Lewdog
Gold Member
What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?
Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....
In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......
There you go.
You have no clue how many really occurred.
I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.
When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.
When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?
You have no clue how many really occurred.
We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
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Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
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Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
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If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....
You don't have any idea how many actually occurred because crime stats reporting is totally fucked up.
Do you realize it comes to what a Police officer wants to write in the report? And do you think officers like guns and would want to make sure when writing a report about an attempted crime, they put in the report it was stopped by the owner having a gun? Of course they would.
Not to mention, when it comes to self-reporting attempted criminal acts, of course the victim who stopped the crime is going to exaggerate to make themselves look better. Hell how many people do think in a survey about stopping crime with guns is going to make up a story just to make guns look better?
I can tear holes in all your arguments.
Sorry...actual research shows you don't understand the issue....
On defensive gun use research....
Myth #3 - "2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can't be accurate" | Buckeye Firearms Association
First, consider some factors which could produce an overestimate. The sample size, or number of persons surveyed, while smaller than the NCVS, is several times larger than that usually used in most public opinion polls. Extrapolating from too small of a sample is one way to get an overestimate, but this is not a problem for Kleck's survey, since the Gallup Poll and the Roper Center routinely use samples smaller than this for their national surveys. (The results of such national polls are often promoted as newsworthy.) As Kleck notes, the random sampling error of his survey is less than 1%. The phenomenon known as "telescoping," in which past events are remembered as being much more recent than they actually are, could account for some increase in reported DGUs, but Kleck's survey, which uses two time periods, asking about events in the past five years, and within the last twelve months, takes this into account. Kleck's definition of a DGU to include defense of property could serve to increase the number of reported DGUs, since use of deadly force to protect property is not legally recognized in many states. Kleck notes however, that it was not the purpose of the survey to discern the legality or morality of the respondent's actions.
One possible source of overestimation that has been seized upon by critics wanting to explain away Kleck's results is what Kleck terms the "dishonest respondent" hypothesis, or in other words, that the respondents made up a story about a DGU. Only 24% of respondents reporting a DGU claimed to have fired their gun, and even if one were to discard these reported DGUs entirely (and arbitrarily) as overly dramatic, this leaves well over a million and a half estimated DGUs, a rate twenty times that of the estimate derived from the NCVS. To assume that even 24% of respondents are actively trying to create a dramatic story which is internally consistent enough to deceive the experienced team of interviewers Kleck used, much less a sufficient number to account for the vast difference in estimates between the Kleck survey and the NCVS, is in itself hard to believe. For the NCVS to miss a DGU requires only that the respondent not volunteer the information, but as Kleck observes "[t]here is no precedent in criminological research" for the "enormous level of intentional and sustained falsification" on the part of respondents which would be required in order to account for the 30-fold difference in estimated annual DGUs between Kleck's survey and the NCVS.
Indeed, Kleck argues, there is reason to believe that the estimate of 2.5 million annual DGUs is too low. There is the problem of self-censorship in reporting, since there is evidence that some respondents to the Kleck survey were wary of reporting such incidents to anonymous strangers, much less to government officials as in the NCVS. Several respondents expressed suspicion of the interviewer prior to answering "no" to the DGU question, perhaps because they view their actions as legally questionable. There may also be instances in which respondents regarded their own DGU incidents as too minor to report, or households in which DGU incidents of other household members were not known to the respondent, or where it was not considered appropriate to discuss the DGU incidents of other household members. The limitations of a telephone survey preclude sampling among the 5% of American households without telephones, most of which are poor and/or rural. As poor people are more likely to be victims of crime, and there is a higher rate of gun ownership in rural areas, this could also contribute to an underestimation of the number of DGUs.
Sorry, but yes it is flawed. Any time you ask a person to fill out a survey, they are going to be biased, especially when it comes to an issue like guns. People like you, will exaggerate almost every time. You WANT guns to have a good reputation.
Go to another country and do a survey there about guns, especially in a country like Australia. They are humanoids right? They live in the same kind of world as people in the U.S. They work, they play, they love... all the same things Americans do. Now find me a survey about guns from there.