Some of the reasons why Americans of all political backgrounds oppose funding and supporting Ukraine.

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There’s no evidence that Russia intends on re-creating the Soviet union any more than America wants to set up an empire in the Middle East which is what we’ve heard many times.

There’s only ever been one Adolf Hitler throughout history. Well that’s what George W. Bush has been called Hitler …Donald Trump has been called Hitler so many times if you can see that this is called politics then you can see it right. That’s why people are using that comparison.

If you remember during the Cold War there was all sorts of saber rattling.

I don’t understand why people keep on bringing up World War II. You omitted that the main country were supporting was the Soviet union. And the Soviet government trusted the Americans to send them weapons that were not faulty. They trusted us to work on their air fields.


Thankfully Roosevelt was friendly and was a supporter toward the Soviet union. He wanted to work with the Soviet union as far back as 1933. That only makes sense to have major powers of the world work together.

Here is the major flaw in this idea that Putin is a monster which is not. Vladimir Putin is light authoritarians same thing with Zelensky . there’s countries of the 21st-century that are actually horrendous to live in and that are brutal like the now gone Islamic state of Iraq and the Levant, we could even talk about Afghanistan under the Taliban and possibly even the Islamic Republic of Iran. None of them compare to Russia. Russia is comparable to Ukraine.


Right now according to the Russians I’ve spoken with the Russian economy is doing incredible and that’s actually what Colonel Douglas McGregor says. Douglas McGregor was one of the greatest take Aces in American history. He is deeply respected by the way in Israel. McGregor says Ukraine has already lost the war. He says that Russia has a right to Ukraine.

By the way Israel is allied with Russia. Back when Naftali Bennett was the Prime Minister of Israel he flew to Russia to shake hands with Vladimir Putin while the Russians were invading Ukraine. That’s for all of the pro Israeli Americans I only wonder what they think about Russia now?

Sixties Fan

Douglas McGregor was not an ace. Where did you get that silly idea?

He was a cavalry officer during Desert Storm.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Show me where I have ever said the people of Ukraine don't have a right to fight the russian military invasion of their country, except Donbas where the russian army is seen as liberators and freedom fighters (Roosevelt is 100% correct: the war in Ukraine definitely resembles a civil war).

The greatest tragedies don't happen when one side is right and the other is wrong.

The greatest tragedies happen when both sides are right.

The war in Ukraine is one of these tragedies:

Ukrainians have a right to fight the russian invasion of their homeland and Russia has a right to liberate Donbas and fight the western military encirclement of her borders.

Georgia is to the southwest. NATO? No.
Azerbaijan. NATO? No.
Kazakhstan? NATO? No.

You lie as well as Putin does.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I didn't belittle you until you acted like a smartass for being ignorant. Have a nice fucking life in your ignorance!

This was my original post to you. "Russia and Sweden do not share a common border."

Then you got snotty!

And you lie too?
My response to that was - "Yes.. as already stated I messed that up with Finland"
There is not one ounce in sarcasm in that.

 

[rightwinger]

If Trump was President and doing what Biden is doing you'd say we were at war.

If there were no US Boots on the Ground….

No, I wouldnt.

 

[rightwinger]

Ukraine don't have a right to fight the russian military invasion of their country, except Donbas where the russian army is seen as liberators and freedom fighters

Given the savage treatment of Russia against civilians in the Donbas region, I doubt they look at Russia as liberators

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

And you lie too?
My response to that was - "Yes.. as already stated I messed that up with Finland"
There is not one ounce in sarcasm in that.

Snotty response. You could have let it go and said nothing.

 

[schmidlap]

You too buddy why are you responding like a robot And just repeating what CNN and Fox says. Thanks though for at least being kind about it.

Why is this happening in the United States of America remember being in Vegas what are the casinos had a drink in favor of Ukrainians. Like a drink you could order called a Ukrainian something. I told everyone at the table hey guys order a white Russian.


I already saw that you and the other poster have no interest in responding to the plethora of points I have made showing there to be Nazism in Ukraine, showing for example that upwards of 15,000 Ukrainians have been bombed and killed in eastern Ukraine since 2014 by the Ukrainian government according to numerous reports.

Like you got to ask yourself do you know that this war goes back to 2014?

Some Americans still believe that Russia invaded Ukraine for the hell of it like they just did it out of nowhere. Sorry sir but if Russia or let’s say China allied with Mexico and set up their military and their military officers in Mexico that would be an issue.

I’m sorry I respect you you’re talking about Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, George W. Bush all shook hands with Vladimir Putin and we’re probably much closer to him than Mr. Trump. So this is just all nonsense Whether it be this idea that Putin is a monster or that Trump is a so-called Putin sympathizer it literally makes no sense at all.

