Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[beagle9]

Your party is across the board against all social programs.

Every republican here doesn’t like being forced to fund Medicaid. It’s unconstitutional. Do you disagree?

Youre just justifying your hypocrisy. It’s ok you take benefits. It’s not ok you vote Republican

Listen, no republican is against social programs, but we are against how those program's have been abused. Now you know they've been abused and heavily used for vote buying, creating endless lifestyle's of dependency, culture's that think there is no other way to live, blight, property value destruction, crime wave's, but just blame a Republican eh ???? See this is the problem with the left, where as they think that everyone is just plain stupid. Now quit with all the ignorant bashing, and start seeking solution's for a change.

 

[beagle9]

The problem with your last claim is that the federal government hands out so much others can benefit as well. I know supervisors in industry. They tell me their food stamp people not only refuse to work more hours when asked, but get together when their new cards are out to determine which ones they keep and which ones they sell. Four people in one household can live off of two cards, so they sell the other two on the street.

When illegal immigrant children get such benefits, it's usually enough to also provide for at least one parent. It's setup that way on purpose.

Years ago when our technology is not what it is today, food stamp people had to stand in line twice, or separate their items on the belt. One set of course was paid by food stamps and the other cash items not covered by SNAP's. Today they put everything on the belt and the register separates food stamp from cash only items. First they swipe the card for their first bill and then whip out cash for their other non-essential items. People who do that should be reported to SNAP's office so they can reduce benefits based on what and how much they are paying in cash. Nobody on SNAP's should be able to own a vehicle less than three years old. I've followed some of these people to their vehicles and they stuff their items in a $35,000 or more SUV, this of course after they leave the head cashier where they purchase a bunch of lottery tickets.

HUD should not be providing housing in suburban areas. First of all they bring their crime with them, secondly is that taxpayers should not be providing suburban housing to so-called poor people. If we have to support them, we should support them in the lower rent areas of a city instead of middle-class. Of course, middle-class areas are more expensive and taxpayers who may be working and living in lower class areas are paying the bill. If government is providing such quality living, what's the point of trying to live a suburban life yourself? Government is giving you such a lifestyle there's no sense in trying to better yourself.

Now Ray, I'm not against lessoning the profiling and stereo typing of people who get benefit's, otherwise by allowing them to participate in any way that makes them and their children feel just as important in life as the next family, but what I am in agreement with you on is the catching of the abuser's, and then cutting them off from the program's if they are exploiting or abusing them. But as long as the nation keeps electing or placing bad leadership that empowers itself off of all the bull crap, then we will constantly see the nation decline in the wake of it all. First thing this nation needs to straighten out is all this bad behavior remaining hidden behind the race card or the poor pitiful me poverty card, otherwise if someone cheating is called out, then the card's are thrown in order to deflect from the issue that was considered either as bad behavior or criminal activity being found abusing the system's or program's.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

SS and MC were started in 1934 and 1965 respectfully. In 1934 job were much more physical and people’s bodies broke down starting in their 50s. Nowadays go to any company and you see people working well into their 70s… heck even construction are less strenuous on the person’s body. The trend is only going to increase. In addition, medicine is getting better and people are living longer. This reality should be recognized.

In addition it is much easier to take care of oneself and eat better and feel better at older ages.

Our safety nets need to reflect this new reality.

We needed to start slowly increasing the age a couple of decades ago.

What you can't do is stick it to the people who are already retired or within five years of retirement though to save the rest.

Grandfather all of those 60 or over on the date the new law goes into effect then increase retirement age by one year every five years until we set it again permanently at 70yo.

We also need to increase the weekly contributions by both employer and employee by a few percent on a similar schedule, say by 3% a year for five years.

Too many people are outliving their contributions which is a big part of why it's been bleeding green for several decades.

SSI should also be removed completely and a separate disability system set up to deal appropriately with those who are permanently disabled.

 

[beagle9]

We needed to start slowly increasing the age a couple of decades ago.

What you can't do is stick it to the people who are already retired or within five years of retirement though to save the rest.

Grandfather all of those 60 or over on the date the new law goes into effect then increase retirement age by one year every five years until we set it again permanently at 70yo.

We also need to increase the weekly contributions by both employer and employee by a few percent on a similar schedule, say by 3% a year for five years.

Too many people are outliving their contributions which is a big part of why it's been bleeding green for several decades.

SSI should also be removed completely and a separate disability system set up to deal appropriately with those who are permanently disabled.

Outliving their contributions eh ? You have no proof of that do you ??? The abuse needs to be removed, and viola it's miraculously fixed. Politician's who created the abuse on purpose with our hard earned tax dollars is what has ruined it for all, then we get these people that target government jobs and power for the reasons of taking that power, and using it to buy votes through give away deal's, otherwise vote for me if you want free is their famous motto now.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Outliving their contributions eh ? You have no proof of that do you ??? The abuse needs to be removed, and viola it's miraculously fixed. Politician's who created the abuse on purpose with our hard earned tax dollars is what has ruined it for all, then we get these people that target government jobs and power for the reasons of taking that power, and using it to buy votes through give away deal's, otherwise vote for me if you want free is their famous motto now.

