So no plane hit the Pentagon?

[strollingbones]

okay lets go with they killed them all in a hanger somewhere....who killed them...come on ...where you gonna find find young men or women willing to kill innocent civilians....women children small pets....come on people...who killed them? and how have the killers been silenced....

 

[HUGGY]

Is it possible that the plane was shot down just prior to hitting the Pentagon and a further errant missile hit the pentagon by mistake?
Just saying.

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Which hole are you talking about that is 18 feet across. The entry hole is much, much larger than 18 feet.

You probably also should take into account the buildings themselves (glass and steel of a skyscrpaer versus the fortified masonry of the Pentagon) when wondering aloud about the type of damage a plane would do to a structure.

The picture you have shown is not what I saw in he first moments of the pentagon shots. The picture you have displayed has a major portion of the upper floors collapsed. That did not occur in the initial damage. I do not know your purpose but it is obviously not truth.

 

[CurveLight]

Anybody that cannot believe that the plane crash into the Pentagon was a terrorist activity, or claim that this event never happened, is full of something and it isn't canned spam. How can you be so silly as to not believe this event happened just as reported? Giving in to the theory that a missile shot down the plane explain how a plane headed for California got so far off track as to be near the Pentagon? Then explain how a missile just happened to be in that area all ready to shoot this "off course and doomed" aircraft down to fulfill the rest of somebody's fantasy idea of what really happened. Come on, people. As hard as it is, try to use a bit of reason.

That is the common sense fallacy. You're skipping over all fundamental forensics and trying to claim anyone who simply does not accept the OCT is lacking common sense. ( I have no idea if that is an actually fallacy.....I just made up the term and am too lazy to google it.)

Point is, there are a multitude of aviation experts both military and civilian that present solid reasons why it was not a 757. Are they 100% correct? I don't know but in the very least they present information that is hard to reconcile with the OCT.

 

[CurveLight]

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Which hole are you talking about that is 18 feet across. The entry hole is much, much larger than 18 feet.

You probably also should take into account the buildings themselves (glass and steel of a skyscrpaer versus the fortified masonry of the Pentagon) when wondering aloud about the type of damage a plane would do to a structure.

The picture you have shown is not what I saw in he first moments of the pentagon shots. The picture you have displayed has a major portion of the upper floors collapsed. That did not occur in the initial damage. I do not know your purpose but it is obviously not truth.

The pattern of OCTAs
constantly presenting misleading information is one reason I question it all. If it was the simple truth why do they dance like a used car salesperson?

 

[CurveLight]

okay lets go with they killed them all in a hanger somewhere....who killed them...come on ...where you gonna find find young men or women willing to kill innocent civilians....women children small pets....come on people...who killed them? and how have the killers been silenced....

ROTFL! Where are you going to find people to kill innocent civilians?

Step 1
Unfold an atlas and tape it to the wall.

Step 2
Face the atlas with a dart in one hand.

Step 3
Put on a blindfold.

Step 4
Throw the dart.

Then you ask how have the killers been silenced? R u fo reel? What makes you think they would have to silenced? What could they possibly gain by going public? OCTAs
would call them liars and claim Truthers paid someone to admit to something that never happened. They would be public enemy number one and be sentenced to the death penalty. IF there were ANY behind the scenes moves the killers could:

Choose to live out their lives in a tropical climate from the money they made.

Or

Come to america and be put to death.

Yep! Makes perfect sense why the "nobody has come forward" strawman is evidence the OCT is true.

 

[CurveLight]

Is it possible that the plane was shot down just prior to hitting the Pentagon and a further errant missile hit the pentagon by mistake?
Just saying.

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Gotta disagree with the "best case" claim. If a 757 was shot down anywhere near the Pentagon it would have been impossible to conceal. I've made many road trips between VA Beach and DC and am familiar with the traffic areas surrounding the Pentagon.

 

[HUGGY]

Is it possible that the plane was shot down just prior to hitting the Pentagon and a further errant missile hit the pentagon by mistake?
Just saying.

