Socialized medicine does not work...

[there4eyeM]

When health care is not being provided otherwise, a system that does deliver it is necessary. If that system is called 'socialized' by some people, so be it. Again, if all the Americans who claimed to be Christian were Christian, such a thing as government administered health care would be uncalled for. Health care is not being taken care of otherwise, so collective effort is necessitated.

 

[Andylusion]

When health care is not being provided otherwise, a system that does deliver it is necessary. If that system is called 'socialized' by some people, so be it. Again, if all the Americans who claimed to be Christian were Christian, such a thing as government administered health care would be uncalled for. Health care is not being taken care of otherwise, so collective effort is necessitated.

The more collective it gets the worse off everyone ends up. Now if your ok with that, fine, lets socialize, and be ready for higher death rates, like we see in Europe and around the world.

You can come up with all your excuses as to why we need government run health care, but none of those reasons change the fact that your system doesn't work.

The only system that simply has not provided health are, would be the VA system. Let's have people on a 3 year waiting list, until they die off. That's exactly what happened, just like in Canada, and the UK, and elsewhere.

 

[JQPublic1]

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/2016/709letter_DI_Senate_2016.pdf

So after responding to the mindless crap here, I happen to notice this letter to the Senate. The trustees are required by law, to inform congress, when reserves are going to fall below 20% of expenses. That is happening right now for Disability Insurance, and the rest later.

View attachment 113340
Only a mindless left winger can see a graph showing 0% as a future outcome, and conclude.... "it's not going broke!".

Stop with the unending ignorance. The facts win, over your opinion.

Are you sincerely ignorant or conscientiously stupid? That is the question. Your graph validates everything I quoted the SSA positing on their website. Do you think hey would post a graph that contradicts their own report???? DUHHH! The zero represents the year the "reserves are depleted" but the system won't be "broke" because millions of workers will still be paying into it. And when all the baby boomers die out in the next 20 years or so, the reserves will start to rise again.
IN the interim, though, Congress will have to act by either raising the FICA taxes or reducing individual benefits in conjunction with raising the minimum retirement age.
Theer is another more diabolical option. The government might find some way to liquidate everyone over 60...

Only in mindless leftard world does "Trust fund with ZERO reserves" mean it's not broke.

You are too stupid to continue debating with.

If you are too stupid to understand that I am simply agreeing with the SSA's website, indeed you are too dense to continue debating. Stop taking things personally. If the SSA says it is not going broke and explained clearly why not, that ought to be enough for anyone to understand. that "going broke" phrase has led younger Americans to believe there won't be anything left when they reach retirement age. That is false.

As an aside, the process is far more complex than you might realize. As Baby boomers reach retirement age many are staying on the job and getting social security at the same time. But as long as they work they still have to pay income taxes ...HOWever, the LFPR reflects, among other things, that millions of BBs are retiring. And withTrump placing a freeze on Federal jobs, he is contributing to the projected shortfall of the Trust Funds by reducing the federal workforce where higher pay translates into more taxable income and more FICA tax volume. But it doesn't stop there. The private sector workforce growth is going to be curtailed too if Trump's immigration plan works-out. I don't know if anyone has stopped to think about how much income tax ad FICA revenue will be lost when the undocumented workers go.

No, your explanation is dumb. By your logic nearly no one in the entire country which has filed bankruptcy is broke.

In fact, I have co-worker right now, that filed bankruptcy. But he still has a job. So he still has income. So by your idiotic, and brainlessly stupid perspective..... he's not broke! He's never gone broke! Yes he has zero money in the bank, and all his assets are sold off now.... but no no, because he's got an income still... he's not broke!

No... he's broke. Having money coming in still, doesn't mean he's not broke. He's got no money in the bank or anywhere. Yes he still has just enough to keep fuel in the car so he can get to work, but he's lost everything. He's broke.

You.... are an idiot. You have proven to everyone here, you are disqualified to talk about this subject.

Thanks for playing. Have nice day.

How many times do I have to tell your dumbass that it is not MY LOGIC that you are wrestling with. BTW, you should know that bankruptcy is not the proper term for government shortfalls. You analogy is stupid

For other interested parties with common sense, not YOU Andylusion, be aware that when the reserves of the OAIS is depleted by 2034( I don't think Congress will allow that to happen) the income for those Trust Funds will be enough for 3/4 of obligations through year 2090. That is 56 years. Since inception the Trust Funds have collected bout 19 Trillion dollars and have paid out about 16 Trillion. That three trillion balance will sustain full benefit payouts until around 2034-37.

