So the lefties are trying to derail Christie's run before it even starts.

[JQPublic1]

I have to laugh at how delusional some of you bed wetters are.

2010 was a massive win for the GOP. They gained every seat possible not just federally, but statewide.

The only "win" you bed wetters had in 2012 was keeping your fuhrer in office in spite of common sense. You barely won that election and it was only because your propagandists in the media destroyed every candidate until Romney was the only one left and no one in the republican camp really wanted him to begin with.

It was a good strategy, but that marginal victory will likely be a precursor to yet another stunning defeat in 2014. If I'm wrong I'm already prepared to "Go Galt" and jump ship before you parasites implode the country, but I'm optimistic enough to hang around for a while in hopes you assholes commit another "Jonestown" on a much more significant scale.

There you go again... under estimating the "WILL OF THE PEOPLE." You right winged crooks might steal a few seats in the house here and there this year but your chances of getting a GOP president elected in 2016 looks rather dismal. The GOP keeps shooting itself in the foot.

Wait till we bring the muzzle up and resist you.

Bad choice! You'd be out muzzled by sheer numbers. Majority rules!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have to laugh at how delusional some of you bed wetters are.

2010 was a massive win for the GOP. They gained every seat possible not just federally, but statewide.

The only "win" you bed wetters had in 2012 was keeping your fuhrer in office in spite of common sense. You barely won that election and it was only because your propagandists in the media destroyed every candidate until Romney was the only one left and no one in the republican camp really wanted him to begin with.

It was a good strategy, but that marginal victory will likely be a precursor to yet another stunning defeat in 2014. If I'm wrong I'm already prepared to "Go Galt" and jump ship before you parasites implode the country, but I'm optimistic enough to hang around for a while in hopes you assholes commit another "Jonestown" on a much more significant scale.

There you go again... under estimating the "WILL OF THE PEOPLE." You right winged crooks might steal a few seats in the house here and there this year but your chances of getting a GOP president elected in 2016 looks rather dismal. The GOP keeps shooting itself in the foot.

View attachment 28982

click on image to make larger​

Wait till we bring the muzzle up and resist you.

Only at the ballot box, mutt? And armed resistance threat is a mutt threat.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

One claim at a time.


Conservatives are "live and let live"?

Demonstrate that, please.

American tax policy.

Conservative thought is people should work for a living and be able to keep their earnings. Taxes should be used more as payment for services rendered rather than redistribution of wealth.

Liberal thought is that "I" know what is best for America and for you. I will tax your income and put those taxes to use in what I deem best and some of those taxes must naturally come to me as compensation.

Immie

You leave out so much.....trying to have this discussion will bore me to death. Your view of what conservatives and liberals think regarding taxation is that of a simpleton.

So disappointed.

 

[Immanuel]

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Agree with most of what you said, but I'd add a small semantic wrinkle that is probably meaningless. I think real Libertarians (of which there are few) believe in "Live and Let Live", but many conservatives see a strong role for the State when it comes to enforcing social tradition, religion, morality, etc. Most of the regulations imposed on television come from conservative groups who believe that obscenity is corrupting our youth. These people want Big Government to play a large role in making sure our public sphere is free of obscenity, etc, and a fairly significant number want to use the centralizing power of Washington to impose their Christian Moral Vision. Do some research on evangelical lobbying groups and what they want from Washington.

I think Reagan, combining Libertarian fiscal policy with Conservative social policy, created a lot of confusion inside the minds of people who have never studied either outside of the popular media. Reagan's almost comical confusion of these two very distinct belief systems likely stems from Mr. Conservative - Barry Goldwater - who butchered the theoretical divide between Libertarianism and Conservatism. Any cursory glance of the things he said about the Christian Right or Homosexuality would make social conservatives cringe. But like Reagan, he kew the party needed a populism to attract the non-wealthy, so he played the conservative card. I applaud William F Buckley for attacking Ayn Rand and setting up some clear boundaries between Conservatism and Libertarianism, though I otherwise found him remarkably shallow.

Are the "Religious Right" conservative or liberal in nature? Hehe, I submit they are liberal in nature.

