So What Was The Point of Obamacare Again?

[JakeStarkey]

hm and avory are the weird bots far beyond the normal right

they are nothing but jokes to normal people

 

[healthmyths]

the point was an opportunity to implement Cloward-Pivens to purposely overwhelm the system.


They manufacture a "crisis" and then implement a "solution" that actually makes the "crisis" worse...and moreover it purposely makes implementing a real solution to the crisis next to impossible by creating an almost impenetrable tangle of "regulations" and "laws"...

Of course the point being that every "solution" to the crisis will entail purposely overwhelming fed govt programs in an effort to cause those programs and the fed govt to implode under it's own weight.

There were NEVER 46 million uninsured Americans!
10 million are NOT citizens the CENSUS even says so!
14 million were already eligible for Medicaid... all Obama's inefficient CMS had to do was register them! BUT no... they counted them as "uninsured" to beef up the numbers.
18 million under 34 make over $50,000 but don't buy their employers' health plans cause they don't them! Yet they were bogusly counted as part of the fabricated Crisis of 46 million uninsured.
REALITY... 4 million people need health insurance and could easily have it paid for with a tax on the $270 billion lawyers make!
Each of the 4 million would have a $5,000 premium and the TAX on the lawyers would be tied directly to the decline of the $850 billion a year that 90% of physicians surveyed report they send claims totaling over $850 billion a year for duplicate tests, referrals,etc... all because they fear being sued!
What group causes these lawsuits? Lawyers!

 

[JakeStarkey]

healthmyths, your numbers have been debunked countless times here.

So you do not get "just once more." You are wrong, deliberately so, thus shut up.

 

[healthmyths]

healthmyths, your numbers have been debunked countless times here.

So you do not get "just once more." You are wrong, deliberately so, thus shut up.

NO they have NEVER BEEN DEBUNKED DUMMY!
Prove to me where the CENSUS NEVER counted 10 million people that were ILLEGALs as part of the 46 million uninsured?
HERE once and for all ...dummy if you can READ read it!!!
Proof: Income Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States 2009 - Income Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Dummy LOOK at below TABLE from the above link:
NOTE NOT A CITIZEN... 2008 there were 9,511,000 counted as without insurance BUT THEY AREN"T ELIGIBLE!!
NOTE: NOT A CITZEN... 2009 There were 9,936,000 counted... THEY AREN'T citizens!!!
So why were they used by the people pushing this "crisis" of uninsured when the Not a citizen were not eligible???

Prove to me that the CENSUS NEVER said this:
Of the 44.7 million identified in Census..
https://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
14 million were reachable through existing government programs such as Medicaid and SCHIP!!!
14 million counted as part of the 46 million "uninsured"! Total total crap!
In the latest Census health insurance report, the Census Bureau ACKNOWLEDGES that the survey
"...underreports Medicare and Medicaid coverage compared with enrollment and participation data from the Centers for medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS)"

According to ARC this "Medicaid undercount" leads to an over-assessment of the uninsured population!
Meaning the figure 46 million is blown out of proportion based on CMS' own numbers of participants!
Meaning there never were 46 million "uninsured!!!

Finally 18 million people DON"T WANT HEALTH INSURANCE... YET THEY ARE COUNTED BOGUSLY AND FRAUDULENTLY AS PART OF THE 46 MILLION!
18 million under 34 don't NEED insurance. Can afford employers' plans as they make over $50k.
These people are being forced to buy and they don't WANT! They don't and won't use it yet they were counted!
Uninsured by Choice Update NCPA

Add 10 million that aren't legal to 14 million that are eligible but never contacted by Medicaid/SCHIP and 18 million that don't want can afford and
you come up with 42 million counted falsely as part of the exaggerated 46 million.... that leaves less then 4 million that truly wanted and needed coverage!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Propaganda campaign and nothing more. No, hm, not "just once more." Never again.

 

[healthmyths]

Propaganda campaign and nothing more. No, hm, not "just once more." Never again.

Any idiot can say what you just said and YOU are truly embarrassing yourself!
Propaganda from the CENSUS bureau??? They admit 24 million people are not "uninsured"! Because 10 million are not legal and 14 million are eligible and should have been covered by Medicaid/SCHIP except the ineptness of Obama and his idiot supporters like you that can't even count!
And 18 million people should NOT be forced to buy something they don't need!
Why is it so hard to comprehend that the 46 million supposedly uninsured was the PRIME reason ACA passed.
If more people realized there NEVER were 46 million we would never had this debacle!
So prove me wrong which is obvious you can't ! But keep up embarrassing yourself and credibility is certainly going downhill every time you make a comment like above!

