Something We Don't Need To Import From Europe

[Annie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050829...lZvzwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Swastikas Burned Into Jewish Family's Yard

Mon Aug 29,11:39 AM ET

Vandals burned swastikas and obscenities into the lawn of a Jewish family, splattering windows with eggs and fouling the front porch of their home.

Two swastikas were spray-painted in the road in front of Ginger Ragans' two-story home Sunday and a third was etched onto her lawn, along with the word "Fascist" and an obscenity scrawled in the grass. Her trees were draped with toilet paper and someone had urinated and defecated on the porch.

Gwinnett County police are investigating the vandalism in the town northeast of Atlanta and are uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime, spokesman Darren Moloney said.

Ragans, 36, who has lived in the neighborhood for 10 years, said the incident likely was the work of neighborhood teens retaliating against her for her work as a neighborhood liaison for a community watchdog program.

In a recent edition of the community's newsletter, she mentioned that cameras had caught groups of teens hanging around the tennis courts long after the county's midnight curfew.

Although this is not the first time neighborhood homes have been vandalized, she said she's concerned the culprits are becoming more aggressive.

"I could handle the toilet paper and the egging," she said. "But for them to put swastikas and write 'fascist,' that turned it personal."

 

[fuzzykitten99]

...are uncertain whether to classify it as a hate crime...

HELLO!! McFly!!! UNCERTAIN it is a hate crime???!!! When swastikas show up on a JEWISH person's lawn/property how can you NOT see it as a hate crime??!!

Oh...she's white. Of course, how stupid of me. Hate crimes are only committed by white people against minorities. :duh3:

 

[Avatar4321]

You know, this is another sign that our education system is failing. These kids thing that Jews were the Fascists while they are the ones burning swastika signs in other peoples yards.

 

[Annie]

You know, this is another sign that our education system is failing. These kids thing that Jews were the Fascists while they are the ones burning swastika signs in other peoples yards.

Nope, not on this one, this is taught at home.

 

[theim]

Nope, not on this one, this is taught at home.

Don't be too sure. My high school teachers would always rail against Isreal opressing those poor, poor, Palestinians. Also, whenever the lesson on Facism came up, it was in the context of how Isreal and the US both display tenants of Fasicm. This might just be Madison, WI, but still.

 

[Annie]

Don't be too sure. My high school teachers would always rail against Isreal opressing those poor, poor, Palestinians. Also, whenever the lesson on Facism came up, it was in the context of how Isreal and the US both display tenants of Fasicm. This might just be Madison, WI, but still.

I'll trust you on that. Geez. My kids' Soc. Studies teachers were to the left, but not anti-semetic. If anything I'd wonder how they thought the kids could grab that all countries but US were correct, without realizing many of them didn't get along? Never fear, they were dealing with mid-late teens.

After 2002 though, when I found there was really Bush bashing going on, I went to the department head and 'discussed' it. From that point on, there was at least a semblance of even-handedness in handouts, if not discussion.

You are right, could be the locale.

 

[nosarcasm]

the idea proposed by kathianne that racism or anti-semitism
is a European invention is erronious (hope this is a word).

Why do people distrust people of different culture or skin color
Imo its part of our evolutionary heritage to instincitivly trust
people that are more like us.

Myself as a German immigrant here in Idaho have met nearly
no discrimination.

People I know that are legally here of Latino heritage are discriminated
against in various ways.

For the US being a country of immigrants the tolerance is higher
then in Europe where different cultures and groups have
engaged in warfare for a long time.

The discrimination of catholics (at least to a much higher degree
then in Europe) shows how history still influences current culture.

The peace of Westphalia pretty much extincted Protestant/ Catholic
problems (except N. ireland which is more a cultural then a religious war imo)

Anti Semitism was found on the "The Jews killed Jesus" copout.

While it is less developed in the US anti Semitism is alive and well.

So is white/black racial discriminations.