Since the inception of the Social Security program in 1935, scheduled benefits have always been paid on a timely basis through a series of modifications in the law that will continue. Social Security provides a basic level of monthly income to workers and their families after the workers have reached old age, become disabled, or died. The program now provides benefits to over 50 million people and is financed with the payroll taxes from over 150 million workers and their employers. Further modifications of the program are a certainty as the Congress continues to evolve and shape this program, reflecting the desires of each new generation.

This article describes the financial status of the Social Security program, including an analysis of the concepts of solvency and sustainability and the relationship of Social Security to the overall federal unified budget. The future is uncertain in many respects, and based on new information, projections of the financial status of the Social Security program vary somewhat over time. What is virtually certain is that the benefits that almost all Americans become entitled to and most depend on will be continued into the future with modifications deemed appropriate by their elected representatives in the Congress.

Here is the ink that some, like Andy, will read into and pick out portions alluding to insolvency. But the article gives an in depth look at how approaching insolvency issues were handled in the past and how they will likely be handled now and in the future to keep those checks coming. The Funds are not going to go broke, although to some, it appears that way right now, But that is nothing new, we have been there before and I am confident that Congress will rise to the occasion once again to keep the Funds solvent enough to keep paying full benefits well int the future. Again, a the risk of it being misread, and turned against me I submit the link with no hesitation or mental evasion.
Glean the knowledge herein and petition your congressperson to act to take measures to bolster the Trust RESERVES with all due haste as congress has done twice before.

The Future Financial Status of the Social Security Program

 

[JQPublic1]

And just who are YOU to judge the worthiness of any human?

If Im paying for them, Im buying the right to judge.
just like any employer has the right to judge the people he pays, just like any one has the right to judge anyone that they pay.
Dont want me to judge? dont force me to pay them.

An employer doesn't get to judge and determine if an employee is worthy of life. To suggest they can is as egregious as anything I have heard, especially when that judgement is biased and based on assumptions. And your tax dollars aren't yours once you send that check in. It belongs to all of us, and is at the disposal of those officials charged with distributing it as they see fit. That being said, we al judge people in one way or another; but, when your judgement turns potentially pathological to the point that you see other human beings as being unworthy of life, especially those you judge by appearance alone, you may need to see a psychiatrist.

But an employer does get to judge if he's worthy of pay.

I don't care what you think is pathological or not. If 51% say that you don't get our money, then you don't. Welcome to democracy idiot. That's it works.

And by the way... if you try and push this too far.... You end up with people keeping their money, no matter what you say. Again, look at Greece. As taxes went up and up, people paid less and less. Same is true here in America. It's called the shadow economy, where people simply refuse to pay tax, and there is nothing you can do about it. The shadow economy is worth an estimated $2 Trillion dollars. That's mechanics that do cash only backyard business. That's pipe fitters, and HVAC, that do work off the books.

The more you demand that our tax money is yours to have, the more of us simply refuse to pay it.

Yeah, we'll see how much you demand we pay for your programs in the years to come.

The discussion was about one of you RW homicidal maniacs entertaining the thought of liquidating people you deem unworthy of life for economic reasons.

You want to pay for me, so I can quit my job, and live off your income? By all means, send me your checks, and practice what you preach.

It's pretty easy for you to demand others pay for the lives of everyone else. Funny how when it's your money, you don't do so well.

We have problem being FORCED to fund others. I have no problem with charity, and conservatives routinely give more to charity than you left-wingers ever do.

But forcing me to keep you alive, simply because you refuse to work? Yes, I agree with him on that. I'm a firm believer that if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

By the way, all those Nordic countries you left-wingers all praise constantly, they don't do it your way either. They do it our way. I was looking up I think Denmark, and they don't have welfare at all... none. They have limited unemployment compensation. First you can't even collect until you work a full year. Then you only can collect if you are laid off, not if you quit, or are even relocated, and refuse to move. Then you can only collect for exactly one year, and if you don't work by then, you starve.

That's the kind of system I support. Not you. Not your welfare, leech of society living off the hard work of others for life, system that you propose and constantly push.

Go on, refuse to pay your tax obligation, I dare you! Besides going to prison, where you will be taken care of onMY DIME, how ironic. there are other ramifications.
If all Rw nuts stop paying their taxes, the left won't pay any either. Then guess what? Infrastructure starts to deteriorate; soldiers, teachers cops and firemen stop getting paid and walk off the job and we become sitting ducks for enemies who would pour through the unmanned ports of entry inTRUMP's wall!

