So, did this Gestapo tactic protect us?

[Coyote]

Libbies want proof that millions will die from the lockdown but won’t accept the proof that millions aren’t dying from the virus.
Fear and feelings blotting out Facts. The 4 year suspension of reality is endless.

So you can't provide any proof for your claim?

 

[dudmuck]

Libbies want proof that millions will die from the lockdown but won’t accept the proof that millions aren’t dying from the virus.
Fear and feelings blotting out Facts. The 4 year suspension of reality is endless.

The death count is off because we need to test more of the dead.

 

[Coyote]

There have been over 55,000 deaths in the U.S. despite the extreme isolation and lock- downs.

How many more have to die before the Trumpbot idiots recognize how devastating this virus is?

OK but what about the millions that are going to suffer and die from the results of the lockdown???

There's no doubt that we're caught between a rock and a hard place, but opening the economy too early and having to shut it down again will be far worse - both for the economy and the fatality rate - than not opening the economy until the experts say it's O.K.

no ones saying to open it all at once,,,

and starvation is a hell of a way to die,,,

Perhaps you've forgotten about the American welfare system: food stamps, unemployment, food banks. We've always had poor people. When was the last time you heard of any American actually starving to death because they had no money?

Here is the into paragraph from Wikipedia's article "Hunger in the United States of America

Hunger in the United States of America affects millions of Americans,[1] including some who are middle class,[2] or who are in households where all adults are in work.[2]

In 2019, over 12.5 million children, and 40% of US undergraduate students experienced food insecurity.[3][4]

The United States produces far more food than it needs for domestic consumption—hunger within the U.S. is caused by some Americans having insufficient money to buy food for themselves or their families. Additional causes of hunger and food insecurity include neighborhood deprivation and agricultural policy.[5][6] Hunger is addressed by a mix of public and private food aid provision. Public interventions include changes to agricultural policy, the construction of supermarkets in underserved neighborhoods, investment in transportation infrastructure, and the development of community gardens.[7][8][9][10] Private aid is provided by food pantries, soup kitchens, food banks, and food rescue organizations.[1][11][12]

In the later half of the twentieth century, other advanced economies in Europe and Asia began to overtake the U.S. in terms of reducing hunger among their own populations. In 2011, a report presented in the New York Times found that among 20 economies recognized as advanced by the International Monetary Fund and for which comparative rankings for food security were available, the U.S. was joint worst.[13] Nonetheless, in March 2013, the Global Food Security Index commissioned by DuPont, ranked the U.S. number one for food affordability and overall food security.[14]

Funny thing is - we've always had poor people and up to now the right complained about them being "parasites", cutting welfare, drug tests for recipients etc.

 

[progressive hunter]

And we have a President who has supported them, just yesterday calling this a "horrible plague".

Looks like a huge conspiracy to me.

Not a conspiracy just a huge **** you to the American people based on fear and the fact that this shit has ZERO impact on politicians. Take away their pay/job and give them a few bucks to survive off of for a couple months. We'd see a different tune then.

I read a recent article by a couple of doctors (maybe I can find it) but the basic thing was they said that the initial lockdown was absolutely the right thing to do because we did not know what we are dealing with. Now, as time goes on, and we have more cases, more data - we can and should start reopening. That makes sense to me.

THANK YOU!!

thats what we've been saying,,,but the leftist turds keep hammering us for it and saying we need to stay locked down,,

I think most of the left are actually saying kind of what I think you, Trump, and most of the governors, and others are saying - we reopen with a set of guidelines to meet, and different areas reopen at different times depending on the conditions they meet. No one size fits all.

correct,,,but remember we are a free country and they cant force us to stay closed if we dont want to,,,which is the whole point of the thread,,,

Yes, they can. This isn't the first quarantine our country has had...

Kelowna, B.C., Des Moines Iowa, Mobile Alabama, were among the cities that ordered shut downs of business', closure of public places and events, restaurants, schools, and banning public gatherings during the 1918 Spanish Flu.

just because they got away with it doesnt make it right,,,not to mention if some decide to file a law suit and fight it,,,

It has nothing to do with "getting away" with anything. Public health can and has temporarily trumped individual rights, as it should.

only in a fascist state,,,

Well then, we are all "fascist states" I suppose. I think you will find few places that will guarantee your right to infect other people.

who said I was going to infect other people???