My point, humans are humans, the Us citizen is by no means more or
less inclined to racism.

 

[Annie]

the idea proposed by kathianne that racism or anti-semitism
is a European invention is erronious (hope this is a word).

Why do people distrust people of different culture or skin color
Imo its part of our evolutionary heritage to instincitivly trust
people that are more like us.

Myself as a German immigrant here in Idaho have met nearly
no discrimination.

People I know that are legally here of Latino heritage are discriminated
against in various ways.

For the US being a country of immigrants the tolerance is higher
then in Europe where different cultures and groups have
engaged in warfare for a long time.

The discrimination of catholics (at least to a much higher degree
then in Europe) shows how history still influences current culture.

The peace of Westphalia pretty much extincted Protestant/ Catholic
problems (except N. ireland which is more a cultural then a religious war imo)

Anti Semitism was found on the "The Jews killed Jesus" copout.

While it is less developed in the US anti Semitism is alive and well.

So is white/black racial discriminations.

My point, humans are humans, the Us citizen is by no means more or
less inclined to racism.

Not quite clear on how you thought I was saying anything of the sort. Rather I was, on another thread, discussing how US shouldn't follow the lesson of anti-Semitism from the European continent. If you wish to argue that the reason it exist stems from the Roman Empire, be my guest. At least you are owning up to the heritage.

For you personally, I guess it would be by default of conquering.

 

[nosarcasm]

you started the thread with the assumption Anti-Semitism was
imported.

Either the US white citizens are Europeans on another continent
and so imported the anti semitism with their immigration
or they are Americans that are infected by European ideas.

What is it?

Either Europe and the US have the same heritage, and so
its hardly the fault of the Europeans or they are
different human beings that got influenced
by post WW2 European ideas ?

I am not sure why you dont talk about American racism and
instead blame it on the Europeans now.

 

[Annie]

you started the thread with the assumption Anti-Semitism was
imported.

Either the US white citizens are Europeans on another continent
and so imported the anti semitism with their immigration
or they are Americans that are infected by European ideas.

What is it?

Either Europe and the US have the same heritage, and so
its hardly the fault of the Europeans or they are
different human beings that got influenced
by post WW2 European ideas ?

I am not sure why you dont talk about American racism and
instead blame it on the Europeans now.

The only 'American anti-semitism' is from John Birch and KKK. Other than that, non. Racism on color, Europe cannot hold a candle to US in that regard. You read more into what I posted than I meant to be implied. I was only speaking to anti-semitism.

 

[nosarcasm]

well I have to admit I don have a good read on Anti-semitism in the Us yet

I have heard statements of coworkers that were clearly antisemitic.

For example. YOu cant trust Jews on money issues. They then
had some story about botched stock investment in 2000 during the
market crash. But they blamed it on Jews in general.

That seems like a classical blame the Jews argument.

The press even your hated MSM seems to be pro Israel by large
or in contrast the European press in Pro Palestinian at large.

Either way I have met more people that were trash talking
"*******" then Jews.

It seems in America skin color is more a factor then in Europe
cultural factors.

Germany in comparison to the US is more a peacnick society.
but anti immigrant sentiment is definitly higher.

Unlike here, Italians for example are as much hated as Turks or
Africans.

Well racism is always ugly. Now that I have lived in 4 countries
I had some change in my nationalism. I prefer to judge people
on what they do and how they behave and not on race.

Truly most immigrants in all those countries I lived in were
the epidome of hard working "conquer the west type" people.

Too bad the Islamo fascist messes it up for all of them.

 

[Annie]

well I have to admit I don have a good read on Anti-semitism in the Us yet

I have heard statements of coworkers that were clearly antisemitic.

For example. YOu cant trust Jews on money issues. They then
had some story about botched stock investment in 2000 during the
market crash. But they blamed it on Jews in general.

That seems like a classical blame the Jews argument.

The press even your hated MSM seems to be pro Israel by large
or in contrast the European press in Pro Palestinian at large.