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Gotta disagree with the "best case" claim. If a 757 was shot down anywhere near the Pentagon it would have been impossible to conceal. I've made many road trips between VA Beach and DC and am familiar with the traffic areas surrounding the Pentagon.

You missundergot what I meant by "best case". Open ocean is within 80 miles of the pentagon. That is where I guess the real flight 77 was shot down. At 500 mph it is less than ten minutes from the pentagon. By "best case" I meant that it was a real AA flight and we shot it down over the water to prevent more harm than the loss of the passengers. I could see a crazy person like the "DICK CHENEY" ordering a missle attack on an unimportant part of the pentagon to cover the discision to down a passenger plane.

 

[Terral]

Hi Retired:

So No Plane Hit The Pentagon?

Yes. 'A plane' did hit the Pentagon (my recent post), but NOT any 100-ton Jetliner. The plane to hit the Pentagon was a Retrofitted A-3 Skywarrior that struck the Pentagon at exactly 9:36:27 AM (my "What Happened" Topic).

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzxhRGevzEg"]Don Wright Witnessed The 9:36:27 AM A-3 Skywarrior Attack[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU2SSTNIds4]Michael Kelly Also Witnessed The 9:36:27 AM A-3 Skywarrior Attack[/ame]

GL,

Terral

 

[Toro]

Which hole are you talking about that is 18 feet across. The entry hole is much, much larger than 18 feet.

You probably also should take into account the buildings themselves (glass and steel of a skyscrpaer versus the fortified masonry of the Pentagon) when wondering aloud about the type of damage a plane would do to a structure.

The picture you have shown is not what I saw in he first moments of the pentagon shots. The picture you have displayed has a major portion of the upper floors collapsed. That did not occur in the initial damage. I do not know your purpose but it is obviously not truth.

The pattern of OCTAs
constantly presenting misleading information is one reason I question it all. If it was the simple truth why do they dance like a used car salesperson?

Here is a computer simulation on how the plane crashed into the Pentagon and left the damage that it did.

LS-DYNA Runs
CGVLAB @ Purdue University

It's funny because when the scientists first released this, they had all sorts of twoofers screaming at them that they were part of the conspiracy.

But that's what twoofers do.

 

[Toro]

okay lets go with they killed them all in a hanger somewhere....who killed them...come on ...where you gonna find find young men or women willing to kill innocent civilians....women children small pets....come on people...who killed them? and how have the killers been silenced....

ROTFL! Where are you going to find people to kill innocent civilians?

Step 1
Unfold an atlas and tape it to the wall.

Step 2
Face the atlas with a dart in one hand.

Step 3
Put on a blindfold.

Step 4
Throw the dart.

Then you ask how have the killers been silenced? R u fo reel? What makes you think they would have to silenced? What could they possibly gain by going public? OCTAs
would call them liars and claim Truthers paid someone to admit to something that never happened. They would be public enemy number one and be sentenced to the death penalty. IF there were ANY behind the scenes moves the killers could:

Choose to live out their lives in a tropical climate from the money they made.

Or

Come to america and be put to death.

Yep! Makes perfect sense why the "nobody has come forward" strawman is evidence the OCT is true.

Better question is what happened to all the people on the plane, and how did personal effects and their body parts wind up at the Pentagon?

Of course, that is just a "straw man," and diverts attention from highly important information about flight data recorders and cockpit doors.

 

[CurveLight]

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Gotta disagree with the "best case" claim. If a 757 was shot down anywhere near the Pentagon it would have been impossible to conceal. I've made many road trips between VA Beach and DC and am familiar with the traffic areas surrounding the Pentagon.

You missundergot what I meant by "best case". Open ocean is within 80 miles of the pentagon. That is where I guess the real flight 77 was shot down. At 500 mph it is less than ten minutes from the pentagon. By "best case" I meant that it was a real AA flight and we shot it down over the water to prevent more harm than the loss of the passengers. I could see a crazy person like the "DICK CHENEY" ordering a missle attack on an unimportant part of the pentagon to cover the discision to down a passenger plane.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying but I don't see that as a top possibility. One aspect of 77 is it was hijacked precisely in one of the Primary radar deadzones. That is one hell of a coincidence. By the OCT the attack had been meticulously planned yet they risked utter failure by taking 77 so far west. In taking off from Dulles they could have hit the Pentagon even before the first tower was struck. They were flying into the most guarded airspace in the world with a huge fucking neon sign.

