CDZ Should we ban street racing cars?

[2aguy]

Y'all are wasting your time. They don't care how many die, they just want the guns.

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

 

[Lewdog]

I guess we need to ban people from swimming too? Outlaw Tylenol? Kill ALL mosquitoes?

According to your logic...of course...since more children die in pools than by AR-15 civilian rifles....

And your logic fails to understand WHAT an AR-15 is for and what a car is for.

No...I undertand both....the AR-15 civilian rifle is for self defense, defending your family...the camry is a street racer that people who have a small penis use to feel like men....

An AR-15 is for KILLING. A car is for getting from here-to-there.

People don't use Camrys to race FYI. They would use something like a Supra, Lancer, and an RX7.

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

 

[Lewdog]

Y'all are wasting your time. They don't care how many die, they just want the guns.

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[2aguy]

According to your logic...of course...since more children die in pools than by AR-15 civilian rifles....

And your logic fails to understand WHAT an AR-15 is for and what a car is for.

No...I undertand both....the AR-15 civilian rifle is for self defense, defending your family...the camry is a street racer that people who have a small penis use to feel like men....

An AR-15 is for KILLING. A car is for getting from here-to-there.

People don't use Camrys to race FYI. They would use something like a Supra, Lancer, and an RX7.

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....


https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

 

[2aguy]

Y'all are wasting your time. They don't care how many die, they just want the guns.

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

 

[Lewdog]

And your logic fails to understand WHAT an AR-15 is for and what a car is for.

No...I undertand both....the AR-15 civilian rifle is for self defense, defending your family...the camry is a street racer that people who have a small penis use to feel like men....

An AR-15 is for KILLING. A car is for getting from here-to-there.

People don't use Camrys to race FYI. They would use something like a Supra, Lancer, and an RX7.

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html
Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

 

[there4eyeM]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

 

[Lewdog]

Y'all are wasting your time. They don't care how many die, they just want the guns.

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

 

[2aguy]

No...I undertand both....the AR-15 civilian rifle is for self defense, defending your family...the camry is a street racer that people who have a small penis use to feel like men....

An AR-15 is for KILLING. A car is for getting from here-to-there.

People don't use Camrys to race FYI. They would use something like a Supra, Lancer, and an RX7.

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

 

[2aguy]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

When Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent rapists, robbers and murderers, it isn't an ancient concept...it is real life saving happening every single day....

And when you still have people walking around with numbers tattooed on their arms from the socialist death camps, the soviet death camps, the Chinese death camps......it isn't an ancient concept.

 

[Lewdog]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

Yeah I have to deal with this same issue in one of my Grad classes. People talk about the horrific things that happen in the world, like wars, and crime... and then they have this idea that if you can get all the way to a root, they think we can fix everything. Too many people have this unrealistic idea that we can get rid of wars and crime, but we can't. We never will. Greed, ego, and all kinds of issues that make man a flawed being is ingrained, and even in a perfect world where everyone had money, and housing, and anything they ever wanted, there would still be some people who will want more, and to have the power to tell other people what to do.

It gets frustrating, because one of the important things about setting goals is to set achievable ones.

 

[2aguy]

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You fire a gun for different reasons.....some fire it for self defense....1,500,000 times, but most of those self defense uses do not end up with the gun having to be fired.....most of the time the gun is simply shown, the criminal runs away or surrenders.

Then you have people who fire a gun when they want to eat meat.

Then you have people who fire a gun because they compete in a sport.

Criminals use cars to commit rapes, robberies and murders....all reasons why civilians shouldn't have them...but...I am not for banning all cars...just street racers like the camry....

 

[Lewdog]

An AR-15 is for KILLING. A car is for getting from here-to-there.

People don't use Camrys to race FYI. They would use something like a Supra, Lancer, and an RX7.

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

 

[2aguy]

Guns? Isn’t this thread about cars? Has CCJones called this a false comparison fallacy yet?

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You have no clue how many really occurred.

We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...


A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

And yet...the AR-15 civilian rifle kills fewer people each and every year than cars do.......cars....especially street racers like the toyota camry do not belong on our streets, they are deadlier than AR-15 rifles...and if you want to ban the AR-15 civilian rifle....why don't you want to ban street killing machines like the camry?