 

[JQPublic1]

You want to pay for me, so I can quit my job, and live off your income? By all means, send me your checks, and practice what you preach.

You have me confused with someone else. I have always worked for a living. And I don't condone any able bodied person that abuses the system by free-loading. And while I realize that some people do game the system, even some middle classed people get section 8 housing and use food stamps sometimes, tjhe vast majority of those o with few options take welfare assistance fully cognizant of the stigma that hangs over their heads when it is revealed to more fortunate people. Perhaps my Christian upbringing is what makes my worldview different from yours. SO when you encounter a poor person that might be on welfare, don't think of your dollars being used for his/her well being, think of mine. Your dollars are being spent on drones and Trump's Towers where his family is ensconced . It is MY tax dollars and people like me that sustain the welfare of the poor and downtrodden.

It's pretty easy for you to demand others pay for the lives of everyone else. Funny how when it's your money, you don't do so well.

IIT IS MY MONEY, Do you thinkI don't pay taxes? Read the above suggestion and act accordingly when your emotions get out of control over welfare recipients.

We have problem being FORCED to fund others. I have no problem with charity, and conservatives routinely give more to charity than you left-wingers ever do.

Again, millions of your tax dollars are being spent on the security of Trump's family in his own hotels. He is making a killing, yet, you begrudge a welfare mom her paltry pittance, shame on you!

But forcing me to keep you alive, simply because you refuse to work? Yes, I agree with him on that. I'm a firm believer that if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

Me???? Hardly. I'm a t ax payer. Your tax dollars are going into Trump's pockets, mine are going to feed the poor and hungry!

By the way, all those Nordic countries you left-wingers all praise constantly, they don't do it your way either. They do it our way. I was looking up I think Denmark, and they don't have welfare at all... none. They have limited unemployment compensation. First you can't even collect until you work a full year. Then you only can collect if you are laid off, not if you quit, or are even relocated, and refuse to move. Then you can only collect for exactly one year, and if you don't work by then, you starve.

Socialist countries rarely have to resort to welfare... didn't you know that?

That's the kind of system I support. Not you. Not your welfare, leech of society living off the hard work of others for life, system that you propose and constantly push.

My society consists of all kinds of people , capitalist leeches as well as a few welfare leeches.

 

[there4eyeM]

The French system works fine.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

oh I see, YOU determine the standard and if YOU are happy then we are set. I reject the idea that you are something special there snowflake, and let me be clear in my conversation with you, I am not bitching as much about your HC system as I could not really care less what you do down there, I am bitching about you specifically. You are a self-righteous asshole declaring your thoughts and health care system superior.

Another thing to get straight here dumbfuk, it is the left, with people like you, that is constantly bitching here in the states. A lot of them don't work, and guess who is spending their days protesting?

Unlike you Petal? Bitching? Have you been on here the past eight years? All you neo con loons have been doing is bitching and moaning.

**** off about not working you arrogant ****. White unemployed trailer trash are the ones who voted for the Orange Buffoon.

I'm not saying our healthcare is superior, I'm saying socialised medicine is not as bad as you little Petals say it is. I'm defending it because you nimrods don't have a clue what you are talking about.

I dont complain about taxes, I complain about the way they are wasted trying to keep those alive that serve no purpose to society.

Most of your tax money goes to support the military and the working poor - you know, the people who are paid less than a living wage, while corporations take in record profits.

the working poor argument is idiotic, not all jobs qualify for a "living wage" I have no personal obligation to subsidize a non skilled, non educated individual just because they cant make ends meet on their job at Burger King.
Maybe you feel compelled to do so, and thats fine, you are certainly free to give every spare dollar you make to someone that needs it. You do not have a constitutional right to demand the rest of us pay into your pet projects.
by the way, you might want to check your numbers, you will find that welfare spending (social services) is quite a bit more than military spending. Paying the moochers is now over 70% of the revenue brought in.

And yet in my country, Burger King pays a living wage, as to McDonald's, Walmart and all of the other corporations who are leaching off the American middle class at home.

you should most likely just stay in your own country. Here, Burger King is not considered a high tech job.
as a matter of fact, if you dont live in the U.S, what right do you have to complain about anything that goes on here? Honestly, it is not possible that it affects you in any way regardless of how much Burger King pays here.

