Single Pay Education

[DiveCon]

Parts of it has good ideas. Dive, what are your ideas on how we should/could change the education system in this country? You must be interested since your posting on this thread, I bet you have some great ones!

well, i say drop the fed dept of education, cut taxes by the amount that funds it, allow the locals/states to collect that money however they wish to do it and then let them run their own schools

Interesting. So no Dept of Ed. That means no NCLB!

Where do you think the states would get the extra money that is not provided by the government? What taxes would need to be increased in each state to make up the difference?

i was NEVER a supporter of NCLB, that was Ted Kennedy's baby

 

[rdean]

How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids, instead of looking to government to wipe their butt for them?

Taking responsibility? Are you saying, "Make abortion legal"?

 

[xotoxi]

How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids, instead of looking to government to wipe their butt for them?

Have you met most parents?

I have met many inner city parents. Some, not all, really want to make a better life for their children,and know a good education is the way out of poverty. A lot of them don't know how to be good role models, because they didn't have them. I think breaking the cycle through better education is a step in the right direction. But it's not going to happen overnight, and there need to be changes made. The NCLB has good points and bad points, and some expectations that can never be met.

Actually, my statement wasn't as much a comment on most parents desire for their kids to have a good education, but for them to personally provide their kids a good education.

I thought that when BGG said "How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids...", I thought he was referring to homeschooling.

And I don't think that MOST parents would be able to provide a quality education through homeschooling...either because of other time/work commitments or because of limited education themselves.

 

[rdean]

How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids, instead of looking to government to wipe their butt for them?

Have you met most parents?

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

I'm with you. Screw education. Who cares about a bunch of book stuff anyway? Look at all the jobs you don't even need any education for. Go ahead, list all those jobs you don't need any education for.

 

[xotoxi]

Parts of it has good ideas. Dive, what are your ideas on how we should/could change the education system in this country? You must be interested since your posting on this thread, I bet you have some great ones!

well, i say drop the fed dept of education, cut taxes by the amount that funds it, allow the locals/states to collect that money however they wish to do it and then let them run their own schools

Interesting. So no Dept of Ed. That means no NCLB!

Where do you think the states would get the extra money that is not provided by the government? What taxes would need to be increased in each state to make up the difference?

Essentially, in the end everyone's tax payment would be the same.

 

[random3434]

How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids, instead of looking to government to wipe their butt for them?

Have you met most parents?

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

Why do you refer to 'wiping your butt' so much in your posts? Do you think that helps get your point across more effectively?


You said this:


For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach

Now, can you expand on that, and tell us how every child in America can be educated without any money from the government? You said a lot of people don't want to hear it, but I do! I'm interested in how this can work. Thanks!

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

How about parents taking responsibility for educating their own kids, instead of looking to government to wipe their butt for them?

Taking responsibility? Are you saying, "Make abortion legal"?

This thread is about education. I did not state or infer anything about abortion. Nice attempt at a derail.

 

[xotoxi]

Now, can you expand on that, and tell us how every child in America can be educated without any money from the government? You said a lot of people don't want to hear it, but I do! I'm interested in how this can work. Thanks!

Private donations! DUH!

Everything can be paid for by private donations.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Have you met most parents?

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

I'm with you. Screw education. Who cares about a bunch of book stuff anyway? Look at all the jobs you don't even need any education for. Go ahead, list all those jobs you don't need any education for.

Did I say screw education? No, I did not. You should read what is actually said, instead of constantly trying to project your own spin onto other peoples posts.

 

[manu1959]

Have you met most parents?

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

I'm with you. Screw education. Who cares about a bunch of book stuff anyway? Look at all the jobs you don't even need any education for. Go ahead, list all those jobs you don't need any education for.

bill gates did pretty well with no sheepskin......

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Have you met most parents?

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

Why do you refer to 'wiping your butt' so much in your posts? Do you think that helps get your point across more effectively?


You said this:


For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach

Now, can you expand on that, and tell us how every child in America can be educated without any money from the government? You said a lot of people don't want to hear it, but I do! I'm interested in how this can work. Thanks!

