So athiests..........

[peach174]

......How do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you buy gifts? Do you refuse to accept gifts? Do you tie one on? What?

Since gift giving for the winter solstice has been around way before Christianity I would ask you Jesus freaks how come you had to co opt the ancient winter celebration with your beliefs?

You can't be 100% certain when JC was born anyway so why don't you all be a little more original and pick another day?

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

 

[Skull Pilot]

......How do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you buy gifts? Do you refuse to accept gifts? Do you tie one on? What?

Since gift giving for the winter solstice has been around way before Christianity I would ask you Jesus freaks how come you had to co opt the ancient winter celebration with your beliefs?

You can't be 100% certain when JC was born anyway so why don't you all be a little more original and pick another day?

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

 

[amrchaos]

As board squad leader of W.A.C.(War against Christmas) I write character assination posts about Santa Claus, leave bags of charcoal in front of day care centers and try to force Christians into saying "Happy Holidays" instead of that pro-evangelical term "Merry Christmas"

If anyone gives me a gift, I return it for the money
If anyone sends me a Christmas card, I burn it.

What about the family--haven't talked to them in months so I am feeling pretty good that I don't have to sit and listen to their phony beliefs about God and Christ while I point out evidence from the past that they don't really believe a word they say, they just want me to believe!

No need for "miracles", as I always say...

 

[peach174]

Since gift giving for the winter solstice has been around way before Christianity I would ask you Jesus freaks how come you had to co opt the ancient winter celebration with your beliefs?

You can't be 100% certain when JC was born anyway so why don't you all be a little more original and pick another day?

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.

 

[catzmeow]

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.

In many cases, local deities were also co-opted as "Saints." Brigid is a good example of this.

 

[Sallow]

Actually, that's fascism on display.

That's an atheist/liberal thing.

Naw.

Reichskonkordat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...

- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

That man almost became a Priest.

Heck..didn't the Crusaders roast up some Greek Orthodox babies when they hit Constantinople?

Fun bunch.

How many "monsters" use the 'church' to gain access to victims (in every religion)? Hitler did not 'practice' Christianity. He used Christianity to manipulate the ignorant (Biblically).

Sure he did.

Or did you forget all the lovely Christian history..like the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition.

 

[peach174]

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that Christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the Christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that Christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.

I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

 

[rdean]

......How do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you buy gifts? Do you refuse to accept gifts? Do you tie one on? What?

Many American celebrations started with "mystical beginnings". Like Halloween.

 

[catzmeow]

[I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

Your religion is no different from any other, all of which claim to explain the creation, etc. I hope it makes you happy, but this dismissal of other people's beliefs isn't very productive. Or, for that matter, rational.

Look at it this way. You don't believe in a long list of gods/goddesses. I disbelieve in that same list, but include YHWH on it. We are not so different.

 

[peach174]

......How do you celebrate Christmas?

Do you buy gifts? Do you refuse to accept gifts? Do you tie one on? What?

Since gift giving for the winter solstice has been around way before Christianity I would ask you Jesus freaks how come you had to co opt the ancient winter celebration with your beliefs?

You can't be 100% certain when JC was born anyway so why don't you all be a little more original and pick another day?

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

I wouldn't call what I said a dismissal. Catz

 

[catzmeow]

I wouldn't call what I said a dismissal. Catz

When you say that your beliefs are in the creator, and everyone else is worshipping the creation, you're being pretty dismissive (and non-rational). Bear in mind...most faiths believe that their deity(s) is/are the creator(s).

Just because I don't believe in your god doesn't mean that I worship trees and rocks. I know you were trying to be clever, but really, it wasn't.

 

[peach174]

I have stated many times in different posts that Christmas is inclusive for all on this holiday.
It is a Federal Holiday for those who celebrate,Hanukkah, the birth of Jesus,Kwanzaa,winter solstice and atheists as well as anyway you want to.
Christianity is about believing in one God and so does Jews and Muslims.

 

[Coyote]

Someone on another board I post on asked a similar question so, I'll give the same answer

I am not a Christian, but I enjoy Christmas because it is not solely a Christian religious holiday but it is a very meaningful one.

It is a cultural holiday much more than it is a religious holiday, in this country.

It's a layered holiday...layered with Christianity's birth of the Son and our pagan forfather's return of the Sun.

It's a time when we remember what it is to be Human, full of hope and love for one another and a time when we hope those feelings will last through to the next year.

It is a time of forgiveness and to remember our blessings. It is a time that pushes us to be our best selves.

It is a time to celebrate Light (Duvali with it's myriad flames and lamps) and the natural cycles of darkness and cold and warmth and light that we are mostly removed from in modern light.

It is the darkest time of the year and the Raven (or Coyote) brings us the Sun (or fire) depending on the legend and the Son of God is born and all animals speak, and mankind is saved.

All of which are celebrated around mid-Winter.

There are a lot of ways to celebrate Christmas and they are as old as our species.

I love Christmas...but I do not love the commercialism and hype

 

[Coyote]

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that Christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the Christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that Christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.

I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

Catholics ARE Christians. Aside from that - if you're going to smear them for all the evils done in the name of religion, open your eyes and look at what the Protestants did in Europe to the Catholics and in America to the native peoples.

 

[peach174]

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that Christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the Christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that Christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.


I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

Catholics ARE Christians. Aside from that - if you're going to smear them for all the evils done in the name of religion, open your eyes and look at what the Protestants did in Europe to the Catholics and in America to the native peoples.

Where did I say that Catholics are not Chrisians?
I'm not smearing them I am starting facts .
Catholics use to force people into Christianity.
Protestants fought for freedom to worship the way they wanted to, from Catholics.

Catholics and Protestants related very differently to American Indians, as they initially encountered them. The Catholic way was coercion, of course, but, the Protestant way reflected the inevitable social manifestations of independence and freedom.

Columbus certainly viewed the South American Indians he encountered as at least potential subjects of the Spanish Crown and Catholic Church. The Protestants, however, viewed the Indians as independent people with whom agreements, pacts, and treaties were to be established. Both Catholic and Protestant had in mind the conversion of the Indians to Christianity, certainly. But, that was not part of the motive or reason the Protestants came to America. Furthermore, the Catholics saw the “natives” as a cheap (or, free) labor source. The protestants had no such servile disposition. The Protestants saw potentially independent Christians in the Indians, just as the “pilgrim” Protestants saw in themselves.

 

[koshergrl]

Oooh..Protestants have killed Catholics as well, though. There was back and forthing in England and other countries for quite some time.

 

[hortysir]

[I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

Your religion is no different from any other, all of which claim to explain the creation, etc. I hope it makes you happy, but this dismissal of other people's beliefs isn't very productive. Or, for that matter, rational.

Look at it this way. You don't believe in a long list of gods/goddesses. I disbelieve in that same list, but include YHWH on it. We are not so different.

Pot, meet Kettle

 

[catzmeow]

Pot, meet Kettle

Feel free to explain. If, that is, you can.