Putin suck-ups can lash out at the United States, NATO, and every democracy on earth, but their championing the degeneracy of a KGB thug is doomed to fail. American patriots across the political spectrum will not kowtow to Vlady.

“When you see this kind of war of aggression waged by a brutal dictator, ​

in which women and children are being slaughtered, the American people, ​

and especially conservatives, feel very strongly. That’s borne out, ​

not just in anecdotal public-opinion baths across the state of Arkansas, ​

[but] in my colleagues’ states as well, or in public-opinion polling as well: ​

that Vladimir Putin and Russia are as popular as syphilis these days.”​

[Tom Cotton’s Case for Backing Ukraine’s Military ‘to the Hilt’ | National Review]​

 

[José]

Originally posted by rightwinger
Given the savage treatment of Russia against civilians in the Donbas region, I doubt they look at Russia as liberators

I don't think you should worry.

Even if Russia defeated the ukrainian army completely and occupied the whole country it would mean nothing in the long run.

Judging by the ferocity they are defending their homeland we can safely predict that after the "victory parade", guerrilla war would immediately follow. In a few months or years the russian army would withdraw from the parts of the country I call ukrainian Ukraine (where the majority of the population shares a sense of belonging to Ukraine) and would remain in those areas that chose closer economic, cultural and political ties with Russia.

Like most foreign military occupations, it would be a problem that solves itself.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't think you should worry.

Even if Russia defeated the ukrainian army completely and occupied the whole country it would mean nothing in the long run.

Judging by the ferocity they are defending their homeland we can safely predict that after the "victory parade", guerrilla war would immediately follow. In a few months or years the russian army would withdraw from the parts of the country I call ukrainian Ukraine (where the majority of the population shares a sense of belonging to Ukraine) and would remain in those areas that chose closer economic, cultural and political ties with Russia.

Like most foreign military occupations, it would be a problem that solves itself.

The US learned that lesson in Vietnam and Afghanistan

Ukrainian civilians will never accept Russian occupiers
Russia can’t afford a lengthy occupation

 

[AntonToo]

Show me where I have ever said the people of Ukraine don't have a right to fight the russian military invasion of their country, except Donbas where the russian army is seen as liberators and freedom fighters (Roosevelt is 100% correct: the war in Ukraine definitely resembles a civil war).

Bullshit, separatism in eastern Ukraine is no less Russia's doing than annexation of crimea.

It was Russian led, managed and armed with Russian millitary heavy weapons. Luhansk/Donbas on it's own had no weapons and no will to challenge Ukranian government.

 

[busybee01]

Lol, Biden wants war. He is providing it, sending fighter jets without congresses approval, is unconstitutional.

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. Putin is the one who started it not Biden. We should send fighter jets although that would take time as the configuration would have to be changed.

 

[busybee01]

Ukraine is Not a democracy. They outlaw opposition parties and a ban entire churches… a church that has a huge percentage of the population. They arrest priests….among other things they have wacko politicians… more wacko then any of ours.

Why buy what someone is telling you in the media? I look past there moral pull strings

Common sense says we should be neutral. But it’s about money and power that’s all this is about.

Ok most Americans say no more for Ukraine or we are giving to much , ask the people of Ohio

Ohio is a fascist Republican state. They can go fuck themselves for all I care.

 

[busybee01]

The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back.

Putin is trying to return to the 80s.

 

[busybee01]

Ukraine is a light authoritarian country same with Russia. I would be willing to bet that if Ukraine sticks around in some capacity Zelenskyy will be president for at least 30 more years or for life.

Let’s keep something in mind here. There are many other countries of the world who are way worse than Ukraine or Russia. That is something very serious to keep in mind. There’s actually Third World countries in the world ravaged by brutality‘s that are unherd of in America. Let’s keep that in mind.

Russia is trying to take over Ukraine. We are giving Ukrainians the means to defend themselves.

 

[busybee01]

OUR TROOPS WILL HAVE TO USE THEM AGAINST RUSSIA. THAT IS OUR COUNTRY GETTING IN A WAR, WE HAVE NO BUSINESS IN. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

THE UKRANIANS ARE NOT ASKING FOR THE 82ND AIRBORNE. THEY ARE ASKING FOR THE MEANS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST AGGRESSION. WE MADE A COMMITYTMENT TO UKRAINE THAT WE WOULD HAVE THEIR BACK IF THEY GOT RID OF THEIR NUCLEAR WEAPONS. IT IS OUR BUSINESS. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SHGITHEAD PUTIN PUPPET.

 

[jknowgood]

The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back.

R

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. Putin is the one who started it not Biden. We should send fighter jets although that would take time as the configuration would have to be changed.

