Social Security faces a $32 trillion shortfall

[rightwinger]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

 

[Al Azar]

Reagan hasn't been President in 27 years. That's plenty of time to tear down the bricks.

The bricks are the 1983 Amendments to the Social Security Act. Tell your congressman what you'd like him to do.

 

[Conservative65]

Reagan hasn't been President in 27 years. That's plenty of time to tear down the bricks.

The bricks are the 1983 Amendments to the Social Security Act. Tell your congressman what you'd like him to do.

Tell those opposing the opt out to stop opposing it.

 

[easyt65]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

That's not how it was sold / set-up. And ever hear of the 'locked box'? SS was always mean to be for those wo paid in, NOT a political slush fund, as it has been used.

 

[Conservative65]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

 

[Al Azar]

Why do you oppose people opting out? You'll come up with some excuse that you're looking out for them. The real reason is you know those that actually keep the system going would opt out, make far more on their own, and those that rely on the redistribution would have nothing. In other words, the higher incomes support the lower incomes. Typical redistribution mentality of the left.

SS is an insurance program. The larger the pool of insured, the stronger the system.

The problem with that is those contributing the most to the pool are getting the least proportional return and vice versa. In other words, the lower end is pissing in the pool and the upper end is paying to have it cleaned up.

Person A putting in at a 4x higher amount than person Person B for the same amount of time doesn't get 4x as much out. You and I both know the upper incomes are funding the system and the lower incomes get yet another handout as a result.

Yes, yes, we know. You're not being ignored on this, it's just not news to anyone. The system has been set up to assure that people who earned relatively little during their working lives receive a larger replacement percentage of that income.

This isn't a quirk. It's by design. You may not like the concept, but it's fundamental to the purpose of the existence of the system.

 

[rightwinger]

There are no funds. They are paid out to existing retirees. You are the one proposing to allow people to opt out. How do you propose paying benefits to those who are retired or will retire in the next decade?

I explained how. You don't listen.

You know damn good and well why you support such a system. Those that really fund it, the higher incomes, would opt out and the lower income people that won't do for themselves by investing on their own wouldn't have a dime. Again, redistribution.

Social Security is the system that we have. You can't wave your hand and make it go away. It has been paying benefits for 75 years. Before Social Security, people worked until they died or went to live with their children. For most working Americans, there was no "retirement" to look forward to. Social Security and Medicare provided a safety net for people who worked to be taken care of in their old age

When low incomes get a better return on their money than higher incomes despite paying in at the same rate, it's not a safety net, it's redistribution of wealth. If I pay in at an income 4x higher than someone else, why shouldn't I get out at a 4x higher amount. That's equal and I thought you lefties were all about equal.

Social Security is a retirement safety net. Your benefits are calculated based on what you contributed during your working career. Poor people do receive more to provide a basic standard of living, but they do not receive the same as those who contributed the maximum every year

They don't receive the same dollar amount because they didn't put in the same dollar amount. However, lower incomes receive a higher proportional distribution compared to the dollar amount they put in than higher incomes. That's redistribution and it's not right.

So?

We are a nation that takes care of the less fortunate. We don't want old people starving and SS provides a basic subsistence
It sucks being rich doesn't it?

 

[Conservative65]

Why do you oppose people opting out? You'll come up with some excuse that you're looking out for them. The real reason is you know those that actually keep the system going would opt out, make far more on their own, and those that rely on the redistribution would have nothing. In other words, the higher incomes support the lower incomes. Typical redistribution mentality of the left.

SS is an insurance program. The larger the pool of insured, the stronger the system.

The problem with that is those contributing the most to the pool are getting the least proportional return and vice versa. In other words, the lower end is pissing in the pool and the upper end is paying to have it cleaned up.

Person A putting in at a 4x higher amount than person Person B for the same amount of time doesn't get 4x as much out. You and I both know the upper incomes are funding the system and the lower incomes get yet another handout as a result.

Yes, yes, we know. You're not being ignored on this, it's just not news to anyone. The system has been set up to assure that people who earned relatively little during their working lives receive a larger replacement percentage of that income.

This isn't a quirk. It's by design. You may not like the concept, but it's fundamental to the purpose of the existence of the system.

In other words, low income freeloaders continue to be freeloaders. Pieces of shit.

 

[rightwinger]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

The US is the wealthiest nation on earth. That is what backs it up

Ponzi Schemes do not have that

 

[Conservative65]

I explained how. You don't listen.

You know damn good and well why you support such a system. Those that really fund it, the higher incomes, would opt out and the lower income people that won't do for themselves by investing on their own wouldn't have a dime. Again, redistribution.

Social Security is the system that we have. You can't wave your hand and make it go away. It has been paying benefits for 75 years. Before Social Security, people worked until they died or went to live with their children. For most working Americans, there was no "retirement" to look forward to. Social Security and Medicare provided a safety net for people who worked to be taken care of in their old age

When low incomes get a better return on their money than higher incomes despite paying in at the same rate, it's not a safety net, it's redistribution of wealth. If I pay in at an income 4x higher than someone else, why shouldn't I get out at a 4x higher amount. That's equal and I thought you lefties were all about equal.

