So, let's go ahead and go back to the '1967' borders and end the 'occupation'

[Boston1]

The most rudimentary fact is that before the European invasion starting in the mid 18oos, 99% of the people in Palestine were either Christian or Muslim. The Zionists were European colonists, they described themselves as such.

A rudimentary fact sidestepped by those with little knowledge of history is that the geographic area called "Palestine" was the subject of an earlier invasion by Moslem hordes which was a part of the Ottoman Empire built upon dead bodies as a result of Islamist war, rapine and colonization.

Appreciate the info however your specific accusation was that in the 1850s palestine was 99% Arab. But you forgot to mention that in the earlier part of that century were countless pogroms to drive out or kill the Judaic population.

Its kinda important if you are going to insinuate that the Judaic people had abandoned the area to mention that they were actually victims of vicious pogroms designed specifically to reduce or eliminate them completely from this area for the previous 30 or 40 years.

 

[Boston1]

The most rudimentary fact is that before the European invasion starting in the mid 18oos, 99% of the people in Palestine were either Christian or Muslim. The Zionists were European colonists, they described themselves as such.

A rudimentary fact sidestepped by those with little knowledge of history is that the geographic area called "Palestine" was the subject of an earlier invasion by Moslem hordes which was a part of the Ottoman Empire built upon dead bodies as a result of Islamist war, rapine and colonization.

Appreciate the info however your specific accusation was that in the 1850s palestine was 99% Arab. But you forgot to mention that in the earlier part of that century were countless pogroms to drive out or kill the Judaic population.

Its kinda important if you are going to insinuate that the Judaic people had abandoned the area to mention that they were actually victims of vicious pogroms designed specifically to reduce or eliminate them completely from this area for the previous 30 or 40 years.

A revisionist view made up of half truths in no more acceptable than on made up of purely lies

 

[Billo_Really]

Many people when faced with overwhelming evidence contrary to their preferred beliefs will lash out in attempt to maintain what have now become demonstrably false beliefs. Its called cognitive dissonance.

Unfortunately it would appear that you are one of those people. If you would like to discuss the issues civilly and peacefully that would be fine. But I will not engage in some childish war of insults, profanity and petty accusations.

There is nothing more profane than you blaming the Pals for 100% of the problem. You never say what Israel has done wrong. It's always "THEM".

 

[montelatici]

The most rudimentary fact is that before the European invasion starting in the mid 18oos, 99% of the people in Palestine were either Christian or Muslim. The Zionists were European colonists, they described themselves as such.

A rudimentary fact sidestepped by those with little knowledge of history is that the geographic area called "Palestine" was the subject of an earlier invasion by Moslem hordes which was a part of the Ottoman Empire built upon dead bodies as a result of Islamist war, rapine and colonization.

Appreciate the info however your specific accusation was that in the 1850s palestine was 99% Arab. But you forgot to mention that in the earlier part of that century were countless pogroms to drive out or kill the Judaic population.

Its kinda important if you are going to insinuate that the Judaic people had abandoned the area to mention that they were actually victims of vicious pogroms designed specifically to reduce or eliminate them completely from this area for the previous 30 or 40 years.

The Muslim "hordes" brought a few Jews to Palestine, which had been either a Pagan or Christian land (no Jews) for several centuries as the inhabitants had converted to the State religions of Rome. The presence of any Jews in Palestine was thanks to the Muslims.

What pogroms prior to 1850?

 

[Billo_Really]

WOW

Again you might want to discuss this issue you seem to have with peacefully discussing this conflict with others with a qualified therapist. Mention cognitive dissonance and you might save some time.

you are clearly lashing out against overwhelming evidence contrary to your preferred view. A view that is obviously indefensible in the face of factual evidence.

Dude, shove that condescending attitude up your ass!

Factual evidence is that land was seized in a war. Factual evidence is it is against the law to hold onto land seized in a war. Factual evidence is there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Add them all up and the evidence is overwhelming..........against you!

 

[Boston1]

Many people when faced with overwhelming evidence contrary to their preferred beliefs will lash out in attempt to maintain what have now become demonstrably false beliefs. Its called cognitive dissonance.

Unfortunately it would appear that you are one of those people. If you would like to discuss the issues civilly and peacefully that would be fine. But I will not engage in some childish war of insults, profanity and petty accusations.

There is nothing more profane than you blaming the Pals for 100% of the problem. You never say what Israel has done wrong. It's always "THEM".

Actually you are so busy with the revisionist diatribe I have had a chance to do much but try and set the record straight.

But feel free to start a thread on the subject.

 

[Boston1]

The most rudimentary fact is that before the European invasion starting in the mid 18oos, 99% of the people in Palestine were either Christian or Muslim. The Zionists were European colonists, they described themselves as such.