I didn't say that Burger King was a high tech job. You said that these people aren't entitled to a living wage. Anyone who works a 40 hour week should earn enough money to keep a roof over their head and food in their belly. You seem to resent subsidizing these wages, and you blame the people who aren't paid enough to live on, instead of the corporations who keep them dependent on government handouts.

You're blaming the wrong people. Blame those who benefit the most from this system - the employers and their shareholders.

those jobs are meant for high school kids, high school kids do not need a living wage. If you want a living wage then get training in a specific field or an education that will qualify you for a career job. You start paying the cashier at the fast food place a living wage and it wont be long before that fast food place is out of business.
I know you think the owner of that fast food franchise is getting rich, but the reality is that he is not, in some cases, the owner might not even make much more than a living wage. People like you that think every job can pay enough to raise a family on has no clue what it costs to run a business.
How about a grocery store? should everyone there make a living wage? where will that money come from? grocery stores only operate on about a 2% profit margin, so where is the money to double or triple everyones wages coming from? oh thats right, raise the price of the food they sell. but wait, if they do that, then that new living wage wont be enough to buy the food at the higher prices.
How about we just accept the fact that not everyone has put enough into their education to qualify for a living wage.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

how about the ones that pay no taxes because they are already sucking off the taxpayer for their welfare.
Kinda makes them a double deadbeat if you ask me.

 

[Dragonlady]

those jobs are meant for high school kids, high school kids do not need a living wage. If you want a living wage then get training in a specific field or an education that will qualify you for a career job. You start paying the cashier at the fast food place a living wage and it wont be long before that fast food place is out of business.
I know you think the owner of that fast food franchise is getting rich, but the reality is that he is not, in some cases, the owner might not even make much more than a living wage. People like you that think every job can pay enough to raise a family on has no clue what it costs to run a business.
How about a grocery store? should everyone there make a living wage? where will that money come from? grocery stores only operate on about a 2% profit margin, so where is the money to double or triple everyones wages coming from? oh thats right, raise the price of the food they sell. but wait, if they do that, then that new living wage wont be enough to buy the food at the higher prices.
How about we just accept the fact that not everyone has put enough into their education to qualify for a living wage.

Jobs in fast food outlets are not meant for high school kids. If they were, they'd be closed during school hours. I'm not suggesting that one should be able to raise a family on a minimum wage job, but it should pay enough to pay rent and buy food for the worker. Currently even those things have to be subsidized for the workers.

Fast food franchisees aren't getting rich but the executives at MacDonald's and Burger King sure are. Those are some of the most profitable corporations in America. Seems like the corporate headquarters take all of the profits, leaving the people who actually make and sell the burgers with little to show for their work.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

those jobs are meant for high school kids, high school kids do not need a living wage. If you want a living wage then get training in a specific field or an education that will qualify you for a career job. You start paying the cashier at the fast food place a living wage and it wont be long before that fast food place is out of business.
I know you think the owner of that fast food franchise is getting rich, but the reality is that he is not, in some cases, the owner might not even make much more than a living wage. People like you that think every job can pay enough to raise a family on has no clue what it costs to run a business.
How about a grocery store? should everyone there make a living wage? where will that money come from? grocery stores only operate on about a 2% profit margin, so where is the money to double or triple everyones wages coming from? oh thats right, raise the price of the food they sell. but wait, if they do that, then that new living wage wont be enough to buy the food at the higher prices.
How about we just accept the fact that not everyone has put enough into their education to qualify for a living wage.

Jobs in fast food outlets are not meant for high school kids. If they were, they'd be closed during school hours. I'm not suggesting that one should be able to raise a family on a minimum wage job, but it should pay enough to pay rent and buy food for the worker. Currently even those things have to be subsidized for the workers.

Fast food franchisees aren't getting rich but the executives at MacDonald's and Burger King sure are. Those are some of the most profitable corporations in America. Seems like the corporate headquarters take all of the profits, leaving the people who actually make and sell the burgers with little to show for their work.

4% of gross sales is what the McDonalds corporation takes from its Franchises. 4%. really is not that much.
oh, and they would be closed during the school hours, not really, there are also college kids, kids with half days, kids that dont have classes every day (those are the smarter kids)

 

[Dragonlady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

I'm so jealous. I was 100% behind it when I voted for Obama. That's what I thought I was going to get. Then we get this shambles of a mess instead.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

how about the ones that pay no taxes because they are already sucking off the taxpayer for their welfare.
Kinda makes them a double deadbeat if you ask me.