So our pilots would have to fly them. So we would be a part of that war.

 

[BS Filter]

If there were no US Boots on the Ground….

No, I wouldnt.

Only a fool would believe there are no US military in Ukraine.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Putin is trying to return to the 80s.

Whatever crazy. That was a direct quote from Obama making fun of Romney because he called Russia a threat.

 

[José]

Originally posted by AntonToo
Bullshit, separatism in eastern Ukraine is no less Russia's doing than annexation of crimea.

It was Russian led, managed and armed with Russian millitary heavy weapons. Luhansk/Donbas on it's own had no weapons and no will to challenge Ukranian government.

This is Anton's post but it could be a message by toomuchtime, stann, JimH52, etc, etc... They all say Russia created a puppet state and installed a puppet government in Donbas.

Compare his post with what Esay, the only ukrainian member who actively debates this topic, has to say about Donbas (it's not a verbatim transcription because I didn't save his message, but it's what he said in other words):

I think the best thing that could happen to Ukraine would
be a national divorce between the country and the eastern oblasts.

Donetsk and Luhansk will be an eternal source of headache for
Ukraine with their constant, incessant demands for greater autonomy
and closer economic, cultural and political ties with Russia.

Ukraine will be a much more stable nation without these
troublemakers without the political polarization caused by
millions of citizens looking East while the rest of the country looks West.

It's almost unbelievable, folks... An ukrainian citizen, a strong supporter of his nation in the war against Russia, a poster who would love to see Ukraine as a member of the EU and NATO (in an ideal world), who pulls no punches when he criticizes Russia, openly admiting the legitimacy of the pro-russian sentiment of the russian speaking provinces of Ukraine!!

For all I know he could be a russian citizen posting from Krasnoyarsk (whoa!! that's one hell of a tongue twister if there ever was one!!) but I believe he's telling the truth.

You have nearly all pro-Ukraine posters from all over the world calling the eastern oblasts puppet states set up by Russia and the only ukrainian poster conceding the fact that the people on the streets, the common man overwhelmingly leans towards Russia.

They must hate the poor ukrainian guy because his words demolish their entire narrative of a united Ukraine facing the russian invasion.

And not only that... If Esay is correct the entire narrative is turned upside down... the roles of Ukraine and Russia are completely reserved in Donbas.

They cannot agree with him because if he's right, when the fight occurs in Donbas, Ukraine is the real invader, the real aggressor trying to put down a genuine liberation movement and the native and russian soldiers become the freedom fighters.

Quite a character this ukrainian dude...

 

[AntonToo]

This is Anton's post but it could be a message by toomuchtime, stann, JimH52, etc, etc... They all say Russia created a puppet state and installed a puppet government in Donbas.

Compare his post with what Esay, the only ukrainian member who actively debates this topic, has to say about Donbas (it's not a verbatim transcription because I didn't save his message, but it's what he said in other words):

I think the best thing that could happen to Ukraine would
be a national divorce between the country and the eastern oblasts.

Donetsk and Luhansk will be an eternal source of headache for
Ukraine with their constant, incessant demands for greater autonomy
and closer economic, cultural and political ties with Russia.

Ukraine will be a much more stable nation without these
troublemakers without the political polarization caused by
millions of citizens looking East while the rest of the country looks West.

It's almost unbelievable, folks... An ukrainian citizen, a strong supporter of his nation in the war against Russia, a poster who would love to see Ukraine as a member of the EU and NATO (in an ideal world), who pulls no punches when he criticizes Russia, openly admiting the legitimacy of the pro-russian sentiment of the russian speaking provinces of Ukraine!!

For all I know he could be a russian citizen posting from Krasnoyarsk (whoa!! that's one hell of a tongue twister if there ever was one!!) but I believe he's telling the truth.

You have nearly all pro-Ukraine posters from all over the world calling the eastern oblasts puppet states set up by Russia and the only ukrainian poster conceding the fact that the people on the streets, the common man overwhelmingly leans towards Russia.

They must hate the poor ukrainian guy because his words demolish their entire narrative of a united Ukraine facing the russian invasion.

And not only that... If Esay is correct the entire narrative is turned upside down... the roles of Ukraine and Russia are completely reserved in Donbas.

They cannot agree with him because if he's right, when the fight occurs in Donbas, Ukraine is the real invader, the real aggressor trying to put down a genuine liberation movement and the native and russian soldiers become the freedom fighters.

Quite a character this ukrainian dude...

How does that refute even a word of what I've said?

We have some separatists in Texas, and yes some even think we'd better off without them, but it doesn't come to that.

Similarly, it wouldn't come to that in Eastern Ukraine without Russian campaign to millitarily interfere, spread Russian propaganda and annex Ukranian territories.