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

 

[Lewdog]

No, it's about guns, but 2aguy is so in love with guns every thread he starts is about them. Isn't there a gun section on the forum somewhere?

I really do think there is a serious issue with someone who does nothing but sit all day looking for stories about guns.

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You have no clue how many really occurred.

We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...


A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You don't have any idea how many actually occurred because crime stats reporting is totally fucked up.

Do you realize it comes to what a Police officer wants to write in the report? And do you think officers like guns and would want to make sure when writing a report about an attempted crime, they put in the report it was stopped by the owner having a gun? Of course they would.

Not to mention, when it comes to self-reporting attempted criminal acts, of course the victim who stopped the crime is going to exaggerate to make themselves look better. Hell how many people do think in a survey about stopping crime with guns is going to make up a story just to make guns look better?

I can tear holes in all your arguments.

 

[Lewdog]

I already asked you a question. How many people own cars and drive in the U.S. compared to how many people own guns and go shoot them EVERY day?

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

 

[2aguy]

No...it isn't about guns...it is about self defense and Civil Rights.......you guys never understand that..but then guys like you support the AAA.....a group that supports street, killing machines.

What is the purpose of a gun? What is it used for? When you shoot a gun, what are you trying to accomplish?

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop rape, robbery and murder.....

In all rapes, robberies and murders, the criminals use automobiles to commit the crimes......

There you go.

You have no clue how many really occurred.

I'll ask you one more time, then I'm out. If you are an honest person you'll answer.

When you fire a gun, WHAT is your purpose? And I don't mean at the range.

When you drive a car are you thinking about killing people with it?

You have no clue how many really occurred.

We have a lot of research that gives us a pretty good idea how many times Americans use their guns for self defense...


A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

You don't have any idea how many actually occurred because crime stats reporting is totally fucked up.

Do you realize it comes to what a Police officer wants to write in the report? And do you think officers like guns and would want to make sure when writing a report about an attempted crime, they put in the report it was stopped by the owner having a gun? Of course they would.

Not to mention, when it comes to self-reporting attempted criminal acts, of course the victim who stopped the crime is going to exaggerate to make themselves look better. Hell how many people do think in a survey about stopping crime with guns is going to make up a story just to make guns look better?

I can tear holes in all your arguments.

Sorry...actual research shows you don't understand the issue....

On defensive gun use research....

Myth #3 - "2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can't be accurate" | Buckeye Firearms Association

First, consider some factors which could produce an overestimate. The sample size, or number of persons surveyed, while smaller than the NCVS, is several times larger than that usually used in most public opinion polls. Extrapolating from too small of a sample is one way to get an overestimate, but this is not a problem for Kleck's survey, since the Gallup Poll and the Roper Center routinely use samples smaller than this for their national surveys. (The results of such national polls are often promoted as newsworthy.) As Kleck notes, the random sampling error of his survey is less than 1%. The phenomenon known as "telescoping," in which past events are remembered as being much more recent than they actually are, could account for some increase in reported DGUs, but Kleck's survey, which uses two time periods, asking about events in the past five years, and within the last twelve months, takes this into account. Kleck's definition of a DGU to include defense of property could serve to increase the number of reported DGUs, since use of deadly force to protect property is not legally recognized in many states. Kleck notes however, that it was not the purpose of the survey to discern the legality or morality of the respondent's actions.

One possible source of overestimation that has been seized upon by critics wanting to explain away Kleck's results is what Kleck terms the "dishonest respondent" hypothesis, or in other words, that the respondents made up a story about a DGU. Only 24% of respondents reporting a DGU claimed to have fired their gun, and even if one were to discard these reported DGUs entirely (and arbitrarily) as overly dramatic, this leaves well over a million and a half estimated DGUs, a rate twenty times that of the estimate derived from the NCVS. To assume that even 24% of respondents are actively trying to create a dramatic story which is internally consistent enough to deceive the experienced team of interviewers Kleck used, much less a sufficient number to account for the vast difference in estimates between the Kleck survey and the NCVS, is in itself hard to believe. For the NCVS to miss a DGU requires only that the respondent not volunteer the information, but as Kleck observes "[t]here is no precedent in criminological research" for the "enormous level of intentional and sustained falsification" on the part of respondents which would be required in order to account for the 30-fold difference in estimated annual DGUs between Kleck's survey and the NCVS.