Oh, shaddup. I'm sick of hearing about you stingy assholes and your welfare whining.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

and then wait 6 months for your appointment.
I like the way it is or was before the ACA screwed everything up. I would call and get a same day appointment, most I ever waited for a specialist was 5 days,

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

I'm so jealous. I was 100% behind it when I voted for Obama. That's what I thought I was going to get. Then we get this shambles of a mess instead.

might not be so jealous if you actually looked at how it was funded. You think fuel is expensive here? look at some places like NZ where a gallon of fuel is close to $7.00 due to taxes to cover the cost of the "free" health care.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

how about the ones that pay no taxes because they are already sucking off the taxpayer for their welfare.
Kinda makes them a double deadbeat if you ask me.

Oh, shaddup. I'm sick of hearing about you stingy assholes and your welfare whining.

well to be honest, we are somewhat sick of you thieving bastards constantly trying to take more of what is rightfully ours to pay for your free lifestyle.
I guess it all depends on how much self respect you have, if you have none, then you have no problem stealing other peoples labor.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

and then wait 6 months for your appointment.
I like the way it is or was before the ACA screwed everything up. I would call and get a same day appointment, most I ever waited for a specialist was 5 days,

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

I'm so jealous. I was 100% behind it when I voted for Obama. That's what I thought I was going to get. Then we get this shambles of a mess instead.

might not be so jealous if you actually looked at how it was funded. You think fuel is expensive here? look at some places like NZ where a gallon of fuel is close to $7.00 due to taxes to cover the cost of the "free" health care.

I was willing to have a bigger hunk of my paycheck eaten. At least it would have been worth something if we had universal healthcare.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

and then wait 6 months for your appointment.
I like the way it is or was before the ACA screwed everything up. I would call and get a same day appointment, most I ever waited for a specialist was 5 days,

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

I'm so jealous. I was 100% behind it when I voted for Obama. That's what I thought I was going to get. Then we get this shambles of a mess instead.

might not be so jealous if you actually looked at how it was funded. You think fuel is expensive here? look at some places like NZ where a gallon of fuel is close to $7.00 due to taxes to cover the cost of the "free" health care.

I was willing to have a bigger hunk of my paycheck eaten. At least it would have been worth something if we had universal healthcare.

I would be willing to have a greater amount taken from my check if it went toward a wall and the cost of finding and deporting all of the illegals.
Hopefully that will come soon.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

how about the ones that pay no taxes because they are already sucking off the taxpayer for their welfare.
Kinda makes them a double deadbeat if you ask me.

Oh, shaddup. I'm sick of hearing about you stingy assholes and your welfare whining.

well to be honest, we are somewhat sick of you thieving bastards constantly trying to take more of what is rightfully ours to pay for your free lifestyle.
I guess it all depends on how much self respect you have, if you have none, then you have no problem stealing other peoples labor.

Amble over to the nearest rosebush, sit and ROTATE. I've never taken anything from the government. People like you hurt the conservative argument more than you help it with your stupid overgeneralizations.

 

[OldLady]

It can't work, because the deadbeats will always abuse the system every time…

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

and then wait 6 months for your appointment.
I like the way it is or was before the ACA screwed everything up. I would call and get a same day appointment, most I ever waited for a specialist was 5 days,

In socialized medicine, there are no deadbeats, except for people who don't pay their taxes, like Donald Trump.

There's also no incentive to "abuse" the system. Medical care is a given. If you're sick you go to the doctor. You're not going to get a bill for it or have to complete paperwork to do so. You just call the office and make an appointment, or walk into emergency.

I'm so jealous. I was 100% behind it when I voted for Obama. That's what I thought I was going to get. Then we get this shambles of a mess instead.

might not be so jealous if you actually looked at how it was funded. You think fuel is expensive here? look at some places like NZ where a gallon of fuel is close to $7.00 due to taxes to cover the cost of the "free" health care.

I was willing to have a bigger hunk of my paycheck eaten. At least it would have been worth something if we had universal healthcare.

I would be willing to have a greater amount taken from my check if it went toward a wall and the cost of finding and deporting all of the illegals.
Hopefully that will come soon.

I'm sure that will happen (a greater amount taken from our checks). Yes, I heard on the news this a.m. that Trump is ordering the hiring of 15,000 more border guards and people to process the illegals. It's out of my hands; what will be will be.