. That is a conclusive position. A neutral position would be to say you don't know if God exists or not. The default of an unknown is unknown.

 

[ding]

I will stay on the neutral null position of "There is no God".

That's not a neutral position at all. That is a conclusive position. A neutral position would be to say you don't know if God exists or not. The default of an unknown is unknown.

 

[the_human_being]

Wow. I like this guy's church. "Atheists? Fuck them. We don't give even a single fuck about anyone not already converted, or at least not begging to be converted. We gotta work at it? Fuck that. Too much effort,"

I actually kinda wanna attend a service at this guy's church. Sounds like it would be fun.

Actually, you assign far too much importance to yourself and other atheists. In spite of what you appear to wish, you are not really the subject matter you would like to be.

Well, good. Feel free to take your imaginary magic skyman, and run along..

I agree. There is certainly nothing of interest nor importance being discussed here.

...and yet you keep responding. Seems we're, at least, important enough to you, and your fellow theists for you to take as much time as you need to convince us that we aren't important. Although I do agree. Since there is clearly no God, even discussing the idea of an imaginary God being the author of morality is neither interesting, nor important, as the conclusion is self-evident. No God, so morality comes from self, or, at best, from a cultural agreement.

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

 

[Czernobog]

Actually, you assign far too much importance to yourself and other atheists. In spite of what you appear to wish, you are not really the subject matter you would like to be.

Well, good. Feel free to take your imaginary magic skyman, and run along..

I agree. There is certainly nothing of interest nor importance being discussed here.

...and yet you keep responding. Seems we're, at least, important enough to you, and your fellow theists for you to take as much time as you need to convince us that we aren't important. Although I do agree. Since there is clearly no God, even discussing the idea of an imaginary God being the author of morality is neither interesting, nor important, as the conclusion is self-evident. No God, so morality comes from self, or, at best, from a cultural agreement.

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

 

[the_human_being]

Well, good. Feel free to take your imaginary magic skyman, and run along..

I agree. There is certainly nothing of interest nor importance being discussed here.

...and yet you keep responding. Seems we're, at least, important enough to you, and your fellow theists for you to take as much time as you need to convince us that we aren't important. Although I do agree. Since there is clearly no God, even discussing the idea of an imaginary God being the author of morality is neither interesting, nor important, as the conclusion is self-evident. No God, so morality comes from self, or, at best, from a cultural agreement.

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

 

[Czernobog]

I agree. There is certainly nothing of interest nor importance being discussed here.

...and yet you keep responding. Seems we're, at least, important enough to you, and your fellow theists for you to take as much time as you need to convince us that we aren't important. Although I do agree. Since there is clearly no God, even discussing the idea of an imaginary God being the author of morality is neither interesting, nor important, as the conclusion is self-evident. No God, so morality comes from self, or, at best, from a cultural agreement.

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

 

[the_human_being]

...and yet you keep responding. Seems we're, at least, important enough to you, and your fellow theists for you to take as much time as you need to convince us that we aren't important. Although I do agree. Since there is clearly no God, even discussing the idea of an imaginary God being the author of morality is neither interesting, nor important, as the conclusion is self-evident. No God, so morality comes from self, or, at best, from a cultural agreement.

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

 

[Czernobog]

No one said you are unimportant. We are saying we don't need to convince you of anything. Please believe whatever the hell you want to believe.

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

I never claimed any such thing. However, your response is interesting in what it reveals about you. You apparently feel that you have the ability to decide who is, and is not worthy of your time. I mean, that's fine. I just find it interesting, is all.

 

[the_human_being]

I find it absolutely amazing that these idiots never attend church yet know what is said there. I find it even more amazing that these idiots do not even know which church I attend yet know what we discuss there.

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

I never claimed any such thing. However, your response is interesting in what it reveals about you. You apparently feel that you have the ability to decide who is, and is not worthy of your time. I mean, that's fine. I just find it interesting, is all.

Of course it is my call. Does someone else make your choices for you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the most intelligent bigot in the world, why waste my time trying to save your miserable soul? You're above my pay grade. The Lord will handle you in due time.

 

[Czernobog]

I'm only basing my assumptions on your words. Perhaps you shouldn't so cavalierly present yourself, and your church as so uncaring of outsiders.

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

I never claimed any such thing. However, your response is interesting in what it reveals about you. You apparently feel that you have the ability to decide who is, and is not worthy of your time. I mean, that's fine. I just find it interesting, is all.

Of course it is my call. Does someone else make your choices for you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the most intelligent bigot in the world, why waste my time trying to save your miserable soul? You're above my pay grade. The Lord will handle you in due time.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[the_human_being]

In other words you really don't know anything at all. You only assume falsely. Why not attend a church and find out for yourself what they discuss? Isn't scientific research based upon observation? You're a rocket scientist, correct? You're one of the great untapped resources for intelligent thought, correct? Allow me to burst your bubble. You are nothing more than a common run-of-the-mill bigot.

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

I never claimed any such thing. However, your response is interesting in what it reveals about you. You apparently feel that you have the ability to decide who is, and is not worthy of your time. I mean, that's fine. I just find it interesting, is all.

Of course it is my call. Does someone else make your choices for you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the most intelligent bigot in the world, why waste my time trying to save your miserable soul? You're above my pay grade. The Lord will handle you in due time.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I'm pretty sure He already has you down on His calendar.

 

[Czernobog]

Oh, I have attended churches, and they talked about atheists, and pagans, all manner of unbelievers. That's why I found it so amazing that your church finds unbelievers to be so beneath you that they are not even worth your time.

You said nothing about unbelievers. You said "atheists". Churches work hard to offer the good news to sinners. You have ypourself proclaimed how you are just so very intelligent that you already know far more than other mortals. Our Bible has already condemned you. Why should we waste our time on the likes of you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the center of all knowledge, we will let the goof Lord handle you.

I never claimed any such thing. However, your response is interesting in what it reveals about you. You apparently feel that you have the ability to decide who is, and is not worthy of your time. I mean, that's fine. I just find it interesting, is all.

Of course it is my call. Does someone else make your choices for you? Since you have proclaimed yourself to be the most intelligent bigot in the world, why waste my time trying to save your miserable soul? You're above my pay grade. The Lord will handle you in due time.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I'm pretty sure He already has you down on His calendar.

Woohoo.