A rudimentary fact sidestepped by those with little knowledge of history is that the geographic area called "Palestine" was the subject of an earlier invasion by Moslem hordes which was a part of the Ottoman Empire built upon dead bodies as a result of Islamist war, rapine and colonization.

Appreciate the info however your specific accusation was that in the 1850s palestine was 99% Arab. But you forgot to mention that in the earlier part of that century were countless pogroms to drive out or kill the Judaic population.

Its kinda important if you are going to insinuate that the Judaic people had abandoned the area to mention that they were actually victims of vicious pogroms designed specifically to reduce or eliminate them completely from this area for the previous 30 or 40 years.

The Muslim "hordes" brought a few Jews to Palestine, which had been either a Pagan or Christian land (no Jews) for several centuries as the inhabitants had converted to the State religions of Rome. The presence of any Jews in Palestine was thanks to the Muslims.

What pogroms prior to 1850?

Your question was answered in another thread. Lets end the cross posting

 

[Boston1]

WOW

Again you might want to discuss this issue you seem to have with peacefully discussing this conflict with others with a qualified therapist. Mention cognitive dissonance and you might save some time.

you are clearly lashing out against overwhelming evidence contrary to your preferred view. A view that is obviously indefensible in the face of factual evidence.

Dude, shove that condescending attitude up your ass!

Factual evidence is that land was seized in a war. Factual evidence is it is against the law to hold onto land seized in a war. Factual evidence is there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Add them all up and the evidence is overwhelming..........against you!

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

 

[Billo_Really]

I can't help but notice that you offer not one single reference to back your nonsense.

Have you a single point within established literature that supports your view ?

I have provided multiple references to support my position in this, its kinda hard not to notice that you on the other hand have provided nothing except a litany of profanity and false accusations.

If you insist on discussing what you prefer to refer to as an occupation, then I believe the definition of occupation and the reality of Israel's administration of the disputed territories is on the table. Particularly when that subject undermines the false premise of the thread title.

I provided citations in posts 304 and 227; you wouldn't even address them.

 

[Billo_Really]

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

I'm not addressing anymore of your points until you start addressing mine.

 

[Boston1]

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

I'm not addressing anymore of your points until you start addressing mine.

Seems indicative of a certain maturity level I've come to expect from the revisionist writers.

Seems to me I've done nothing but address other peoples posts around here, if I missed a few, oops.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I doubt that you could find anyone that (so-called: "evicted") 1946 through 1949. If you were one day old in 1949, you would have to be at least 66 years old. Even today, the life expectancy for an Arab Palestinians, (assuming he or she is not a terrorist or jihadist) is 65 to 71 years of age. But for someone born in 1948 or earlier, the number was much less. So, an optimistic estimate for the number of those that might be still living that were evicted is 60K people (true refugees).

Age structure for West Bank:

0–14 years: 33.7% (male 472,476/female 448,078)
15–24 years: 21.7% (male 303,578/female 289,119)
25–54 years: 36.4% (male 511,443/female 483,276)
55–64 years: 3.8% (male 59,762/female 59,372)
65 years and over: 3.8% (male 43,629/female 60,315) (2014 est.)
​

Age structure for Gaza Strip:

0–14 years: 44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15–64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008

Linking propaganda pieces doesn't make the European colonization of Palestine any less a European colonial project in which the native people are evicted by people from another continent. I don't understand how anyone would expect that a native people would passively accept colonization without resisting the colonizers. It is a case of cognizant dissonance not recognizing the invasion of Palestine by Europeans for what it was.

(COMMENT)

Virtually NONE of the modern day leader of HAMAS (Khaled Mashal) was born May 28, 1956 (Age 60) · Ramallah, Palestinian Territory, Occupied. He was never evicted during the War of Independence.

Of the the Palestinian Shuhada (Martyrs) of Occupation -- killed between 12 July and 21 August, as listed on the Official HAMAS Site, only 13 people (or 0.8%09less than 1%), of the "1596 names have been confirmed – the actual death is at least at 2137" (actual deaths claimed) were actually old enough to have been part of this "eviction for which you speak.

