Sick and tired of US debate on raising the min. wage.

[danielpalos]

OH lord-----raising the minimum wage increases the amount of money that those corporation can charge making them RICHER and you poorer. Because the prices rise aka inflation--despite getting paid $15 an hour---there will be no increase in the standard of living for those workers---------but for the elderly who live on a fixed income and for those who put in the time and training to get better paying jobs--prices for them will also increase bringing down their standard of living--

Even the dollar menu won't double even if the minimum wage does, and those on fixed incomes have cost of living adjustments tied to inflation.

 

[Wyatt earp]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

On top of that, 60%+ of the workforce makes $20/hr or less. I would expect all of them to demand a big raise. You don't want to go from making almost triple the MW after some years of hard work to making just a few dollars more than the unskilled kid off the street. The market would be disrupted.

No, the only way a MW works is if it's low enough to not make that much difference.

Shit
Imagine that

All low wage workers receiving higher wages after sucking it up for twelve years

Yeah they will be proud to make minimum wage

 

[Asclepias]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

 

[danielpalos]

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

If capitalism worked as advertised, wages would have kept up with inflation.

 

[tigerred59]

Joe Biden, as do most economist wants to raise the min. wage to 15.00 an hour, from the poultry 7.25 as it stands today. Most workers of course do not make 7.25 an hour as we all know, most are making btwn 8-12 an hour, with 12.00 being the standard. However, this debate has got to come to an end and real work, not words have to prevail this time.

For the last 12 years Wall Street as has Main Street retailers via online venues, all have seen profits soar to historic levels and Trump rallied and braged on how rich the rich was getting especially his last 4 years, not only with tax cuts but with market growths...so this bullshit about ppl will lose jobs...tired of hearing about it.

And waiting on a recovery from this pandemic will take another decade, if not more with so many business's, closing. However, NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY WILL MAKE A DIME, OUTSIDE OF SPECULATORS AND HEDGE FUNDERS on WALL STREET, WITHOUT CONSUMER SPENDING.

Its time Biden, congress and the senate take the effort, the vote and raise the min. wage to a level that can not only help families regroup again with a new job focus, but also help business's grow also. Amazon raised wages profits only grew. Some companies will have to fold, welcome to life!! But at least the owner can go out and find a job paying 15 bucks an hour vs 7.25.

OH lord-----raising the minimum wage increases the amount of money that those corporation can charge making them RICHER and you poorer. Because the prices rise aka inflation--despite getting paid $15 an hour---there will be no increase in the standard of living for those workers---------but for the elderly who live on a fixed income and for those who put in the time and training to get better paying jobs--prices for them will also increase bringing down their standard of living--

Excuses excuses.....how would we know anything, if we don't try it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

We have sold out the working class for too long

We just gave business a 40 percent tax cut but they cry poverty if they have to give their lowest paid workers a pay increase after 12 years

Who's crying poverty? A business will adjust to an increase in costs. How it adjusts is effected by how big the increase is and how fast it hit. A business, can, for example:

1. Lay off workers. Fewer people working and fewer goods and services on the market, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners (pssst, don't tell anybody the owner still gets paid what he did before).
2. Outsource jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Customer service now comes from Calcutta by a guy you can't understand, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
3. Automate jobs and, yes, lay off workers. Sure you have to place your order and pay for it without a person to explain that number 3 is atomic blast hot, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
4. Be sold and absorbed by a competitor, and yes, lay off workers. More good paying jobs lost, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.
5. Fold up and go out of business. Sure, the owner walks away with everything and everybody is out of a job, and well, you know the rest.
6. Raise prices. This may not be possible based on the market. With all those laid off workers trying to hold onto every dollar until they can start working again, not too many are going to be happy paying more for stuff, but hey, we really stuck it to those business owners.

The market adjusts
It always has

Low wage workers have had to adjust to not receiving a pay raise in twelve years. They adjusted by doing with less and assuming more debt.

Meanwhile, we gave their employers a 40 percent tax cut. None of which trickled down in higher wages and benefits

You trying to tell us people have not gotten a raise in 12 years?

