Slavery vs illegal immigration

[LilOlLady]

SLAVERY VS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION

I heard a man on C-Span try to justify slavery by saying black Africans sold their own into slavery and had slavery long before we did here. Slavery in Africa was different then slavery here that was handed down from generations to generations until it took a war to force it to end. Slave holders were not forced to buy slaves, trade is slaves and hold them into slavery for over two hundred years until it took a war to force them to release their slaves.
To try to justify illegal immigration by saying that immigrants built this country is like saying slavery should be reinstated because slaves help build this country.
One immigrant enters this country every 27 seconds and this is not acceptable to control immigration. We cannot afford it and we do no have unlimited resources, natural or otherwise to sustain it. It will lead to our certain annihilation as a country

 

[Angelhair]

Everything in its own time. If this man was talking the truth, so be it. The truth will set you free.

 

[José]

Originally posted by LilOLady
To try to justify illegal immigration by saying that immigrants built this country is like saying slavery should be reinstated because slaves help build this country.

Whoever uses "immigrants built this country" to justify illegal immigration is doing a lousy job. If La Raza is saying anything even remotely similar to this then illegal mexicans desperately need another ultra-nationalist chicano organisation to represent their interests.

A much better line of defence is to remind the american people that the so called "American Soutwest" is the direct result of american illegal immigration as well as an act of treason against Mexico commited by a bastard from hell named Stephen Austin and a bunch of "naturalised mexican citizens" under his command.

 

[Angelhair]

La Raza and a number of orgs who are pro-illegals are saying that and more. If immigrants built this country, that was many, many years ago. We do not need the number of so-called immigrants coming to this country anymore. A moritorium is needed for at least 30 yrs so that this country can re-group. If Mexico and mexicans are still burning over the buying of the southwest, it's time they got over it. If not, then come and take it back -if they can! It's time Mexico concentrated on solving all of their miseries especially the misery of their people - the chaos, the poverty, the corruption, and most of all, the CRIME!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Angelhair
La Raza and a number of orgs who are pro-illegals are saying that and more. If immigrants built this country, that was many, many years ago. We do not need the number of so-called immigrants coming to this country anymore. A moritorium is needed for at least 30 yrs so that this country can re-group. If Mexico and mexicans are still burning over the buying of the southwest, it's time they got over it. If not, then come and take it back -if they can! It's time Mexico concentrated on solving all of their miseries especially the misery of their people - the chaos, the poverty, the corruption, and most of all, the CRIME!!

The "American Southwest" was "bought" with american military boots and cannons storming Mexico City and strongarming a country to give up half of its territory.

But who said I agree with that argument anyway?

The only way to preserve your rights over your country's territory after a landgrab is keep fighting for it.

Jews lost their collective will to fight for Israel after 70 BC so they lost their right over that land.

Palestinians have never stopped fighting for their land since 1948 so they still have a valid claim over that land.

You stop fighting for your land you lose your right to live there. It's as simple as that.

Mexico lost its will to fight for its northern provinces after 1846 so they became legitimate american territories.

The moment Paco and José (probably my great-great-grandfather ) laid down their arms California, Texas, New Mexico "went BYE BYE".

The only thing I said was that would be a better argument. Never said I agreed with it.

 

[Angelhair]

Jose, you say that you do not agree with it, but I do have my doubts. And if so, why would anybody want this part of the southwest to be Mexico's when it finds itself in such misery??? There but for the Grace of God go you, me, and everybody else who live in this part of the country. And it was not taken in the way you say. Mexico was willing to get rid of land that was not to their liking. Too barren. And now that they see what this country has done with it, they want it back??? Keep fighting you say? Nah, no point as they have proven that they can't seem to progress or build anything worth while. Comparing the plight of the Jew and the Palestinian to the plight of Mexico is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[LilOlLady]

La Raza and a number of orgs who are pro-illegals are saying that and more. If immigrants built this country, that was many, many years ago. We do not need the number of so-called immigrants coming to this country anymore. A moritorium is needed for at least 30 yrs so that this country can re-group. If Mexico and mexicans are still burning over the buying of the southwest, it's time they got over it. If not, then come and take it back -if they can! It's time Mexico concentrated on solving all of their miseries especially the misery of their people - the chaos, the poverty, the corruption, and most of all, the CRIME!!

FYI, they are taking it back and not have to fire a shot. Our elected officials are GIVING it to them on a silver platter.

 

[José]

Originally posted by LilOlLady
FYI, they are taking it back and not have to fire a shot. Our elected officials are GIVING it to them on a silver platter.

Granny is right on the money.

Mexicans lost their right to live in their former northern provinces when Mexico as a nation gave up fighting for them more than 150 years ago.

But if the GOVERNMENT OF AMERICA is not interested in exercising its sovereign right to regulate and control its borders having made a concious decision to ignore its own laws then this is America's prerogative, this is a SOVEREIGN DECISION THAT MUST BE RESPECTED BY THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

Anyway, what is the rest of the world supposed to do if America stubbornly refuses to enforce its own immigration laws?

Build a "coalition of the willing", declare war on the US, invade the country and install a puppet government in Washington DC that would finally expel illegal immigrants?

That would be a recipe for Armageddon not immigration reform.

 

[Angelhair]

'FYI, they are taking it back and not have to fire a shot. Our elected officials are GIVING it to them on a silver platter. '

And for your info, they can try. Be realistic. In order for them to 'take it back' they would have to declare war on the USA. I really don't see that happening. It is more realistic to expect that the USA would go into Mexico and take it over to save it from itself. Then hand it back to them in a GOLD platter.