When a person looks to government for the answer, instead of themselves and their fellow Americans, because they want what they want regardless of what the Constitution says, I consider that wipe your butt mentality.

If you want the federal government to fix the educational mess that they helped to create in the first place, you will need to show me that they have business in the education business to begin with, per the Constitution.

1) Citizens can form educational groups, and help education each others children. Minimal costs involved with small class sizes.

2) A lot of churches offer secular education.

3) Home School

4) Private School

There are 4 ways kids can receive an education, without the federal government.

There is nothing magical about. There is no need for new and improved, when these methods work.

 

[xotoxi]

This line always gets me...

How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

It seems to pop up everywhere in nearly every topic...that and "lazy liberals".

What the FUCK does personal responsibility and accountability have to do with public education?

Is parent who works all day to earn a modest living, who sends their children to public school somehow being IRRESPONSIBLE and/or UNACCOUNTABLE???

Give me some insight into your delusions.

 

[manifold]

Sounds like a power-grubbing government band-aid to me.

You want an idea for real reform?

Take all the public money we currently spend on education, including college, and redirect it to K-8 only. And make it count. Allow students to take as long as they need to pass each level up to age 21, with a sliding cash bonus for early completion. Everything after that is private.

 

[random3434]

What does that have to do with the core issue? Why is it, so many people complain about the political whores in Washington, and the ever growing expanse of government, and then want government to fix another problem that they helped to create? That is illogical.

According to the Constitution, the federal government has no business in the education business to begin with. But people have gotten so used to their big government wipe my butt for my ways, they see the Constitution way as foreign and wrong.

If people of the respective states want to have their government wipe their butt for them in this area, then they can pay for it themselves. i want no part of paying for someone else in a different state.

It is sad that so many feel lost without the feds. And it is just as troubling, that so many self-professing conservatives rail on the self-professed liberals for loving their welfare, while being in love with it themselves.

How about we actually follow the Constitution, instead of trying to cherry pick it apart? How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach.

Why do you refer to 'wiping your butt' so much in your posts? Do you think that helps get your point across more effectively?


You said this:


For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach

Now, can you expand on that, and tell us how every child in America can be educated without any money from the government? You said a lot of people don't want to hear it, but I do! I'm interested in how this can work. Thanks!

When a person looks to government for the answer, instead of themselves and their fellow Americans, because they want what they want regardless of what the Constitution says, I consider that wipe your butt mentality.

If you want the federal government to fix the educational mess that they helped to create in the first place, you will need to show me that they have business in the education business to begin with, per the Constitution.

1) Citizens can form educational groups, and help education each others children. Minimal costs involved with small class sizes.

2) A lot of churches offer secular education.

3) Home School

4) Private School

There are 4 ways kids can receive an education, without the federal government.

There is nothing magical about. There is no need for new and improved, when these methods work.

OK, so let's say we shut down all the public schools in America by 2012. Then all of those students will have some sort of education plan made by the citizens? Who are teaching all of these children? How many students are in each small group? How would you group them, by age, ability? What about special needs students, where do they fit in all of this? Not everyone is trained to teach them. Where will these students be during the day? In a town hall? Some one's home?


Sorry I have so many questions, but this is fascinating to me!

 

[random3434]

Sounds like a power-grubbing government band-aid to me.

You want an idea for real reform?

Take all the public money we currently spend on education, including college, and redirect it to K-8 only. And make it count. Allow students to take as long as they need to pass each level up to age 21, with a sliding cash bonus for early completion. Everything after that is private.

That's not a bad idea! Let's say the child graduates at age 13,14, is that cash bonus cash for whatever they want to use it for, or like a 'debit card' to use for the school of their choosing.

Make all high schools private, or make them have to pay to go, like college?

The idea of not passing them on until they learn the subject matter is a great idea btw!

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

This line always gets me...

How about people start practicing personal responsibility and accountability?

It seems to pop up everywhere in nearly every topic...that and "lazy liberals".

What the FUCK does personal responsibility and accountability have to do with public education?

Is parent who works all day to earn a modest living, who sends their children to public school somehow being IRRESPONSIBLE and/or UNACCOUNTABLE???

Give me some insight into your delusions.