If you draw benefits for 7 years you will outlive what you paid in over the average working lifetime of contributions.

 

[Blues Man]

If you draw benefits for 7 years you will outlive what you paid in over the average working lifetime of contributions.

Still a pittance compared to what you could have if you had control of that 12% of your lifetime income

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Still a pittance compared to what you could have if you had control of that 12% of your lifetime income

No argument there but then that's not the topic of this discussion.

If you draw an average of 1,500.00/mo from Social Security within 7 years you have exhausted what you paid into the system over your working lifetime hence the reason it's constantly bleeding money.

That same amount of money invested in an individual retirement account however earning average rates would more than triple your monthly check and last a lifetime.

 

[beagle9]

If you draw benefits for 7 years you will outlive what you paid in over the average working lifetime of contributions.

40 year's of paying in is around how much on average per week for a former employee working a lower middle class income in that span of time ? Now granted times and money have changed dramatically over the years, so what do you figure was paid in on average over 40 year's or for around that amount of time in percentages of ? Interesting.. Thanks.

Let's just say the average income was around 48,000 per year in an overall total maybe.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

40 year's of paying in is around how much on average per week for a former employee working a lower middle class income in that span of time ? Now granted times and money have changed dramatically over the years, so what do you figure was paid in on average over 40 year's or for around that amount of time in percentages of ? Interesting.. Thanks.

Let's just say the average income was around 48,000 per year in an overall total maybe.

I started with I started with 40 years at 30k which would cover those who started working in 1980 pretty well which was pretty close to median adjusted gross for that era.

 

[HaShev]

SS and MC were started in 1934 and 1965 respectfully. In 1934 job were much more physical and people’s bodies broke down starting in their 50s. Nowadays go to any company and you see people working well into their 70s… heck even construction are less strenuous on the person’s body. The trend is only going to increase. In addition, medicine is getting better and people are living longer. This reality should be recognized.

In addition it is much easier to take care of oneself and eat better and feel better at older ages.

Our safety nets need to reflect this new reality.

They raised the drinking age to 21 just a few months before I turned 18, so I have been anticipating with my luck that they will raise the social security age right before I reach for my first check.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

They raised the drinking age to 21 just a few months before I turned 18, so I have been anticipating with my luck that they will raise the social security age right before I reach for my first check.

They moved it here from 18-19 a year after I turned 19 and by the time I came back from overseas the first time they snuck it up to 21.

I wasn't impressed but as an adult I realize they probably should have raised it to at least 30.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, the widow of a social security eligible individual can draw SS based on the spouses wages. My wife works and gets her own SS, however she makes less that I do. If I pass first she will draw her SS and the difference of mine bringing her total up to what mine will be. For for sample if I draw $2800 a month and she will draw $2000 a month. If I pass she will draw her $2000 + $800 from mine totaling $2800. At least that is the way I understand it.

However reading Ray's post he didn't indicate if she was married and if her spouse was eligible. If she was never married, then there is no spouse to draw from. If there was a divorce, I can only see it being more complicated.

WW

I think when a man passes and his stay at home wife survives him, there is a cut to her benefits. So if they were getting $800 a month, when he dies, she will get less. I could be wrong but it seems right that they wouldn't keep paying 1 what they were paying 2.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

SS and MC were started in 1934 and 1965 respectfully. In 1934 job were much more physical and people’s bodies broke down starting in their 50s. Nowadays go to any company and you see people working well into their 70s… heck even construction are less strenuous on the person’s body. The trend is only going to increase. In addition, medicine is getting better and people are living longer. This reality should be recognized.

In addition it is much easier to take care of oneself and eat better and feel better at older ages.

Our safety nets need to reflect this new reality.

Yes, the age should be raised to 140.

 

[sealybobo]

Just Republicans? What news are you watching?

Raising the retirement age would only be good for certain people. However people that do manual labor, not so much. I can't see a 69 year old climbing up three flights of ladder with a 30 lbs bundle of shingles on his shoulders taking it up to the roofers, or a 68 year old guy carrying clamps of bricks to the bricklayers. Many of those people end up not being able to make it to retirement at 67. If they raised the age, it would only put more people on disability since physically intense jobs wears down the body much quicker than a guy who's heaviest lifting is his briefcase a couple times a day.

Then stop voting Republican you dumb fuck! Ask any Republican on USMB they say to save the program we need to make cuts and raise the retirement age. And they say people are living longer. Back when we made retirement 65, people weren't living as long as they are now.