As for a shoot down order, from mineta's testimony it sounded like a stand down order. Once an order to engage is given Soldiers, especially in the stratosphere circles of the WH, do not hesitate to do so. The Soldier repeatedly asking indicates a stand down order because he probably couldn't believe the VP was purposefully permitting an unauthorized aircraft to enter DC airspace while a military response was readily available. I wonder if anyone has ever identified that person. Last I checked they hadn't.

Another timeline issue is a statement attributed to Ted Olson on the 9/11myths site. Apparently when he learned of the 2nd tower strike he expressed relief on the basis it could not have been his wife's plane. That makes no sense. 77 was scheduled to take off at 8:10. That leaves about an hour and a hijacked plane could have made it to NYC within the hour. At the very least the distance was not so great as to warrant a complete dismissal of the possibility. But, the strangest statement by him is saying his wife called via her cell phone. A secretary took the office call so how would he know either way? Plus, didn't his wife have his cell or direct line number? His appearances on CNN, Fox, etc, were a foundation for saying 77 was hijacked. IF he played a false flag role it would make sense he would specifically say she called from her cell because he would have been anticipating people questioning how he knew for sure it was her. Saying the call was from her cell sounds more credible than an unknown device.

 

[Liability]

Ok Sunniman and Huggy explain where flight 77 went? How all the aircraft debris body parts and material got in the pentagon. Don't expect any help from troofers like Eots cause he has no idea according to him. Terrel will just make the claim there was never a flight to begin with.

If that is your claim explain how all the crew and passengers died and parts and bodies appeared in the Pentagon.

9/11/2001 never even happened.

Well, the day happened, but nothing actually happened on that day.

It was all psy op stuff.

None of us really saw what we all thought we saw.

In fact, the Twin Towers are still standing.

 

[eots]

Is it possible that a big lump of cheese fell off the Moon and landed on the Pentagon?

Just saying.

Sure, why not? That's just as good as any of the other conspiracy theories.

especially the one Bush/Cheney offered up

 

[roomy]

Is it possible that an aeroplane was hijacked by some murderous terrorists and deliberately flown into the Pentagon as part of a plan by terrorists involving hijacking aeroplanes and deliberately crashing them into pre planned targets including the Twin Towers, the White House and indeed the Pentagon?

Just saying.

 

[candycorn]

That would be a "best case" from what I believe. My whole problem with the pentagon site is that there is no way in my knowledge base that a 757 hit that building. In the aftermath of whatever did hit the pentagon there would have been plenty of time to transfer a few plane scraps and a few buckets of human tidbits to that location.

Whatever happened ...the hole in the building was too small for it to be caused by a 757....and I don't mean a little too small. If you need scale...look at the holes punched in the trade centers. Then look at the hole in the pentagon. A side of a trade center is a couple of hundred plus feet accross. The holes in them are about 150 feet accross. The pentagon hole is about 18 feet accross. Where is the missing 120 feet of hole if the pentagon was hit by a 757? That question as obvious as it is has never been even remotely answered.

Which hole are you talking about that is 18 feet across. The entry hole is much, much larger than 18 feet.

You probably also should take into account the buildings themselves (glass and steel of a skyscrpaer versus the fortified masonry of the Pentagon) when wondering aloud about the type of damage a plane would do to a structure.

The picture you have shown is not what I saw in he first moments of the pentagon shots. The picture you have displayed has a major portion of the upper floors collapsed. That did not occur in the initial damage. I do not know your purpose but it is obviously not truth.

Do you think the entire section of the Pentagon would have collapsed had there been only an 18 foot hole as what you speak of? Basically the size of 4-6 entry doors? Sheez...some people.