Yes

Fucking liar

 

[MaryL]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

 

[Andylusion]

Long Beach just mandated a 4 dollar raise for grocery store owners. Two major grocery stores promptly closed leaving all employees out of a job and out of job benefits.

If they need a $7.25 minimum wage to stay in business, they deserve to close

Good. The two biggest grocery stores closed. Yaaay. The people are out of a job. The neighborhood now has to go elsewhere to shop. Meanwhile the Kroger company will not feel a thing. It's a win lose in all the right places.

If Kroger cannot operate without $7.25 wages
They deserve to fail

That's fine.... but just understand that if every business that deserves to fail, fails, then you will have mass unemployment and a great depression.

The people in Greece, said the same thing, which is why they had a minimum wage that was tied to inflation, and the result was the entire country imploded.

Guess what they did? They cut the minimum wage. Guess what happened? Unemployment in the 30% range, started to fall.

Again, you can say that, but them failing just means people are unemployed.

See you seem to be operating under the strange idea that if all the companies that can't pay $15/hour fail... then all those unemployed people will just magically find jobs that pay $15/hour. No. That's not how it works. If your labor isn't worth $15/hours, then you just stay unemployed.

You can mandate a minimum wage, sure. But you can't mandate that customers pay $15/hour for labor that isn't worth $15/hours. Thus those people just.... don't have a job.

Save me the drama

Minimum wage has been increased for 80 years. Business survived, the market adjusted.

We have not increased the wage in eleven years. Low wage workers have suffered. They have used debt to replace wages that haven kept up with inflation

biden made a promise, he best keep it...WAGES NEED TO GO UP AND IF BUSINESS WANT TO LEAVE...BYE!!

If business want to leave.... then your wages don't go up, do they? Bye?

Did you miss what happened in Venezuela when they made the same demands on business there?

View attachment 452635

Do you really want to be eating out of the garbage?

10 Billionaires Made Enough Money During The Pandemic To Vaccinate The Entire World
They could save millions from poverty with what’s left over, according to a new Oxfam report on inequality and the coronavirus.
By Amanda Schupak

Right, and the super wealthy were making jobs and wealth in Venezuela. Left-wing people chased them out of Venezuela. That's why they are eating garbage.

Saying 10 Billionaires made enough to vaccinate the world.... first I don't think that's true, but even if it was.... so what?

Really... so what? It's not your money. It's theirs. Can I make demands on what you do with your money? No? That's true of us all, right?

Say you give up a good job in NYC, and you move to Seattle, and say you work day a night, 7 days a week, sometimes until 4 AM in the morning, to ship out books. Your friends and relatives think you are insane. Literally they thing you have lost your mind, because you went from a plush office in New York City, to having a door, and actual wooden door as your desk.

But you work your butt off. You work 7 days a week, for 10 years, and build your company into an international company called Amazon.

Do I get to tell you what you do with your money?

Now if you want to give your money for vaccines, you are free to do so... but do I, and others like me, get to dictate what you do with your money, after you worked so hard?

So I ask again... so what if Bezo and others could vaccinate the world? So what?

By the way, I don't think that is even true.

The billionaires of the world, have most of their wealth in stock options. In other words, it's not cash.

For example, Bezos total cash compensation as CEO was only $81,840, just as it was in 1998.

Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salary of $81,840 hasn't changed in decades

Amazon.com Inc. undefined filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base...

www.marketwatch.com

​

Amazon.com Inc. filed its 2019 proxy statement Thursday, showing that Founder and Chief Executive Jeff Bezos is still making $81,840 a year in base salary, just as he has for decades. His base salary in 1998 was also $81,840. Bezos total compensation last year, which includes no stock awards, was $1.68 million. The $1.6 million in "other compensation" includes costs to the e-commerce and cloud giant of security arrangements for Bezos, in addition to security arrangements at business facilities and for business travel.​

In other words, a husband and wife truck driver team, earned more in real cash, than Jeff Bezos.

So where do people get this idea that Bezos made billions on billions to pay for vaccinations?

Because Bezos owns the stock to Amazon. After all.... he made the company. And those stocks go up and down in value.