If you don't know what personal responsibility and accountability has to do with the topic of using the federal government to educate children, you might want to cut down a few trees so you can see the obvious before you.

I am not delusional about anything.

If a parent is intellectually capable of educating their child, and they pawn them off on the government donut factory instead because it is too inconvenient for them to do it, they are lazy parents, in my opinion. It is not the government's job to educate your kids or anyone elses.

If all you have are insults instead of honest debate, you can go argue with yourself. I am not going to waste my time trying to debate someone who wants to insult me.

 

[xotoxi]

Sounds like a power-grubbing government band-aid to me.

You want an idea for real reform?

Take all the public money we currently spend on education, including college, and redirect it to K-8 only. And make it count. Allow students to take as long as they need to pass each level up to age 21, with a sliding cash bonus for early completion. Everything after that is private.

That's not a bad idea! Let's say the child graduates at age 13,14, is that cash bonus cash for whatever they want to use it for, or like a 'debit card' to use for the school of their choosing.

Make all high schools private, or make them have to pay to go, like college?

The idea of not passing them on until they learn the subject matter is a great idea btw!

What I think that you meant to say was:

The idea of not passing them on until they are fully indoctrinated is a great idea btw!

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Why do you refer to 'wiping your butt' so much in your posts? Do you think that helps get your point across more effectively?


You said this:


For those that don't have the ability to home school or make other private entity arrangements, and for those who are orphans, education can still be accomplished, without the federal government. A lot of people don't want to hear all that though. It is too hard for them. It requires too much time and sacrifice. It is easier for them to pawn their kids off on someone else to babysit / teach

Now, can you expand on that, and tell us how every child in America can be educated without any money from the government? You said a lot of people don't want to hear it, but I do! I'm interested in how this can work. Thanks!

When a person looks to government for the answer, instead of themselves and their fellow Americans, because they want what they want regardless of what the Constitution says, I consider that wipe your butt mentality.

If you want the federal government to fix the educational mess that they helped to create in the first place, you will need to show me that they have business in the education business to begin with, per the Constitution.

1) Citizens can form educational groups, and help education each others children. Minimal costs involved with small class sizes.

2) A lot of churches offer secular education.

3) Home School

4) Private School

There are 4 ways kids can receive an education, without the federal government.

There is nothing magical about. There is no need for new and improved, when these methods work.

OK, so let's say we shut down all the public schools in America by 2012. Then all of those students will have some sort of education plan made by the citizens? Who are teaching all of these children? How many students are in each small group? How would you group them, by age, ability? What about special needs students, where do they fit in all of this? Not everyone is trained to teach them. Where will these students be during the day? In a town hall? Some one's home?


Sorry I have so many questions, but this is fascinating to me!

I didn't say anything about shutting down the schools. I merely said get the feds out of it. I don't personally believe in using the government as a crutch, but the states running and funding their own schools void of the feds is constitutional.

Why don't you work on finding some local solutions yourself? What works for people in one group in one state, may not work in another. People are not robots. We are all different.

Save your mocking condescension for someone else. It is not my job to come up with all the answers to your questions.

 

[xotoxi]

If a parent is intellectually capable of educating their child, and they pawn them off on the government donut factory instead because it is too inconvenient for them to do it, they are lazy parents, in my opinion.

I am intellectually capable of educating my children.

Therefore, is it lazy for me to continue to work as a physician and send my children to be educated by people who are specifically trained to teach children.

Or, do you suggest that I should shut down my medical practice and personally homeschool my kids until they are 18...

 

[manifold]

Sounds like a power-grubbing government band-aid to me.

You want an idea for real reform?

Take all the public money we currently spend on education, including college, and redirect it to K-8 only. And make it count. Allow students to take as long as they need to pass each level up to age 21, with a sliding cash bonus for early completion. Everything after that is private.

The student/teacher ratios would decline dramatically, affording more attention and allowing for much greater flexibility in lesson planning and pace, during the most critical period of a person’s intellectual development. Smarter students will earn scholarships or work for employers that will fund higher education, and the slower students don’t get left behind. And we all truly benefit from bringing up the bottom without lowering the top, which necessarily raises the overall average.