Hasan Hussein Younis, 75, Rafah | Killed during Israel’s massacre on Gaza | Aug 21, 2014
Mariam Khalil Ruba, 70, Jabalia | 29 Jul 2014
Soheila al-‘Ejel, 70, Gaza City. | 29 Jul 2014
Turkeyya Dheir, 80, Rafah. | 29 Jul 2014
Hussein Hasan Abu an-Naja, 65, Khan Younis. | 29 Jul 2014
Salim Salaam Abu ath-Thoum, 87, Rafah. | 26 Jul 2014
Hasan Abu Hayyin, 70, Shujaeyya, Gaza. | 23 Jul 2014
Fatima Hasan Azzam, 70, Gaza. | 22 Jul 2014
Hakima Nafe’ Abu ‘Adwan, 75, Rafah. | 22 Jul 2014
Najah Nafe’ Abu ‘Adwan, 85 Rafah. | 22 Jul 2014
Mohammad Abdul-Rahman Hassouna, 67, Rafah. | 17 Jul 2014
Zeinab Mohammad Sa’id al-‘Abadla, 71, Khan Younis. | 17 Jul 2014
Sobhi Abdul-hamid Mousa, 77, Khan Younis. | 15 Jul 2014
​

The point here is that the constant whining about "eviction" comes from a very vocal, but non-member, of the actual refugee group (the 700,000 claimed). The 99% of the Palestinians killed during that period of the conflict were not even valid claimants.

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm not sure which particular points you really want to address.

I can't help but notice that you offer not one single reference to back your nonsense.

Have you a single point within established literature that supports your view ?

I have provided multiple references to support my position in this, its kinda hard not to notice that you on the other hand have provided nothing except a litany of profanity and false accusations.

If you insist on discussing what you prefer to refer to as an occupation, then I believe the definition of occupation and the reality of Israel's administration of the disputed territories is on the table. Particularly when that subject undermines the false premise of the thread title.

I provided citations in posts 304 and 227; you wouldn't even address them.

(COMMENT)

I thought you might want to look at it from a different perspective.

UN Passed 20 Resolutions Against Israel in 2014, Only
4 Against Other Nations
www.jspacenews.com › Blog
UN Passed 20 Resolutions Against Israel in 2014, ... The year in review reveals some disturbing facts out of the United Nations. In 2014, ... Take Action Now. ...
​

Now in addition to this, the whiners of Turkey and the Persistent Palestinian Whiners have attempted to have the to re-open a dead case.[/indent]

An International Criminal Court (ICC) Panel of three Judges have ordered the court’s prosecutor to reconsider the decision not to investigate Israel for war crimes over the 2010 Mavi Marmara incident.
In a 2-1 ruling, the judges granted a request by the Comoros Islands to reconsider the case after the discovery of “material errors in the prosecutor’s assessment” of the matter. The Judges find the Prosecutors Office in "material error." This is an open display of the assumption and presumption of guilt. This is a blatant disregard for the customary law applicable to Naval Blockades just to inflict intentional harm on Israel to cover --- malfeasance on the part of the court.

The 2014 The Palestinians openly commit acts of War, intentionally inciting a War, so that they can then file an ICC complaint. Then, in accepting the complaint, the Palestinians try to limit the inquiry to actions taken after the kidnap and murder of three minors by pro-Palestinian Extremist. The complaint circles around:

• crime of apartheid,
• attacks against civilians,
• excessive loss of human life and
• crime of colonization.
​

I don't think there is any question as to the biased media and international legal attempt to attack the State of Israel and lend material support to organizations and government that have fired rocket into another sovereignty, that have openly applauded the attempt to assassinate a head of state, the Munich Massacre of 1972, numerous hijacking, suicide bombings, the kidnap and murder of innocents, the incitement to commit acts of violence and jihadist operations against a sovereign nations as well as other.

No, I don't think that a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization has any justification for any of its actions and should not be permitted to created another Islamic State that supports terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

A/RES/37/43
3 December 1982

Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples
to self-determination and of the speedy granting of
independence to colonial countries and peoples for the
effective guarantee and observance of human rights

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for
independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from
colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

 

[P F Tinmore]

WOW

Again you might want to discuss this issue you seem to have with peacefully discussing this conflict with others with a qualified therapist. Mention cognitive dissonance and you might save some time.

you are clearly lashing out against overwhelming evidence contrary to your preferred view. A view that is obviously indefensible in the face of factual evidence.

Dude, shove that condescending attitude up your ass!

Factual evidence is that land was seized in a war. Factual evidence is it is against the law to hold onto land seized in a war. Factual evidence is there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Add them all up and the evidence is overwhelming..........against you!

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

The Jewish National Home was not a transfer of land to Jews.

You are basing your post on false premise.

 

[Hollie]

A/RES/37/43
3 December 1982

Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples
to self-determination and of the speedy granting of
independence to colonial countries and peoples for the
effective guarantee and observance of human rights

2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for
independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from
colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means,
including armed struggle;

A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights

I was hoping you could comment on the above in connection with apartheid so common in Islamist majority nations.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm not sure which particular points you really want to address.

I can't help but notice that you offer not one single reference to back your nonsense.

Have you a single point within established literature that supports your view ?