And see, you can only think personally. Because you do manual labor, you think there should be an exception for blue collar. Fuck that. I can't see the computer anymore. My carpo tunnel hands hurt. Waaaah! So even an inside sales guy doesn't want to have to work when he's 69 fucking years old.

Tell your Republican pals they are wrong next time we are having a discussion on raising the retirement age. Stop being a hypocrite. Stop going along with a party that hates giving you disability checks. YOU should get an inside sales job. YOU could be a cashier. Or a greeter at Walmart. Or your family should take care of you. Or your church or a charity. But not US Tax payers.

And I love it how you are ok with people who really need it, you just don't like all the abuse of the program. You don't like fakers getting it. Well Ray, a lot of people would think you are a faker.

Do you know who you are? You are the black person paying for food with foodstamps while driving a Cadillac. That's who you are Ray!!!! Holy shit it just dawned on me. Republicans can't stand to see someone with a Cadillac paying for food with foodstamps. That's you Ray my boy. Only instead of a Cadillac you have rental properties.

 

[sealybobo]

There are problems with the typically republican objections, people getting benefits that don't need them, government waste, and illegal immigrants getting them. Let's take a look at these objections.

• People getting benefits they don't need - How do you determine who needs them? Are you going station the SNAP police at all grocery stores to investigate them? Are you going require state social workers to validate citizenship before issuing TANF emergency checks, for food or housing for a mother and 3 kids on the street?
• Government Waste - This of course occurs in business but to a lesser extent. The biggest cost is undoubtable the government employees. However, most of the employee cost is in those determining eligibility and auditing which is required by law.
• Lastly, we have illegal immigrants. Of course you know that it is illegal for illegal immigrants to receive federal benefits. However, what you might not know is that some states are allowed to give benefits to illegal immigrants provided they do not bill the feds. Legal residents are allowed by law to receive benefits and even illegal immigrants that request a hearing to determine status may receive benefits until that status is determined which can take months or years. Children of illegal immigrants born in the US being citizens and are entitled to benefits. Children that are in the country illegally should not receive benefits but practically every state has laws that protect children without regard to immigration status. So legal or not they going to school and they are going to receive benefits. Eliminating illegal immigrant use of benefits would require law changes in almost all states plus congress. Also to enforced the laws it would take more employees checking citizenship status, and auditing applications, and auditing funds received.

Good post. I pointed out to Ray that him being on disability while also running his little rental property business is similar to the person who has a Cadillac but it paying for food with food stamps. Republicans like to stand in line behind people like Ray and judge them when it's none of their business.

I don't mind Ray getting disability. I mind him voting Republican while justifying him being on disability. To me, he sounds like someone who could work. Maybe not physical labor but he sounds smart enough to do an internet support type job rather than be sucking on uncle sams tits.

 

[sealybobo]

Listen, no republican is against social programs, but we are against how those program's have been abused. Now you know they've been abused and heavily used for vote buying, creating endless lifestyle's of dependency, culture's that think there is no other way to live, blight, property value destruction, crime wave's, but just blame a Republican eh ???? See this is the problem with the left, where as they think that everyone is just plain stupid. Now quit with all the ignorant bashing, and start seeking solution's for a change.

Yea, for example the woman in line who is paying for food with foodstamps while driving a Lincoln or Cadillac. Right? This seems to be the classic example Republicans use when they talk about people abusing the system.

Ok, what about Ray? Ray has rental properties. Ray can find an internet job. Clearly he can type. He's on USMB all day typing the fuck away. Clearly Ray is abusing the system right?

 

[Mr Natural]

Good post. I pointed out to Ray that him being on disability while also running his little rental property business is similar to the person who has a Cadillac but it paying for food with food stamps. Republicans like to stand in line behind people like Ray and judge them when it's none of their business.

I don't mind Ray getting disability. I mind him voting Republican while justifying him being on disability. To me, he sounds like someone who could work. Maybe not physical labor but he sounds smart enough to do an internet support type job rather than be sucking on uncle sams tits.

Maybe he's one of those "socialism for me but not for thee" types.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Maybe he's one of those "socialism for me but not for thee" types.

No, I'm one of those smart enough to understand the difference between "socialism" and social programs.

 

[Mr Natural]

No, I'm one of those smart enough to understand the difference between "socialism" and social programs.

You are correct!

Liberals have Socialism.

Conservatives have Social Programs.

Everybody see the difference?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yea, for example the woman in line who is paying for food with foodstamps while driving a Lincoln or Cadillac. Right? This seems to be the classic example Republicans use when they talk about people abusing the system.

Ok, what about Ray? Ray has rental properties. Ray can find an internet job. Clearly he can type. He's on USMB all day typing the fuck away. Clearly Ray is abusing the system right?

Ooooo, such a rare talent. I can type. I can use the internet. I'm sure there are thousands of jobs for people with such rare skills probably paying 50K a year or more. So I'll tell you what slick, why don't you show me some of these jobs that would hire a 61 year old with no experience.