Snowden vs. Manning.

[Lakhota]

Neither are you, yet you don't seem to have a problem making it.

So, you consider my "opinion" equal to Snowden's vigilante "act" of endangering national security?

You are the one throwing judgement around, not me. How does it feel to be a hypocrite?

Feels fine, because my "judgement" won't decide his fate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope, it's true. It was during Vietnam, so it's been a while. If I remember correctly, it was a Top Secret Crypto SIOP II. At least that's how I remember it.

What was special about that?

Probably nothing to a "man" like you.

Unless you went through an extensive background check your clearance wasn't special. Top secret clearances are pretty routine in the military, anyone who actually had one would know that. I actually got mine so I could go to school, and had to actually stamp it on my notebooks.

 

[Lakhota]

What was special about that?

Probably nothing to a "man" like you.

Unless you went through an extensive background check your clearance wasn't special. Top secret clearances are pretty routine in the military, anyone who actually had one would know that. I actually got mine so I could go to school, and had to actually stamp it on my notebooks.

See, I knew it wouldn't be special to a "man" like you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Probably nothing to a "man" like you.

Unless you went through an extensive background check your clearance wasn't special. Top secret clearances are pretty routine in the military, anyone who actually had one would know that. I actually got mine so I could go to school, and had to actually stamp it on my notebooks.

See, I knew it wouldn't be special to a "man" like you.

I was 18 when I got the clearance, it had nothing to do with being a man. It isn't like I am claiming I was a SEAL.

Or an Indian who fought in Vietnam yet thinks the government is trustworthy.

 

[Politico]

The difference is one is probably full of crap. And he got out of town.

 

[Sallow]

Both betrayed the trust of the government while working in some very sensitive areas.

Don't you have to pray to Obama, five times a day?

I don't pray.

That's what superstitious people do.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Both betrayed the trust of the government while working in some very sensitive areas.

Don't you have to pray to Obama, five times a day?

I don't pray.

That's what superstitious people do.

I don't listen to bullshit.

That's what liberal people do.

 

[Sallow]

So, if one breaks "the law" (as defined by his non-disclosure agreement with his employer) to expose the FACT that the government is breaking "the law" (as defined by the US Constitution and precedent setting judicial decisions) he should be fried while the government continues to trample citizen's rights?

Methinks you just hate the exposure of treasonous fraud within the Obama administration.

Manning leaked all sorts of stuff about the Bush administration.

I said the exact same thing about him.

That he ought to be tried and punished.

My point is that you seem to condone the admin's breaking of the law and condemn Snowden for exposing it.

What law did the administration break?

This is the part where you folks get tripped up.

It was your party and your ideology that made this possible.

The Bush administration was doing the exact same thing.

Here's the organization, folks like you, were blaming for 9/11:

ACLU Strongly Refutes Cheney's Comments Alleging No Abuses Under the Patriot Act | American Civil Liberties Union

It's "eerie" how much you folks are just now, agreeing with them.

 

[Sallow]

Don't you have to pray to Obama, five times a day?

I don't pray.

That's what superstitious people do.

I don't listen to bullshit.

That's what liberal people do.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I]Falwell and Robertson on The 700 Club after 9/11 - YouTube[/ame]

Sure you do.

Especially when it comes from people who pray.

 

[midcan5]

While this may seem off topic (even wacky) the cultural implications of these actions are fascinating. In neither case was there a pressing need to reveal this information. They were not in the nature of the Pentagon Papers. Both present the modern American child, self centered and narcissistic, who know better than everyone else and feels no real moral concern. The libertarian hint above is telling. Am I off base? Listening to kids today, I don't know. There is no sense in serving more than the self?

As far as the conservative response that is simply political theater. Had this been addressed at President Romney the result would have been similar to wikileaks.

 

[Ravi]

IMO they are both skanks. I liked this bit in an op-ed about Snowden:

But Edward Snowden is only going to change his own life for the worse with a prison sentence — and, if America is lucky, his breach will bring reforms that deny top-secret clearances to people with astonishingly limited qualifications and emotional maturity.

So righteous, so wrong* - NY Daily News

 

[Ravi]

While this may seem off topic (even wacky) the cultural implications of these actions are fascinating. In neither case was there a pressing need to reveal this information. They were not in the nature of the Pentagon Papers. Both present the modern American child, self centered and narcissistic, who know better than everyone else and feels no real moral concern. The libertarian hint above is telling. Am I off base? Listening to kids today, I don't know. There is no sense in serving more than the self?

As far as the conservative response that is simply political theater. Had this been addressed at President Romney the result would have been similar to wikileaks.