 

[Truthmatters]

The illegals are tollorated because Corps use them as cheap labor. This is why the issue has been ignored.

I lived in Cali for decades and still own property there. For decades Cali asked for help in policing the border. For decades the rest of the country laughed at us and told us it was OUR problem. They liked the cheap veggies and fruits and thought it would never effect them. Now the illegals are everywhere in the country so it aint so funny any more.

We have not allowed them legal ways to become citizens and yet we have benifited from their cheap labor for decades. The corps like to have these people in limbo so the right pretends they will do something about it and their minions keep on voting for them even though they do nothing. Bush ( dont blow a gasket Im going to say something nice about Bush) tried to deal with the issue honestly and it amazed me. It was one of the few times the minions parted ways with him.

We have to give amnesty of some sort to the people who have been here long term. There is NO way to pretend we can send EVERYONE back without legal and moral consequences. They are families and they are intertwined with legal Americans. Those who have been here for years and have acted as responsible people holding jobs, building lives and acting within our other laws should be allowed a path to citizenship. It is the logical, humane and fiscally responsible way to deal with the problem.

I know many of you will still knee jerk react and pretend we can send them all back even the ones who are citizens by birth. You are jsut being foolish.

 

[Angelhair]

'They' have been here forever and never tried to legalize their stay?? Oh yes, it's so much better to screw the U.S. government under the table than do the right thing. Send back 20/30 illegals is not realistic - but I sure has heck would not give them a free pass either. If they want to stay here, they should pay the piper even if it is the 'evil' U.S. of A.

 

[barelypure]

But we don't have to send them back. Oklahoma proved that. All we have to do is enforce the laws already on the books. Fine the employers that give jobs to illegals. When the fines amount to greater than the benefit derived from employing illegals the employers will quit hiring illegals. No jobs, no money and they will leave on their own. It will take some time but it will work.

What I'd like to see is an expansion of the worker Visa program where aliens can come here legally to work but not be allowed to apply for citizenship or receive benefits. The numbers we allow in is not enough to provide labor for agriculture, meat processing and the like. That is the source of the problem, IMO.

 

[Big Black Dog]

The biggest mistake America ever made was to bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake America ever made was to not load up every slave and return them to Africa after they were freed. Because America did not do this, it created many of the problems in the US today. Nobody to blame except ourselves. Another terrible mistake America is making is to not strictly enforcing it's borders - especially the border between the US and Mexico. Here again, there is nobody to blame for all of the illegals aliens in the US except for America itself. Seems like with our past history of fucking ourselves with the slaves we would have learned a lesson but it doesn't appear that is the case. There is going to come a day when America will wish they had of kept a closer eye on that southern border. That clock is ticking...

 

[Toronado3800]

Importing a bunch of tax paying young Mexican labor would sure help fix the math on the coming social security shortages w/o raising the retirement age or lowering benefits.

Might also go some towards re-inflating the housing market. More ppl means more demand for houses.

My opinion on this issue is split. On one hand: Every few decades in the 19th century the next group of Polish, Irish, or whatever immigrants was going to be the end of the country. Obviously it wasn't. On the other obviously we can't import the entire broken and starving population of Bangladesh. So there must be a limit.

Perhaps 500,000 young working adults a year as long as they work towards citizenship and leave their hard earned money in the country during their "probationary" period? 100,000? 10,000? What do you think a good number is?

 

[Article 15]

The biggest mistake America ever made was to bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake America ever made was to not load up every slave and return them to Africa after they were freed. Because America did not do this, it created many of the problems in the US today. Nobody to blame except ourselves. Another terrible mistake America is making is to not strictly enforcing it's borders - especially the border between the US and Mexico. Here again, there is nobody to blame for all of the illegals aliens in the US except for America itself. Seems like with our past history of fucking ourselves with the slaves we would have learned a lesson but it doesn't appear that is the case. There is going to come a day when America will wish they had of kept a closer eye on that southern border. That clock is ticking...

We made mistake by not sending the slaves back to Africa when slavery was ended?

I can't believe I just read that.

Yo, BBD, you do realize that by the time slavery was abolished we had generations of AMERICAN born slaves, right?

 

[SW2SILVER]

Importing a bunch of tax paying young Mexican labor would sure help fix the math on the coming social security shortages w/o raising the retirement age or lowering benefits.

Might also go some towards re-inflating the housing market. More ppl means more demand for houses.

My opinion on this issue is split. On one hand: Every few decades in the 19th century the next group of Polish, Irish, or whatever immigrants was going to be the end of the country. Obviously it wasn't. On the other obviously we can't import the entire broken and starving population of Bangladesh. So there must be a limit.

Perhaps 500,000 young working adults a year as long as they work towards citizenship and leave their hard earned money in the country during their "probationary" period? 100,000? 10,000? What do you think a good number is?

Good post. I am also of mixed opinion on this topic. I think an national ID card would be a good start. So far as them (illegals) being taxpayers, that's a dicey issue. We don't know how many people are here illegally with certainty, and we don't know what fraction of that number are actually paying taxes. So, I'd say we need to know how many undocumented immigrants are here at present. Then we can crunch the numbers, and create some realistic solutions. If I might add, this influx of undocumented immigrants can not be compared to European immigration. Poles, Irish and the rest made a commitment to immigrate, and they didn't have the luxury getting in without being scrutinized or sneaking around like cowards. It's disgusting to have illegal aliens put in the same category as my great grand parents that immigrated here legally. They wanted a better life, and had to work hard JUST to get in.