 

[Coyote]

Libbies want proof that millions will die from the lockdown but won’t accept the proof that millions aren’t dying from the virus.
Fear and feelings blotting out Facts. The 4 year suspension of reality is endless.

The death count is off because we need to test more of the dead.

That is true, just like there more cases than we are aware of, there are likely more deaths due to covid then we are aware of as well.

Antibody tests support what’s been obvious: Covid-19 is much more lethal than the flu

Results from coronavirus antibody tests have started to trickle in, and they bolster the consensus among disease experts that the virus is significantly more lethal than seasonal flu and has seeded the most disruptive pandemic in the past century.
“I think it is the worst pandemic since 1918,” said Cecile Viboud, an epidemiologist at the National Institutes of Health’s Fogarty International Center, alluding to the “Great Influenza” pandemic that claimed an estimated 675,000 lives in the United States.
The new serological data, which is provisional, suggests that coronavirus infections greatly outnumber confirmed covid-19 cases, potentially by a factor of 10 or more. Many people experience mild symptoms or none at all, and never get the standard diagnostic test with a swab up the nose, so they’re missed in the official covid-19 case counts.

Higher infection rates mean lower lethality risk on average. But the corollary is that this is a very contagious disease capable of being spread by people who are asymptomatic — a challenge for communities hoping to end their shutdowns.
The crude case fatality rates, covering people who have a covid-19 diagnosis, have been about 6 percent globally as well as in the United States. But when all the serological data is compiled and analyzed, the fatality rate among people who have been infected could be less than 1 percent.

But as infectious disease experts point out, even a seemingly low rate can translate into a shockingly large death toll if the virus spreads through a major portion of the population.

New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo (D) said Monday that the latest antibody numbers in New York City indicate that 25 percent of the population of 8.8 million has already been infected. The city has recorded more than 12,000 confirmed covid-19 deaths, and lists another 5,000 as probable deaths. That is an infection fatality rate between 0.5 and 0.8 percent, depending on which death toll is factored in. (A spike in all-cause deaths in recent weeks also suggests that some coronavirus-related deaths have not been captured by mortality statistics.)

“The death rate is much, much lower,” Cuomo said Monday, referring to the serology tests. He said the New York state rate appears to be 0.5 percent — which is one death per 200 infections.

That figure is still sobering to infectious disease experts. A rate of 0.5 percent “is way more than a usual flu season and I would think way more than the ’57 or 1968 [influenza] pandemic death toll, too,” Viboud said.

This is a novel, highly infectious virus, and so everyone who hasn’t had an infection is presumably susceptible. It is unclear whether and for how long a person who recovers from covid-19 will have immunity. Research shows that, in a completely vulnerable population that takes no precautions, each infected person will infect well more than two others on average, and some estimates put that reproduction number over three.

Epidemiologists have said somewhere between 40 to 70 percent of the population will likely become infected in the next couple of years if there is no vaccine and the public does not take aggressive measures to limit the spread of the virus.
“Do the math!” said Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist who has been studying the coronavirus since early in the outbreak.

This is obviously a highly politicized pandemic, and some critics of the nationwide shutdown have seized on this early antibody data to argue that covid-19 isn’t all that deadly. A common refrain is that the disease is not significantly worse than the flu. In this view, the pandemic threat has been wildly exaggerated.

Kevin McCullough, a columnist for the conservative website Town Hall, wrote a column that ran last week with the headline “Antibody Testing: Proves We’ve Been Had!”

“Nearly everything we’ve been told about models, rates of infection, deaths, and recoveries was inaccurate,” he wrote. “The death rate in New York State isn’t 7.4%, it is actually .75%.”

But the two numbers describe different things: The first is a case fatality rate, reflecting deaths among people with confirmed diagnoses of covid-19. The second is the infection fatality rate, extrapolated from the antibody surveys. In other words, both numbers can be correct, and useful.

“Those higher numbers of case fatality rates, they’re still true,” Viboud said. “It’s your probability of dying if you’re clinically sick with it, which is something that people may care about, too.”

Moreover, the fatality rate of a virus, however it is defined, is not an innate feature of the pathogen. It depends on many variables, including the age and health of the population and access to health care. Timing matters, too: In China the fatality rate was high during the initial phase of the outbreak, when hospitals were overwhelmed and doctors struggled to cope with the crisis.