Indeed, Kleck argues, there is reason to believe that the estimate of 2.5 million annual DGUs is too low. There is the problem of self-censorship in reporting, since there is evidence that some respondents to the Kleck survey were wary of reporting such incidents to anonymous strangers, much less to government officials as in the NCVS. Several respondents expressed suspicion of the interviewer prior to answering "no" to the DGU question, perhaps because they view their actions as legally questionable. There may also be instances in which respondents regarded their own DGU incidents as too minor to report, or households in which DGU incidents of other household members were not known to the respondent, or where it was not considered appropriate to discuss the DGU incidents of other household members. The limitations of a telephone survey preclude sampling among the 5% of American households without telephones, most of which are poor and/or rural. As poor people are more likely to be victims of crime, and there is a higher rate of gun ownership in rural areas, this could also contribute to an underestimation of the number of DGUs.

 

[2aguy]

And I told you.....it doesn't matter.....cars actually kill more people than all guns used illegally or accidentally.....

accidental death comparison, car v. gun..

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder v. Car death.....

Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016

Gun.....495

Car.......38,748


Gun murder.....2016


FBI....11,004

Cars are deadlier in every way than guns are.....the numbers show this.....

It DOES matter. When you fire a gun, what is your purpose for doing so?

When you drive your car, is the first thing going through your head "Hey I plan on running people over today!"

Your numbers don't matter if you aren't going to do the percentages.

In 2016 there were 222 million people with driver's licenses, which doesn't account for those that drive despite not having one, nor the fact that cars are constantly in use.

55 million people own guns...

3% of Americans own half the country's 265 million guns

First, that stat is not correct.....gun owners no longer answer polls from anonymous pollsters....especially after democrat news papers decided to post the names and addresses of gun owners......

And again.....cars actually put more bodies on the ground than guns do........

I gave you the actual dead people count...cars, street killing machines, kill more people every single year than guns do.

And when you use a gun, Americans use them 1,500,000 times a year to save lives.......

criminals use cars to commit their crimes......

You won't answer the questions, you just proved you are a dishonest person that hides behind stats that create a spurious argument.

I gave you actual numbers......cars kill more people every single year than guns do...that is a fact.

Give me stats on how many people kill people on purpose with their car.

Why does intent matter......cars accidentally kill 38,748 people while criminals, using guns in an illegal manner only murdered 11,004 people...

So the actual facts show that the accidental death rate with cars.....is higher than he intentional murder rate with guns...

That only supports my contention that all cars need to be banned....er.......that dangerous, street racing, killing machines need to be banned....

 

[there4eyeM]

It isn't people reacting to unnecessary violent deaths who have caused the problem, it is the mental inability to adapt an ancient concept to the present world.

Yeah I have to deal with this same issue in one of my Grad classes. People talk about the horrific things that happen in the world, like wars, and crime... and then they have this idea that if you can get all the way to a root, they think we can fix everything. Too many people have this unrealistic idea that we can get rid of wars and crime, but we can't. We never will. Greed, ego, and all kinds of issues that make man a flawed being is ingrained, and even in a perfect world where everyone had money, and housing, and anything they ever wanted, there would still be some people who will want more, and to have the power to tell other people what to do.

It gets frustrating, because one of the important things about setting goals is to set achievable ones.

The fundamental psychological condition of humans engenders neurosis, given our current socialization constraints. We know that the mind is confronted with an existential quandary of freedom/liberty. In an absolute sense, we can do whatever we like without consequence, as one day we will no longer exist and what we have done will count for nil. In a relative sense, we have emotions and attachments that imply (at least conditional) limits on 'freedom'.
Out of this neurotic atmosphere emerge those who only seek power for aggrandizement. It can take any number of forms, but in the end, power seduces the weak minded. Be it military, political, economic or simply brute physical power, these poor persons cannot resist the inclination to dominate. So, of course, any implement at hand can be used for this exercise of 'power, from a sheet of paper (which is possible to use to cut a throat) to the atom bomb.
Cars could be isolated as one of those implements.