*************************************************************

NOTE I will freely admit that as I am moving on with these posts, I am kind of laughing inside because truly what I have set up is that since in my humble opinion true conservatism is an impossibility and therefore all politicians are liberal and every thing is their fault, it means my side can't lose. That is not at all fair.

This does not work, because no person is completely conservative or completely liberal. We all lay somewhere in between.

I saw that someone, Plasmaball, I think mentioned abortion and a couple of other areas. As most of you know I am pro-life. How can I say conservatives are live and let live and justify my stance on abortion? Easy, I believe life begins at conception and I defend the life of the child. I hate the fact that this stance naturally contains a conflict between the "right" of the woman and the right of the child, but unfortunately, that conflict exists. I personally struggle with this. Suffice it to say, I am not pure conservative!

I hope these leads to some good discussion.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

One claim at a time.


Conservatives are "live and let live"?

Demonstrate that, please.

American tax policy.

Conservative thought is people should work for a living and be able to keep their earnings. Taxes should be used more as payment for services rendered rather than redistribution of wealth.

Liberal thought is that "I" know what is best for America and for you. I will tax your income and put those taxes to use in what I deem best and some of those taxes must naturally come to me as compensation.

Immie

You leave out so much.....trying to have this discussion will bore me to death. Your view of what conservatives and liberals think regarding taxation is that of a simpleton.

So disappointed.

Sure, you asked for an example, a demonstration, not a thesis.

There are a lot of intricacies involved in tax policy. I didn't expect to have to write a dissertation.

Immie

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Well, as usual, BedPan's thread has devolved because there was no "there" there. He spars valiantly with this cyber-sword but it ends up just being soft and rubbery, piercing nothing and enlightening no one.

 

[Londoner]

American tax policy.

Conservative thought is people should work for a living and be able to keep their earnings. Taxes should be used more as payment for services rendered rather than redistribution of wealth.

Liberal thought is that "I" know what is best for America and for you. I will tax your income and put those taxes to use in what I deem best and some of those taxes must naturally come to me as compensation.

What do you think about a class of people who, through corporations, draw massive subsidies from Government, but then, invest some of those subsidies into a rightwing message system which convinces voters that government is evil for stealing their money? Do you see the hoax? The puppet masters who draw trillions from the state (subsidies/bailouts) are strategically diverting your gaze to people living under bridges, on food stamps. They don't want you to know who government really serves. They feed you cliches about free markets and oppressive government, YET, they enjoy nanny state patent protection for their investments, and military protection for their overseas supply chains and oil fields. Do you understand the hoax?

Did you know that our satellite system came out of the Cold War Pentagon and NASA budgets, and was handed to the private sector where it was used to create some of our most profitable industries? Do your news sources mention how much the State does for the private sector? Do they mention how much subsidy grease Big Government puts on the market wheels so profit makers can realize dynastic fortunes and buy even more politicians? Do you understand the hoax?

Movement Conservatism, under Reagan, convinced us to shift government assets to the suppliers so they could more effectively grow the economy and provide jobs. This evolved into K Street, as our corporations built a lobbying empire along with the largest subsidy system ever known. As a voter, should you try harder to understand how much welfare corporations get from Government? [Do you know how much money Boeing, a private corporation, got from the Defense budget? Do you know which party played the largest role in this? Somebody made a choice how to spend your tax dollars because they know best. The entire system is built upon taxpayer gifts to corporations. Do your news sources mention this stuff? Do you understand the hoax?]

In the forties, Stalin stole Ayn Rand's father's pharmacy. Fast forward to today where the situation is just as bad, but in reverse: Big Pharma now owns government. Do you know how much money big pharma invests in our politicians? I think we all need to learn who really owns our government and where our tax dollars really go. At the end of the day we live under a system that bails our the wealthy corporate bankers but forecloses on the homeowner. Again, this too was a choice by those who claimed to know how best to spend your money, which, since Reagan/thatcher, has been upwardly redistributed.

Do you see the hoax?

 

[rightwinger]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

One claim at a time.

Conservatives are "live and let live"?

Demonstrate that, please.

American tax policy.

Conservative thought is people should work for a living and be able to keep their earnings. Taxes should be used more as payment for services rendered rather than redistribution of wealth.