Either way I have met more people that were trash talking
"*******" then Jews.

It seems in America skin color is more a factor then in Europe
cultural factors.

Germany in comparison to the US is more a peacnick society.
but anti immigrant sentiment is definitly higher.

Unlike here, Italians for example are as much hated as Turks or
Africans.

Well racism is always ugly. Now that I have lived in 4 countries
I had some change in my nationalism. I prefer to judge people
on what they do and how they behave and not on race.

Truly most immigrants in all those countries I lived in were
the epidome of hard working "conquer the west type" people.

Too bad the Islamo fascist messes it up for all of them.

That is why I wanted to take a break between the two threads. Americans and 'color' is a problem. I will more than grant that issue. I may be wrong, but I think Europe can thank the 'British Empire' gambit for their tolerance on that issue.

As for anti-semitism, I guess you'll have to trust me on this, but with limited experiences during the colonial era, Pennsylvania and to a lesser degree Maryland exempt, Jews haven't had widespread problems in the US, with the two exemptions I noted earlier. I think we can agree, that isn't the case in Europe?

 

[nosarcasm]

I wonder if color is the same scapegoat that anti- semitism is in Europe.

Germany for historical reasons might be an acception now.

The problem with the term Europe is that we talk about so
many different countries.

Scandinavia is rather low on racism per se (and I would include antii-semitism
in racism)

Germany has a high level of racism against foreigners per se but
pretty much got rid of widespread antisemitism.

This is my observation from growing up there, but in the press
or private conversations only a few neo nazis would bring
up Jews as a problem for Germany. Its ridicilous because
in most areas you ll never meet a jew and we know why.

France has lots of islamist immigrants. While its not a skin color
thing they discriminate based on culture and religion.

Italy has lots of African immigrants and the north even dislikes
the South of Italy. Color is more an issue there.

Northern Ireland, another cultural problem.

I think the problem with the news these days
is that The EU is presented as one block which they
culurally are not.

Then as the closest competitor to world power the Eurotrash talk
starts. This is infortunate. In a cultural war against Islam
we are allies in the long run, whatever the local elections dictates.
Clash of civilizations by Huntington is a great outline for that.

Living in the Us I think i "feel" a pro Israel bias.
Jews in general are anti German and so not my friends.

I tried to befriend em, but the Zionist I met have quite some
hostile attitude towards me.

Looking back at our history I can relate still its unfortunate.
That does not make them enemies but we cant be friends either.

Are you Jewish btw? Since you follow Davids Germany blog?

Hah I hope I dont sound like a Nazi cause I am not.

 

[Annie]

How to answer this? Hmm, I don't want to make US look better or worse, or Europe.

I wonder if color is the same scapegoat that anti- semitism is in Europe.

Germany for historical reasons might be an acception now.

The problem with the term Europe is that we talk about so
many different countries.

The EU makes that not only likely, but moreso demands it.

Scandinavia is rather low on racism per se (and I would include antii-semitism
in racism)

Germany has a high level of racism against foreigners per se but
pretty much got rid of widespread antisemitism.

What do you mean by 'widespread'? Seems there are too many instances to link to, though you know me, I can find some...I do not think for a second that most Germans are anti-semetic, yet most Germans speaking through 'polls' don't have a problem with the idea that most Americans wish to colonize the Middle East...

This is my observation from growing up there, but in the press
or private conversations only a few neo nazis would bring
up Jews as a problem for Germany. Its ridicilous because
in most areas you ll never meet a jew and we know why.

France has lots of islamist immigrants. While its not a skin color
thing they discriminate based on culture and religion.

It's not just France, but most Western European states too, including Germany and UK. They have similar problems, though UK is now willing to admit it. Germany is not off the hook, since it seems there are connections with Muslims/9-11/Germany, no matter how we look at it.

Italy has lots of African immigrants and the north even dislikes
the South of Italy. Color is more an issue there.