 

[Fizz]

Point is, there are a multitude of aviation experts both military and civilian that present solid reasons why it was not a 757. Are they 100% correct? I don't know but in the very least they present information that is hard to reconcile with the OCT.

we already went over this. at no point was the 757 (flight 77) ever not covered by radar. we know where it was the entire time.

anybody that thinks something other than a 757 hit the pentagon is a complete ass.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Mary Ann Owens, a journalist with Gannett News Service . . . was driving along by the side of the Pentagon, on September 11, 2001, when a hijacked jet screamed overhead and ploughed into it. . . .
Looking up didn't tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom. Realising the Pentagon was its target, I didn't think the careering, full-throttled craft would get that far. Its downward angle was too sharp, its elevation of maybe 50 feet, too low. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass. . . .
Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon.

Frank Probst . . . [a] Pentagon renovation worker and retired Army officer . . . was inspecting newly installed telecommunications wiring inside the five-story, 6.5-million-square-foot building.
. . . at about 9:35 a.m., he saw the airliner in the cloudless September sky.
American Airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon.
"He has lights off, wheels up, nose down," Probst recalled. The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze.
He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away.
The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart.
He still can't remember the sound of the explosion . . .
"It was pretty horrible," he said of the noiseless images he carries inside him, of the jet vanishing in a cloud of smoke and dust, and bits of metal and concrete drifting down like confetti.
On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away.

EVEY: Actually, there's considerable evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. It's just not very visible. When you get up close -- actually, one of my people happened to be walking on this sidewalk and was right about here as the aircraft approached. It came in. It clipped a couple of light poles on the way in. He happened to hear this terrible noise behind him, looked back, and he actually -- he's a Vietnam veteran -- jumped prone onto the ground so the aircraft would not actually -- he thinks it (would have) hit him; it was that low.
On its way in, the wing clipped. Our guess is an engine clipped a generator. We had an emergency temporary generator to provide life-safety emergency electrical power, should the power go off in the building. The wing actually clipped that generator, and portions of it broke off. There are other parts of the plane that are scattered about outside the building. None of those parts are very large, however. You don't see big pieces of the airplane sitting there extending up into the air. But there are many small pieces. And the few larger pieces there look like they are veins out of the aircraft engine. They're circular.

Former ammunition plant official . . . Col. Bruce Elliott . . . watched . . . as a hijacked 757 airliner crashed into the nerve center of the U.S. military command.
Elliott, . . . said he had just left the Pentagon and was about to board a shuttle van in a south parking lot when he saw the plane approach and slam into the west side of the structure.
"I looked to my left and saw the plane coming in. . . .
"It was like a kamikaze pilot." . . .
He said the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit before it crashed into the building and burst into flames. . . .
Elliott said the rubble was still smoldering Wednesday morning.

Father Stephen McGraw . . . mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon.
"The traffic was very slow moving . . . I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon.
"The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car.
"I saw it crash into the building . . . it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. . . .
"There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows."

Witnesses all over the place..........

 

[Fizz]

One aspect of 77 is it was hijacked precisely in one of the Primary radar deadzones.

bullshit. prove it.

That is one hell of a coincidence. By the OCT the attack had been meticulously planned yet they risked utter failure by taking 77 so far west. In taking off from Dulles they could have hit the Pentagon even before the first tower was struck. They were flying into the most guarded airspace in the world with a huge fucking neon sign.

bullshit. prove it.

 

[eots]

conflicting testimony can be posted all day..the point is there has been no real investigation no testimony under oath..no cross examination ..no full disclosure of evidence and evidenced disposed of illegally

 

[SFC Ollie]

conflicting testimony can be posted all day..the point is there has been no real investigation no testimony under oath..no cross examination ..no full disclosure of evidence and evidenced disposed of illegally

Why oh why must we teach you guys over and over?

Director Tenet, Deputy Director McLaughlin, I would like to ask you to raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

TENET: I do.

MCLAUGHLIN: I do.

KEAN: Thank you very much. Your written remarks, I guess you'll simply summarize those in 10 minutes or so and so we can get into questions.

Transcript: Wednesday's 9/11 Commission Hearings (washingtonpost.com)

Looks like testimony under oath to me.