Liberal thought is that "I" know what is best for America and for you. I will tax your income and put those taxes to use in what I deem best and some of those taxes must naturally come to me as compensation.

Immie

. American tax policy

Do what needs doing

 

[Immanuel]

American tax policy.

Conservative thought is people should work for a living and be able to keep their earnings. Taxes should be used more as payment for services rendered rather than redistribution of wealth.

Liberal thought is that "I" know what is best for America and for you. I will tax your income and put those taxes to use in what I deem best and some of those taxes must naturally come to me as compensation.

What do you think about a class of people who, through their corporations, draw massive subsidies from Government, but then, invest some of those subsidies into a rightwing message system which convinces voters that government is evil for stealing their money? Do you see the hoax? The puppet masters who draw trillions from the state (subsidies/bailouts) are strategically diverting your gaze to people living under bridges, on food stamps. They don't want you to know who government really serves. They feed you cliches about free markets and oppressive government, YET, they enjoy nanny state patent protection for their investments, and military protection for their overseas supply chains and oil fields. Do you understand the hoax?

Did you know that our satellite system came out of the Cold War Pentagon and NASA budgets, and was handed to the private sector where it was used to create some of our most profitable industries? Do your news sources mention this stuff? Do you understand the hoax?

Movement Conservatism, under Reagan, convinced us to shift government assets to the suppliers so they could more effectively grow the economy and provide jobs. This evolved into K Street, as our corporations built a lobbying empire which is responsible for the largest subsidy system ever known. As a voter, should you try harder to understand how much welfare corporations get from Government?

In the forties, Stalin stole Ayn Rand's father's pharmacy. Fast forward to today where Big Pharma, which invests trillions into politicians, owns Washington YET they fund a message machine that convinces low-information voters that we actually live in Stalin's Russia.

Do you see the hoax?

Am I going to have to write a dissertation here to?

What do I think about corporate welfare to give it a simple name?

Okay, I don't want to spend the time your post deserves to answer it and quite frankly, I have not thought about much of what you are asking. IMHO K Street and the corporate boards are just as "liberal" and corrupt as the politicians. They abuse our trust in the same manner.

I am sorry, I realize your post and questions deserve more than that, but I am not prepared to answer your questions

Immie

 

[Bfgrn]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

One claim at a time.

Conservatives are "live and let live"?

Demonstrate that, please.

Live and let live...Yea, AFTER you piss in a cup, turn all female uterus's over to the state and pass the conservative 'swimming lesson'

Throw everyone into the river, the ones who crawl up on shore 'pass'

 

[JoeB131]

yeah keep pushing to the right

You have learned nothing from your election losses

I hope we have. Romney was the most liberal candidate in the GOP field

actually, Huntsman was more liberal.

But if you think Romney lost because he wasn't Wingnutty enough, you are deluding yourself.

 

[Immanuel]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

One claim at a time.

Conservatives are "live and let live"?

Demonstrate that, please.

Live and let live...Yea, AFTER you piss in a cup, turn all female uterus's over to the state and pass the conservative 'swimming lesson'

Throw everyone into the river, the ones who crawl up on shore 'pass'

I think I would rather be dead than enslaved to someone like you. Your policies lead to enslavement. Or a better example would be the walking dead. Your policies turn people into zombies unable to live on their own without your "favor".

Immie

 

[Plasmaball]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

well no liberals are not like that nor are conservatives. American politics at its worst is not liberalism or conservative.

You have this idealistic dream of what the two labels are and you couldnt be more wrong about it. I guess that is what you get when you have rose colored glasses on.

Bernie Sanders comes to mind. Perfect? no, agree with him fully? No. Has the interest of the American public? Yeah i get a good feeling he does.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So the lefties are trying to derail Christie's run before it even starts. This could be a huge mistake on their part.

1. The public's attention span is very short.
2. Chris Christie isn't really a conservative and running him off can lead to a real conservative taking his place.
3. Hillery is VERY beatable and he isn't the only one who could do it.
4. Christie is what we call a Progressive Republican, he's not much different from Hillary and if he won he would continue a lot of your agenda.
5. If no link is established between Christie and this "scandal" he will actually gain the experience to handle the mud slinging and trash talking that the left will dish out further down the road.