Italy seems to have immigrants from all over, why more a problem than in other Euro countries?

Northern Ireland, another cultural problem.

I think the problem with the news these days
is that The EU is presented as one block which they
culurally are not.

See above.

Then as the closest competitor to world power the Eurotrash talk
starts. This is infortunate. In a cultural war against Islam
we are allies in the long run, whatever the local elections dictates.
Clash of civilizations by Huntington is a great outline for that.

There is nothing to suggest that any party in Germany or France recognizes that. There is nothing to suggest that the citizens of those countries believe that.

Living in the Us I think i "feel" a pro Israel bias.
Jews in general are anti German and so not my friends.

I tried to befriend em, but the Zionist I met have quite some
hostile attitude towards me.

Looking back at our history I can relate still its unfortunate.
That does not make them enemies but we cant be friends either.

Are you Jewish btw? Since you follow Davids Germany blog?

Hah I hope I dont sound like a Nazi cause I am not.

No, I am not Jewish. I doubt most Jews in US would harbor ill feelings towards German-Americans, though can't say they wouldn't against 'German's with an accent.' Can't say I blame them, though don't think it's 'logical' under the circumstances. I think they have way more to fear from the French, some in Germany, some in Poland, Italy, US, UK, etc. Truth to tell, the Jews are right to feel paranoid.

 

[nosarcasm]

The EU makes that not only likely, but moreso demands it.

No the Us media likes to simplify things and pretend the EU is one
voice, it is not so, there are local political parties that insist
on their cultural and political independence. Think of it like a states
right issue but fueled by nationalism. The EU administration is
not entirly democratic and does not speak for them.

What do you mean by 'widespread'? Seems there are too many instances to link to, though you know me, I can find some...I do not think for a second that most Germans are anti-semetic, yet most Germans speaking through 'polls' don't have a problem with the idea that most Americans wish to colonize the Middle East...
Quote:

Sure there are those youthfull rebels that like to be totally unpc by
endorsing anti-semitism and there are some that believe in it
Same for the Us. But when I talked to people in Germany and lived
there anti-semitism was not high on their agenda. Most feel guilty
for the holocaust and that explains the extreme pacifist agenda
that got Schroeder reelected, not pure anti americanism.
Frankly with MTV and Hollywood the American empire did its thing
on the German culture.

'

s not just France, but most Western European states too, including Germany and UK. They have similar problems, though UK is now willing to admit it. Germany is not off the hook, since it seems there are connections with Muslims/9-11/Germany, no matter how we look at i

The Muslim immigration issue why the US should not burn its bridges with
the EU states. Its not a clean political move to take advantage of it
but hey we are talking politics after all.

Italy seems to have immigrants from all over, why more a problem than in other Euro countries?

Italy has lots of immigrants from Africa so has Spain because they can
reach them with small ships.

With the long coastline they cant keep em out. Thats why color
of skin is more an issue there. Also the rich north of Italy always
hated the more dark skinned south, the North was more pro nazi
and the South pro Ally in WW2. After the war the Southern
guys had politics in rome under their control and under socialist
redistribution took advantage of it. Thats why there is a lega nord.
This color issue is no emphazied by the African regugees/immigrants.

There is nothing to suggest that any party in Germany or France recognizes that. There is nothing to suggest that the citizens of those countries believe that.

I am a citizen , and I am aware of it. Next

No, I am not Jewish. I doubt most Jews in US would harbor ill feelings towards German-Americans, though can't say they wouldn't against 'German's with an accent.' Can't say I blame them, though don't think it's 'logical' under the circumstances. I think they have way more to fear from the French, some in Germany, some in Poland, Italy, US, UK, etc. Truth to tell, the Jews are right to feel paranoid.

I understand their sentiment, I d prefer they could forgive and forget
since I didnt kill any Jews nor do I intend to. Its one of the problems
of history. But their negative attitude to Germany makes
it hard for me to support their cause.