I have provided multiple references to support my position in this, its kinda hard not to notice that you on the other hand have provided nothing except a litany of profanity and false accusations.

If you insist on discussing what you prefer to refer to as an occupation, then I believe the definition of occupation and the reality of Israel's administration of the disputed territories is on the table. Particularly when that subject undermines the false premise of the thread title.

I provided citations in posts 304 and 227; you wouldn't even address them.

(COMMENT)

View attachment 58106
I thought you might want to look at it from a different perspective.

UN Passed 20 Resolutions Against Israel in 2014, Only
4 Against Other Nations
www.jspacenews.com › Blog
UN Passed 20 Resolutions Against Israel in 2014, ... The year in review reveals some disturbing facts out of the United Nations. In 2014, ... Take Action Now. ...
​

Now in addition to this, the whiners of Turkey and the Persistent Palestinian Whiners have attempted to have the to re-open a dead case.[/indent]

An International Criminal Court (ICC) Panel of three Judges have ordered the court’s prosecutor to reconsider the decision not to investigate Israel for war crimes over the 2010 Mavi Marmara incident.
In a 2-1 ruling, the judges granted a request by the Comoros Islands to reconsider the case after the discovery of “material errors in the prosecutor’s assessment” of the matter. The Judges find the Prosecutors Office in "material error." This is an open display of the assumption and presumption of guilt. This is a blatant disregard for the customary law applicable to Naval Blockades just to inflict intentional harm on Israel to cover --- malfeasance on the part of the court.

The 2014 The Palestinians openly commit acts of War, intentionally inciting a War, so that they can then file an ICC complaint. Then, in accepting the complaint, the Palestinians try to limit the inquiry to actions taken after the kidnap and murder of three minors by pro-Palestinian Extremist. The complaint circles around:

• crime of apartheid,
• attacks against civilians,
• excessive loss of human life and
• crime of colonization.
​

I don't think there is any question as to the biased media and international legal attempt to attack the State of Israel and lend material support to organizations and government that have fired rocket into another sovereignty, that have openly applauded the attempt to assassinate a head of state, the Munich Massacre of 1972, numerous hijacking, suicide bombings, the kidnap and murder of innocents, the incitement to commit acts of violence and jihadist operations against a sovereign nations as well as other.

No, I don't think that a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization has any justification for any of its actions and should not be permitted to created another Islamic State that supports terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R

...attack the State of Israel and lend material support to organizations and government that have fired rocket into another sovereignty,...​

The Palestinians, and others, consider that to be occupied Palestinian territory.

That is an issue that must be resolved before we can start pointing fingers.

 

[Boston1]

WOW

Again you might want to discuss this issue you seem to have with peacefully discussing this conflict with others with a qualified therapist. Mention cognitive dissonance and you might save some time.

you are clearly lashing out against overwhelming evidence contrary to your preferred view. A view that is obviously indefensible in the face of factual evidence.

Dude, shove that condescending attitude up your ass!

Factual evidence is that land was seized in a war. Factual evidence is it is against the law to hold onto land seized in a war. Factual evidence is there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Add them all up and the evidence is overwhelming..........against you!

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

The Jewish National Home was not a transfer of land to Jews.

You are basing your post on false premise.

Nonsense

the entire League of Nations – unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:

“Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home.”

This is clearly an acceptance of the Judaic people creating a country within the British mandated area.

Wrong again my friend

 

[P F Tinmore]

WOW

Again you might want to discuss this issue you seem to have with peacefully discussing this conflict with others with a qualified therapist. Mention cognitive dissonance and you might save some time.

you are clearly lashing out against overwhelming evidence contrary to your preferred view. A view that is obviously indefensible in the face of factual evidence.

Dude, shove that condescending attitude up your ass!

Factual evidence is that land was seized in a war. Factual evidence is it is against the law to hold onto land seized in a war. Factual evidence is there isn't a single country on the planet that agrees with you.

Add them all up and the evidence is overwhelming..........against you!

If you would like to engage in a peaceful productive conversation thats cool but if you insist on the childish language and profanity, you're not gong to get very far/

In the mean time feel free to document exactly what makes you think Israel is legally obligated to return land that was intended for the establishment of a Jewish national homeland to a non state entity.

The Jewish National Home was not a transfer of land to Jews.

You are basing your post on false premise.

Nonsense

the entire League of Nations – unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:

“Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home.”

This is clearly an acceptance of the Judaic people creating a country within the British mandated area.

Wrong again my friend

My post is correct.

 

[montelatici]

As usual you don't know what you are talking about. The British specifically denied that there was any acceptance of creating a country for the Judaic people. As reiterated in Churchill's statement in the White Paper of 1922.

"The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions, so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine, made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on 2nd November, 1917.

Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab delegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine."

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922