There are so many numbers flying around that it is understandable that people may struggle to make sense of them. That’s become even more difficult in recent days due to serological studies that haven’t been peer-reviewed but have been presented to the public, typically with dramatic public health conclusions attached.

The most controversial such study came out of Santa Clara County, Calif., the heart of Silicon Valley. It claimed that the true number of infections in the county in early

April may have been 50 to 85 times the official coronavirus case counts. Extrapolating from that, it gave an estimated infection fatality rate of between 0.12 and 0.2 percent.

That provided what seemed like reliable ammunition to those who believe the danger of covid-19 has been overstated. They said the numbers show this disease is not much different from seasonal flu.

A commonly cited statistic about seasonal flu is that it has a fatality rate of 0.1 percent, That, however, is a case fatality rate. The infection fatality rate for flu is perhaps only half that, Viboud said. Shaman estimated that it’s about one-quarter the case fatality rate.

Thus, even if the Santa Clara numbers are roughly accurate about the spread of the virus and its lethality, it would still be deadlier than the flu.

 

[Coyote]

And we have a President who has supported them, just yesterday calling this a "horrible plague".

Looks like a huge conspiracy to me.

Not a conspiracy just a huge **** you to the American people based on fear and the fact that this shit has ZERO impact on politicians. Take away their pay/job and give them a few bucks to survive off of for a couple months. We'd see a different tune then.

I read a recent article by a couple of doctors (maybe I can find it) but the basic thing was they said that the initial lockdown was absolutely the right thing to do because we did not know what we are dealing with. Now, as time goes on, and we have more cases, more data - we can and should start reopening. That makes sense to me.

THANK YOU!!

thats what we've been saying,,,but the leftist turds keep hammering us for it and saying we need to stay locked down,,

I think most of the left are actually saying kind of what I think you, Trump, and most of the governors, and others are saying - we reopen with a set of guidelines to meet, and different areas reopen at different times depending on the conditions they meet. No one size fits all.

correct,,,but remember we are a free country and they cant force us to stay closed if we dont want to,,,which is the whole point of the thread,,,

Yes, they can. This isn't the first quarantine our country has had...

Kelowna, B.C., Des Moines Iowa, Mobile Alabama, were among the cities that ordered shut downs of business', closure of public places and events, restaurants, schools, and banning public gatherings during the 1918 Spanish Flu.

just because they got away with it doesnt make it right,,,not to mention if some decide to file a law suit and fight it,,,

It has nothing to do with "getting away" with anything. Public health can and has temporarily trumped individual rights, as it should.

only in a fascist state,,,

Well then, we are all "fascist states" I suppose. I think you will find few places that will guarantee your right to infect other people.

who said I was going to infect other people???

If you don't know you have it, who says you won't?

 

[progressive hunter]

And we have a President who has supported them, just yesterday calling this a "horrible plague".

Looks like a huge conspiracy to me.

Not a conspiracy just a huge **** you to the American people based on fear and the fact that this shit has ZERO impact on politicians. Take away their pay/job and give them a few bucks to survive off of for a couple months. We'd see a different tune then.

I read a recent article by a couple of doctors (maybe I can find it) but the basic thing was they said that the initial lockdown was absolutely the right thing to do because we did not know what we are dealing with. Now, as time goes on, and we have more cases, more data - we can and should start reopening. That makes sense to me.

THANK YOU!!

thats what we've been saying,,,but the leftist turds keep hammering us for it and saying we need to stay locked down,,

I think most of the left are actually saying kind of what I think you, Trump, and most of the governors, and others are saying - we reopen with a set of guidelines to meet, and different areas reopen at different times depending on the conditions they meet. No one size fits all.

correct,,,but remember we are a free country and they cant force us to stay closed if we dont want to,,,which is the whole point of the thread,,,

Yes, they can. This isn't the first quarantine our country has had...

Kelowna, B.C., Des Moines Iowa, Mobile Alabama, were among the cities that ordered shut downs of business', closure of public places and events, restaurants, schools, and banning public gatherings during the 1918 Spanish Flu.

just because they got away with it doesnt make it right,,,not to mention if some decide to file a law suit and fight it,,,

It has nothing to do with "getting away" with anything. Public health can and has temporarily trumped individual rights, as it should.

only in a fascist state,,,

Well then, we are all "fascist states" I suppose. I think you will find few places that will guarantee your right to infect other people.

who said I was going to infect other people???

If you don't know you have it, who says you won't?

who says I will???