Jeff Bezos

Jeff Bezos on the 2024 The Richest Person In Every State

www.forbes.com

What happens is, the value of the company goes up... and they say "Bezos made ##### Billion a minute!"... no he didn't. His company went up in value, but Bezos didn't see a single penny. Bezos hasn't had a pay raise in 20 years. He's still earning $81,840 a year, just like he did two decades ago.

The only thing that has increase, is that his compensation includes security and travel costs. Plane rides, and armed guards. Can you pay for vaccines with airline tickets and security cameras? No.

So factually speaking, the article isn't even accurate.

 

[tigerred59]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

All these GOP loving red states would be eating squirrel meat and tree bark, if it wasn't for SSI and welfare checks

 

[rightwinger]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

 

[Andylusion]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Exactly. The real solution is for people to do higher value work.

All the prices will adjust upward to fit the new minimum wage.

The real solution is for people to increase their value in the market.

 

[Asclepias]

One of the things a lot of people miss with this topic is the unintended consequences...

I work in a Union environment. If the $10 an hour call center operators get an upgrade to $15 an hour then my $40 an hour job (4x the Operator pay) has to go up to $60 an hour. Imagine what that would require the company to do with our electric rates (I work for a utility company).

" has to go up to $60 "

Nothing has to go up because someone else got a raise. That can always be renegotiated.

What universe do you live in? In the REAL world if you're making fifteen dollars an hour and new hires are making ten dollars an hour...when the new hire starts making fifteen dollars an hour do you REALLY think you're not going to ask for a raise to twenty dollars an hour? Get your head out of your ass on this topic, Folks...it's not rocket science! You do however have to use a little common sense!

I would never ask for a raise because I was jealous. Sorry. I'm just not built like that. If youre character is such that you would be upset because someone else got a break you should reassess your character and ask why someone else making more money effects you? Stop being childish and spiteful.

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

" Job skill is what should get you a higher wage... "

I agree but there should be a minimum wage that keeps you out of poverty just like there should be free health care in this country.

Or raise the minimum wage until we can lower the cost of Government by Labor not needing any social services.

That sounds good in theory but face it. There will never be enough well paying jobs for people to not need social services. What if you cant even work?

 

[tigerred59]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Disclaimer here: You're right, you're an idiot!!

 

[Asclepias]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There's a big difference between paying a dollar an hour more for 10 years and having labor costs double overnight. You really ought to chill out on the hyperbole.

Might make sense if you hadn’t frozen low end wages for twelve years and given employers a 40 percent tax cut

That's why they have jobs in the red states .

 

[Anathema]

That is between you and the Union and your employer. I never worked anywhere the upper paid workers we on a multiple of lower paid worker, wage base and that included two union shops, though I was only union at one, back in 75 or 76.

Again, it’s not an automatic raise or figured directly as so many times the pay of another roster; but the Operations guys know what the lower level, and especially admin workers make.

They have made it clear to the Company and the Union that ANY significant increase in the pay for those admin/lower rosters will have to come with a similar increase for Operations and Design or it simply won’t pass a vote.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I've never asked for a raise out of jealousy. I've always asked for raises when the job skills that I've learned have made me more valuable to my employer! Job skill is what should get you a higher wage...not some government mandate.

Why do we have an endless war on poverty or any homeless if it is as easy as you claim?

Get rid of welfare, problem solved

What are all those people in those red states going to do without welfare?

Get a job at bmw, volvo, toyota and the rest?

They dont need that many workers. They have robots.

Not according to the job boards

 

[tigerred59]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Exactly. The real solution is for people to do higher value work.

All the prices will adjust upward to fit the new minimum wage.

The real solution is for people to increase their value in the market.

Please get out more....people are busting thier ass's to keep the food chain going amist this pandemic and they deserve a decent wage. Stop with this analytical boojay commentary and get off your ass and see real people in this economy and not some Fox fed bullshit you get every fuckin night....Jezzzzus

 

[Asclepias]

Disclaimer here: I an not an economist. But its seems that raising the minimum wage is like raising the water level to a person drowning. There are far larger more substantial issues involved and THIS measure is so petty and doesn't resolve resolve anything, it just kicks the can down the road.

Not sure how you came up with that weird analogy. Raising the minimum wage would be more like lowering the water level to where the person drowning could stand up.