I don't like Christie, he's a progressive but I saw him speak yesterday for the first time and he has the gift.

Once again Repubs aren't responsible for anything. Liberals made Christie do it

 

[Immanuel]

Continued from last post.

I am not saying conservatives are perfect or even could do a better job. But not one of our leaders has a conservative bone in his or her body.

We need conservatives AND liberals. We need both trains of thought to keep us moving forward but not at breakneck speed.

The conservative mind is much more of the "live and let live" philosophy; whereas, liberals believe that they know what is best for everyone else and everyone else will live by their rules come Hell or High Water! Liberals will sell their values to the highest bidder i.e. health insurance companies, union bosses etc. but a conservative while he may be wrong generally maintains his values come Hell or High Water.

Again there is not one American political leader who displays any conservative thought. They are ALL in it for personal wealth. They ALL will sell their values to the highest bidder. A conservative, right or wrong will stand by his beliefs, not so a liberal. There is no way you can spin it. That it liberalism at its finest. That is American politics at its worst. That is what will finally destroy this once great nation.

True conservatives are in it for the betterment of the people. Show me one single American political figure that is in it for the good of the people. Just one.

Immie

well no liberals are not like that nor are conservatives. American politics at its worst is not liberalism or conservative.

You have this idealistic dream of what the two labels are and you couldnt be more wrong about it. I guess that is what you get when you have rose colored glasses on.

Bernie Sanders comes to mind. Perfect? no, agree with him fully? No. Has the interest of the American public? Yeah i get a good feeling he does.

Are you talking about the difference in liberal vs. conservative in the American public or politicians?

Because in politics there is not a damned bit of difference between the two.

Immie

 

[hangover]

So the lefties are trying to derail Christie's run before it even starts.

It's cons like Rush Limpballs that are doing the derailing, saying "Cons should be running from Christie." Teabaggers demand a candidate to the right of Mussolini.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So the lefties are trying to derail Christie's run before it even starts.

It's cons like Rush Limpballs that are doing the derailing, saying "Cons should be running from Christie." Teabaggers demand a candidate to the right of Mussolini.

Liberals made Christie do that.

Liberals made Rush say that.

 

[hangover]

Liberals made Christie do that.

Liberals made Rush say that.

BWAH HA HA HA HA!
Envision liberals with a gun to their heads!
BWAH HA HA HA HA!
Your meds make you a funny guy.

 

[Immanuel]

Liberals made Christie do that.

Liberals made Rush say that.

[COLOR="Red"[SIZE="5"]]BWAH HA HA HA HA![/SIZE][/COLOR]
Envision liberals with a gun to their heads!
BWAH HA HA HA HA!
Your meds make you a funny guy.

I was envisioning the devil

Immie

 

[Vox]

How dense can you be? The left wing media is all over this story, and the liberals here have posted a plethora of threads on it.

I don't know why my phone changed the spelling of Hillary one time to Hillery.

I said Hillary is beatable and she is, for many reasons and it won't matter who runs against her.

And yes, it will be difficult because all if the reasons you mentioned, but not as difficult as Obama was.

And btw, you left out one more reason it will be difficult to beat a democrat; the ignorant and lazy now outnumber the smart and productive.

I would love for a nutter to prove that ignorant and lazy people vote.

Wanna try?

Ignorant and lazy...
Ok...Obama carried the white suburban moderate vote. The people who are focused on three things. Leaving their home in the morning, taking their little cupcakes to soccer practice and coming home.
They don't watch or read the news. They are too busy. They come home, close their garage door, close all the blinds in the windows. Their entire knowledge of the works is reading the headline on the front page of the newspaper which once that's over with, the paper gets tossed in the recycle bin. They watch crap like Real Housewives and other of those silly "reality" shows.
They chit chat in their cul de sac neighborhoods, I am voting for Obama because it's time for a black president"...."Oh yes, I agree."...They feared that a vote for another candidate would result in them no longer being invited to the annual block party and their crumb crunchers no longer welcome at play group.
Meanwhile they don't give a rat's ass about an issue unless it crawls across their immaculately kept front lawn.
That's ignorance( uninformed) and laziness.

Not in 2012