Social Security is a retirement safety net. Your benefits are calculated based on what you contributed during your working career. Poor people do receive more to provide a basic standard of living, but they do not receive the same as those who contributed the maximum every year

They don't receive the same dollar amount because they didn't put in the same dollar amount. However, lower incomes receive a higher proportional distribution compared to the dollar amount they put in than higher incomes. That's redistribution and it's not right.

So?

We are a nation that takes care of the less fortunate. We don't want old people starving and SS provides a basic subsistence
It sucks being rich doesn't it?

Freeloaders while young continue to be freeloaders when old.

 

[easyt65]

If SS was truly 'secure', why has the govt raided it, why has it been mismanaged, why is there a shortfall, and why is it in heopardy of collapsing?

'Secure', my ass.

 

[Conservative65]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

The US is the wealthiest nation on earth. That is what backs it up

Ponzi Schemes do not have that

In other words, nothing.

 

[easyt65]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

The US is the wealthiest nation on earth. That is what backs it up

Ponzi Schemes do not have that

Translation: As long as there are still coins in the pockets of citizens that can still be seized by the govt then SS is 'secure'.

 

[Al Azar]

We are a nation that takes care of the less fortunate. We don't want old people starving and SS provides a basic subsistence
It sucks being rich doesn't it?

Two miles down the road from where we live used to be the county poor farm. It was for destitute widows and hardrock miners to live out their days on the taxpayer's dime.

Those poor farms disappeared shortly after the SS system was established and started paying benefits to workers and their survivors.

I wonder if there's a connection...

 

[Camp]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

Yes, the US Government and the people it represents made a moral commitment to provide a system that helps prevent senior Americans from living in complete lives of destitution and poverty. They made the commitment 80 years ago and have repeatedly restated and reinforced that commitment. They are able to guarantee their commitment because they have the authority and power to legislate, budget and tax to adapt and adjust to changing circumstances.

 

[easyt65]

We are a nation that takes care of the less fortunate. We don't want old people starving and SS provides a basic subsistence
It sucks being rich doesn't it?

Two miles down the road from where we live used to be the county poor farm. It was for destitute widows and hardrock miners to live out their days on the taxpayer's dime.

Those poor farms disappeared shortly after the SS system was established and started paying benefits to workers and their survivors.

I wonder if there's a connection...

Nice 'story', bro...

...but it has absolutely nothing to do with the mismanagement of seized tax payer dollars in a programmow a Ponzi Scheme that is in jeopardy of collapse.

 

[Conservative65]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

Yes, the US Government and the people it represents made a moral commitment to provide a system that helps prevent senior Americans from living in complete lives of destitution and poverty. They made the commitment 80 years ago and have repeatedly restated and reinforced that commitment. They are able to guarantee their commitment because they have the authority and power to legislate, budget and tax to adapt and adjust to changing circumstances.

In other words, they let those that were freeloaders continue to be freeloaders.

 

[Al Azar]

Nice 'story', bro...

...but it has absolutely nothing to do with the mismanagement of seized tax payer dollars in a programmow a Ponzi Scheme that is in jeopardy of collapse.

And that comment has nothing to do with this discussion of the Social Security System and its management.

 

[rightwinger]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

The US is the wealthiest nation on earth. That is what backs it up

Ponzi Schemes do not have that

Translation: As long as there are still coins in the pockets of citizens that can still be seized by the govt then SS is 'secure'.

More than just coins

The US has $130 trillion in wealth. When we create a retirement system, it is backed up by the US government. A Ponzi Scheme does not have that backing

 

[rightwinger]

Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and never has been.

SS:
The govt takes money from YOUR paycheck as an investment with the promise of a payout later.
The govt promises it is YOUR money set aside for YOU, not anyone else.
The govt then unlocks the 'locked box' and spends the shite out of SS money.
The govt declares a 'shortfall'
-- Again, if you take my $20 and put it in a shoebox, and I come to get it later and you tell me it isn't there, how the hell did the 'shortfall' happen? YOU SPENT MY MONEY.
YOUR MONEY is now GONE
The money of new / younger people paying in is not going into a box somewhere for them, since it is there money...it is going to pay the benefits of those whose money the govt has already spent.

...but it's not a Ponzi scheme. Riiiiiiight.

You do not have a shoebox with YOUR money in it

Your money and that contributed by your employer goes to pay those who are retired right now. When you retire, someone else will pay for you

What makes it not a Ponzi Scheme is that Social Security is secured by the US Government.

Tell me what backs up that claim of security. Because they say so?

Yes, the US Government and the people it represents made a moral commitment to provide a system that helps prevent senior Americans from living in complete lives of destitution and poverty. They made the commitment 80 years ago and have repeatedly restated and reinforced that commitment. They are able to guarantee their commitment because they have the authority and power to legislate, budget and tax to adapt and adjust to changing circumstances.

In other words, they let those that were freeloaders continue to be freeloaders.

We are the wealthiest nation on earth

We the People have decided that we will take care of our poorest citizens. That means we do not want the wealthiest nation on earth having people begging for food and shelter
Now I know that upsets you "Dog eat dog world" assholes, but that is the way it is