 

[asterism]

I was asking about part D of medicare for my father. Seems like he never signed up for part D. So I called his insurance company and asked about a perscription plan. I was told that if he has not signed up there is a penalty for doing so. A person with 5 years is paying a penalty of 20 dollars per month. He is 17 years past 65 I can't imagine the penalty.

So I asked what was the point of the penalty, silence. I finally said I think it is to help them, the insurance company, not my dad.

The penalty goes to the government, not an insurance company.

You can calculate the Part D Penalty here. The maximum penalty possible is $32.64 because they didn't start assessing the penalty until 2006.

 

[asterism]

When I was born (1963) the hospital stay cost my parents $50.

Can we go back to that?

I've come to the conclusion that what we pay in co-pays is what health care would cost if there were no insurance whatsoever. By making health insurance a tax deductible benefit for corporations (thanks to FDR's wage controls), the net result has been to suppress wage growth while money is funneled to Big Insurance Government Cronies.

That is exactly the case I saw twice. In the first situation my wife got pregnant with our son and the co-pay for all maternity treatment including childbirth was $5000. We moved shortly after my son was born and had new insurance without the maternity rider. She got pregnant (surprise) and we had to pay for all of the maternity and childbirth expenses out of pocket (insurance was not covering it). The total was just over $5100.

In the second situation one of my daughters caught a nasty flu when she was 6. The co-pays using our in-network pediatrician were $375 including the medication. My next oldest daughter was 5 and caught the same flu a week later and I was frustrated with the 3 hours I had to wait for each of my other daughter's appointments so I went to a cash-only doctor. The total cash (no insurance billing) cost was just under $380.

 

[boedicca]

When I was born (1963) the hospital stay cost my parents $50.

Can we go back to that?

I've come to the conclusion that what we pay in co-pays is what health care would cost if there were no insurance whatsoever. By making health insurance a tax deductible benefit for corporations (thanks to FDR's wage controls), the net result has been to suppress wage growth while money is funneled to Big Insurance Government Cronies.

That is exactly the case I saw twice. In the first situation my wife got pregnant with our son and the co-pay for all maternity treatment including childbirth was $5000. We moved shortly after my son was born and had new insurance without the maternity rider. She got pregnant (surprise) and we had to pay for all of the maternity and childbirth expenses out of pocket (insurance was not covering it). The total was just over $5100.

In the second situation one of my daughters caught a nasty flu when she was 6. The co-pays using our in-network pediatrician were $375 including the medication. My next oldest daughter was 5 and caught the same flu a week later and I was frustrated with the 3 hours I had to wait for each of my other daughter's appointments so I went to a cash-only doctor. The total cash (no insurance billing) cost was just under $380.

Bingo. All insurance does is subsidize all the expenses and profits of the insurance company.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Fine, get rid of it. BTW, I hope you're willing to give up your Medicare.

I'd be perfectly happy to keep my tax money to invest in my own health savings account, to pay for regular health care services on my own, and have a catastrophic care policy. This combination would be far less expensive than the government enabled health care insurance monstrosity which is just a way to make prepaid health care incredibly expensive.

Oh my. When my father died in 03/04 he ran up almost $100,000 worth of bills.

My fairly well off father in law is probably nearing the half million mark. I don't know if the average person can save that much. But hey, if you would live with throwing my father in law and yours out on the street to wait for the savior in sandals to come heal him I guess it would be fair.

You are a moron. There's not point explaining to you what catastrophic and long term care policies are. Nor would you understand the concept of investing one's own money to care for oneself instead of paying taxes to a corrupt centralized bureaucracy that skims most of it for its own preservation.

Have you socked away hundreds of thousands of dollars in case you get cancer? Heart disease requiring a bypass? SIt down and shut up.

I'm not a tacky person who discusses her income or wealth on message boards.

Clearly, you are yet another low info troglodyte who doesn't grok the concept of what insurance is. Proper insurance is for catastrophic situations. Instead, what we have is such coverage combined with incredibly expensive prepaid care. The latter is what is driving up costs, and making the catastrophic coverage less meaningful due to enormous deductibles.