Spot on.

 

[Sallow]

While this may seem off topic (even wacky) the cultural implications of these actions are fascinating. In neither case was there a pressing need to reveal this information. They were not in the nature of the Pentagon Papers. Both present the modern American child, self centered and narcissistic, who know better than everyone else and feels no real moral concern. The libertarian hint above is telling. Am I off base? Listening to kids today, I don't know. There is no sense in serving more than the self?

As far as the conservative response that is simply political theater. Had this been addressed at President Romney the result would have been similar to wikileaks.

Absolutely.

Hence this thread.

 

[mudwhistle]

Both Manning and Snowden are heroes.

Both prove the strength of spirit that made America first among the great nations is not dead, contrary to what people of normal intelligence and emotional development have been thinking about US government since the late 1960s.

They are both criminals that violated the public trust given them in their positions. The signed agreements not to disclose classified information and they broke that agreement, which is a crime.

Obama breaks agreements every day.

Arrest him.

 

[mudwhistle]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

 

[JoeB131]

I consider neither Snowden or Manning to be a hero.

I don't either...we don't know much about Snowden other than his own side of the story.

He has done a service, however, by confirming the government abuse of our privacy.

And Manning did a service by pointing out the military has been less than honest about what they were doing in Iraq.

I don't see either as a big deal.

 

[JoeB131]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

As opposed to a lying snake in the grass like Bush?

Hey, remember when Dubya commuted Scooter Libby's sentence before Scoot's memory got better after spending time in prison?

Or when his Daddy pardoned Cap Weinberger before he went to trial.

Now THOSE are abuses.

Again, I think you need that 12 step Obama Derangement Syndrome Treatment.

 

[mudwhistle]

You know, Obama can classify anything he wants. He can say his campaign tactics are state secrets because of national security. He can claim any conversations between himself and his staff are privileged information.

This is the problem with our laws. The office of POTUS wasn't designed for a lying snake in the grass like Obama. We need to re-write all of the powers, and checks and balances over the office of President just to keep scumbags like Obama abusing their power.

As opposed to a lying snake in the grass like Bush?

Hey, remember when Dubya commuted Scooter Libby's sentence before Scoot's memory got better after spending time in prison?

Or when his Daddy pardoned Cap Weinberger before he went to trial.

Now THOSE are abuses.

Again, I think you need that 12 step Obama Derangement Syndrome Treatment.

Yeah, right.

Obama doesn't get any blame and Bush gets all of the blame and will be blamed forever.

That's derangement.

So STFU.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Yeah, right.

Obama doesn't get any blame and Bush gets all of the blame and will be blamed forever.

That's derangement.

So STFU.

Guy, I voted for Bush twice. His father, four times if you count the times he was Ray-Gun's Running Mate.

What I got out of it were three recessions. The value of my property diminished. A busted 401K.

Sorry, if the worst thing I have to worry about is the President getting a blow job or the Teabaggers can't get their tax dodge, then I figure I'm doing pretty good.

Here's something pretty good someone published yesterday.

Meanwhile, U.S. combat forces are out of Iraq, and they’ll be out of Afghanistan next year. U.S. carbon emissions are at their lowest level in two decades, and so are U.S. oil imports. By historical standards, taxes are very low and spending is very modest. General Motors and Chrysler, wards of the state four years ago, are posting their best sales numbers in years. Gays are serving openly in the military, solar installations have increased over 1,000% in four years, a cool robot is taking cool pictures of Mars, and Tesla just paid back its government loan with interest. Things are getting better, and better is better than worse.



But the headlines are all about supposed scandals—stupid IRS agents in Cincinnati, overzealous leak investigations at the Justice Department, a dopey dispute over Benghazi talking points. These are the kind of things that politicians can obsess about when there’s no crisis on the horizon; the last time the national outlook was this bright, Republicans impeached the president for sexing up an intern. It’s unfortunate, but it’s not as if the latest wannabe-scandals are distracting official Washington from any important work it might be doing.

Read more: Apocalypse Not Now: Just About Everything Is Getting Better | TIME.com

 

[jgarden]

Both betrayed the trust of the government while working in some very sensitive areas. Both put on display how really seriously the government has hid information about what they are up.

One, conservatives wanted to see put to death.
One, conservatives hail as a hero.

One, stayed in their country to face the music.
One, fled.

Unlike Manning, Snowden didn't release the names of specific individuals who could be targeted by America's enemies.

I'm surprised that the federal government is going after either one because the any effort to prosecute them would only generates more publicity - which is the last thing the government wants.