Having had a spouse die from cancer and still having copies of all the bills which were submitted to Empire Blue ($1,300,000.00+/-) for his care over almost 4 years, I can tell you that insurance companies want cancer patients to die and die quickly. If they don't and the bills mount up from the docs and hospitals, they will fight you tooth and nail before they pay. And our policy was through an Ivy League university, not some off-brand worthless paper.

And what is driving costs up isn't Obamacare, it's the millions of people who relied on the ER because they had no insurance. Repeal Obamacare and your bills will go so far up your tacky self that you'll end up going to the ER for the flu or worse, too.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

When I was born (1963) the hospital stay cost my parents $50.

Can we go back to that?

I've come to the conclusion that what we pay in co-pays is what health care would cost if there were no insurance whatsoever. By making health insurance a tax deductible benefit for corporations (thanks to FDR's wage controls), the net result has been to suppress wage growth while money is funneled to Big Insurance Government Cronies.

That is exactly the case I saw twice. In the first situation my wife got pregnant with our son and the co-pay for all maternity treatment including childbirth was $5000. We moved shortly after my son was born and had new insurance without the maternity rider. She got pregnant (surprise) and we had to pay for all of the maternity and childbirth expenses out of pocket (insurance was not covering it). The total was just over $5100.

In the second situation one of my daughters caught a nasty flu when she was 6. The co-pays using our in-network pediatrician were $375 including the medication. My next oldest daughter was 5 and caught the same flu a week later and I was frustrated with the 3 hours I had to wait for each of my other daughter's appointments so I went to a cash-only doctor. The total cash (no insurance billing) cost was just under $380.

Bingo. All insurance does is subsidize all the expenses and profits of the insurance company.

And rip off the consumer, you left that out. But then that's why insurance companies love twits like you.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare is finished. It doesnt matter what its purpose was.

What makes you say that?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

the point was an opportunity to implement Cloward-Pivens to purposely overwhelm the system.


They manufacture a "crisis" and then implement a "solution" that actually makes the "crisis" worse...and moreover it purposely makes implementing a real solution to the crisis next to impossible by creating an almost impenetrable tangle of "regulations" and "laws"...

Of course the point being that every "solution" to the crisis will entail purposely overwhelming fed govt programs in an effort to cause those programs and the fed govt to implode under it's own weight.

There were NEVER 46 million uninsured Americans!
10 million are NOT citizens the CENSUS even says so!
14 million were already eligible for Medicaid... all Obama's inefficient CMS had to do was register them! BUT no... they counted them as "uninsured" to beef up the numbers.
18 million under 34 make over $50,000 but don't buy their employers' health plans cause they don't them! Yet they were bogusly counted as part of the fabricated Crisis of 46 million uninsured.
REALITY... 4 million people need health insurance and could easily have it paid for with a tax on the $270 billion lawyers make!
Each of the 4 million would have a $5,000 premium and the TAX on the lawyers would be tied directly to the decline of the $850 billion a year that 90% of physicians surveyed report they send claims totaling over $850 billion a year for duplicate tests, referrals,etc... all because they fear being sued!
What group causes these lawsuits? Lawyers!

Post hard data link or sit down and shut up. And no blogs....Real facts.

 

[dblack]

When I was born (1963) the hospital stay cost my parents $50.

Can we go back to that?

I've come to the conclusion that what we pay in co-pays is what health care would cost if there were no insurance whatsoever. By making health insurance a tax deductible benefit for corporations (thanks to FDR's wage controls), the net result has been to suppress wage growth while money is funneled to Big Insurance Government Cronies.

That is exactly the case I saw twice. In the first situation my wife got pregnant with our son and the co-pay for all maternity treatment including childbirth was $5000. We moved shortly after my son was born and had new insurance without the maternity rider. She got pregnant (surprise) and we had to pay for all of the maternity and childbirth expenses out of pocket (insurance was not covering it). The total was just over $5100.

In the second situation one of my daughters caught a nasty flu when she was 6. The co-pays using our in-network pediatrician were $375 including the medication. My next oldest daughter was 5 and caught the same flu a week later and I was frustrated with the 3 hours I had to wait for each of my other daughter's appointments so I went to a cash-only doctor. The total cash (no insurance billing) cost was just under $380.

Bingo. All insurance does is subsidize all the expenses and profits of the insurance company.

And rip off the consumer, you left that out. But then that's why insurance companies love twits like you.

Not as much as they love the twits who supported ACA.

 

[Plasmaball]

Fine, get rid of it. BTW, I hope you're willing to give up your Medicare.

I'd be perfectly happy to keep my tax money to invest in my own health savings account, to pay for regular health care services on my own, and have a catastrophic care policy. This combination would be far less expensive than the government enabled health care insurance monstrosity which is just a way to make prepaid health care incredibly expensive.

Oh my. When my father died in 03/04 he ran up almost $100,000 worth of bills.

My fairly well off father in law is probably nearing the half million mark. I don't know if the average person can save that much. But hey, if you would live with throwing my father in law and yours out on the street to wait for the savior in sandals to come heal him I guess it would be fair.

You are a moron. There's not point explaining to you what catastrophic and long term care policies are. Nor would you understand the concept of investing one's own money to care for oneself instead of paying taxes to a corrupt centralized bureaucracy that skims most of it for its own preservation.

Where does the 'investment' money come from when a family of, say, four, currently covered by Medicaid,

loses their Medicaid as people like you would like to see happen? Magic?

You Progs always resort to burning your phony strawmen.

Don't you realize that you are contributing to AGW?

strawman or your conspiracies....Wow toss up

 

[Freewill]

I was asking about part D of medicare for my father. Seems like he never signed up for part D. So I called his insurance company and asked about a perscription plan. I was told that if he has not signed up there is a penalty for doing so. A person with 5 years is paying a penalty of 20 dollars per month. He is 17 years past 65 I can't imagine the penalty.

So I asked what was the point of the penalty, silence. I finally said I think it is to help them, the insurance company, not my dad.

The penalty goes to the government, not an insurance company.

You can calculate the Part D Penalty here. The maximum penalty possible is $32.64 because they didn't start assessing the penalty until 2006.

What is the point? Why to the government?

 

[MaryL]

To make as many people lose their jobs as possible? I lost my job of over 20 years, because of Obama care. I Hope Obama realizes what harm this imaginary entitlement has done. But, he won't, liberals focus on what little GOOD they do to excuse their delusions. Thanks for listening to ALL Americans, Obama liberals. Thanks, where am I going to find a new job now? Under Obama's left testicle?

 

[Flopper]

2014 allowed for late enrollees.

This is the lowest monthly uninsured rate recorded since Gallup and Healthways began tracking it in January 2008, besting the previous low of 13.9% in September of that year. Also ignored is the employer mandate which begins in 2015.

The implication that reducing the number of insured Americans was the only reason for Obamacare is preposterous. Some people seem to need a little review here. Obamacare eliminated preexisting condition requirements for insurance, removed yearly and lifetime caps on benefits, expanded Medicaid, partially subsided health insurance for low income earners, required insurance to offer dependent coverage to age 26, introduced pay for performance strategies to improve care and reduce costs, required 80% of premiums be paid back in benefits, and required all plans to offer the following essential benefits.

Emergency Services
Inpatient care
Maternity and newborn care
Mental health services and addiction treatment
Prescription drugs
Rehabilitative services and devices
Laboratory services
Preventive and wellness services, & chronic disease treatment
Pediatric services including vision and dental to children

Although the number of insured has fallen and will continue to do so, insurance companies are required to offer many additional benefits, previously only available in the best plans.

 

[Flopper]

I was asking about part D of medicare for my father. Seems like he never signed up for part D. So I called his insurance company and asked about a perscription plan. I was told that if he has not signed up there is a penalty for doing so. A person with 5 years is paying a penalty of 20 dollars per month. He is 17 years past 65 I can't imagine the penalty.

So I asked what was the point of the penalty, silence. I finally said I think it is to help them, the insurance company, not my dad.

You have a penalty for delaying the signup for Medicare Part D drug coverage because the need for drugs rises sharply as seniors age yet the yearly premium is not based on age, so the law requires a penalty if you start when your're older. It's the same with part B coverage if you delay it past age 65.

If I had to pay a penalty, I would analysis my drug cost and consider buying from Canadian pharmacies. There are many reliable ones which can save you 50% to 75% off the cost of brand name drugs.

 

[Flopper]

Obamacare is finished. It doesnt matter what its purpose was.

What makes you say that?

Obamacare is here to stay. I have no doubt that there will be changes in the coming years but the most important features, no preexisting condition, subsidies for the poor, expanded Medicaid, required essential coverage and benefits will remain. Obama would certainly veto any repeal.