Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[beagle9]

Yea, for example the woman in line who is paying for food with foodstamps while driving a Lincoln or Cadillac. Right? This seems to be the classic example Republicans use when they talk about people abusing the system.

Ok, what about Ray? Ray has rental properties. Ray can find an internet job. Clearly he can type. He's on USMB all day typing the fuck away. Clearly Ray is abusing the system right?

Ray has stage 4 cancer right ? Enough said about Ray, now go find another one you think might be free loading as an example, but yet can still work. You just want to attack the messenger, so you attempt to attack Ray.

 

[sealybobo]

Ray has stage 4 cancer right ? Enough said about Ray, now go find another one you think might be free loading as an example, but yet can still work. You just want to attack the messenger, so you attempt to attack Ray.

Yea I can't argue with someone dying of cancer.

To be honest, even if it was because he had such a bad back he can't truck drive anymore, I would still be okay with him going on disability. Republicans would say go back to school and get training in something you can do from home or sitting at a desk.

Unfortunately Republicans have zero empathy until it's happening to them. Remember the Reagan's were against stem cell until Ronny got Alzheimers then suddenly Nancy was okay with stem cell research. Well we shouldn't have to wait for bad things to happen to Republicans before they get it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well at least you could admit the program was a good idea and whenever you hear your buddies trashing these programs, stick up for them.

And your last paragraph sounds a lot like what all the blue collar workers were saying in the 2000's when all their jobs were going overseas. Or you sound like me arguing with them when they told me those people were just going to have to go out and find a better job when we all knew better jobs just don't exist for guys like that. If you send their high paying union job overseas, no chance that person is going to find a job that pays as well. You guys didn't care that they had to settle for jobs beneath them. And disability wasn't an option for them.

ALTHOUGH, here is something you may find interesting. After the Great Recession of 2009, the number of people who filed for disability skyrocketed. Many were people like you. They could work but it's going to be minimum wage jobs and so instead they took whatever was ailing them and went to their doctors to say they could no longer work. Some it worked some they declined. The point is those workers would have kept on working if they would have been able to keep their good paying jobs. But when they lost them, suddenly that back problem they had became much worse.

I have always said that you need to have a profession to make a decent wage today. Nobody is going to pay you 50K a year and great benefits to turn nuts onto bolts. Non-skilled labor left the country or was replaced by automation. I still believe (for those complaining about pay) you need to have a trade or profession of some kind. It's why I got into trucking. I was going nowhere working non-skilled jobs. I needed a skill that many people don't have that was always in demand.

So I'm not asking anybody to do something I wouldn't do myself. I didn't cry that my non-skilled job didn't pay enough, I learned how to do something that did pay enough.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yea I can't argue with someone dying of cancer.

To be honest, even if it was because he had such a bad back he can't truck drive anymore, I would still be okay with him going on disability. Republicans would say go back to school and get training in something you can do from home or sitting at a desk.

Unfortunately Republicans have zero empathy until it's happening to them. Remember the Reagan's were against stem cell until Ronny got Alzheimers then suddenly Nancy was okay with stem cell research. Well we shouldn't have to wait for bad things to happen to Republicans before they get it.

I don't know any Republican that said get training to stay at home or work from a desk. We did say acquire a skill that did pay a decent wage. It could be plumbing, HVAC, welding, electrician, construction, just a number of things people can get training to do, and you won't have a $100,000 loan to payoff either.

 

[Aldo Raine]

I think Republicans here (and elsewhere) have been pretty clear on where we stand. No, I can't survive on a minimum wage job, not many can. I didn't "find some doctor" to get me out of work. Every year I had to take a physical by a government doctor, and it's the government doctor that told me I could no longer drive. It wasn't a choice of mine.

Like I said, go out and find me one of these phantom jobs in my area you talk about making a living wage. You sound just like JoeB. I told him to do the same and he couldn't come up with one either. They don't exist, especially for a person my age.

Now I'll appeal to your ignorance: Rental property is not big money. In fact some years I took a loss. After all the bills are paid, there is only a few grand left for profit most years. I never made more than $5,000 after everything was said and done and it's a lot of work. The only real advantage is I live for free since my tenants (through rent) pay all the bills.

So yes, I'm collecting disability. Given the fact I'm dying of cancer, it would be stupid to work until I finally drop dead. I only have a few years left IF chemo is successful.

Wow Ray, sorry to here about you having cancer. Watched my mother die from it 30 years ago n my father in law last year. My prayers are with you even though we have disagreed on just about everything.
MAGA

 

[sealybobo]

Wow Ray, sorry to here about you having cancer. Watched my mother die from it 30 years ago n my father in law last year. My prayers are with you even though we have disagreed on just about everything.
MAGA

NPR is doing this really cool show I heard about last night. In the past they would put a grandfather and grandson together to tell a story, or something like that. Really beautiful touching stuff. So they got a new idea. Put a Democrat and Republican together. Or a white conservative with a black liberal. Or whoever. Two opposing sides. Suddenly the hate and division go away. Suddenly two enemies politically end up socially friends and they start to see the other persons side.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wow Ray, sorry to here about you having cancer. Watched my mother die from it 30 years ago n my father in law last year. My prayers are with you even though we have disagreed on just about everything.
MAGA

Hey, disagreeing is why we come here. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. I'm going to be needing them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

NPR is doing this really cool show I heard about last night. In the past they would put a grandfather and grandson together to tell a story, or something like that. Really beautiful touching stuff. So they got a new idea. Put a Democrat and Republican together. Or a white conservative with a black liberal. Or whoever. Two opposing sides. Suddenly the hate and division go away. Suddenly two enemies politically end up socially friends and they start to see the other persons side.

And that's the way it should be. My father went left after he retired. We argue about politics all the time, but at the end of the night, it's all hugs.

I belonged to a local political group. Like USMB, we would go back and forth. We decided to meet at a bar in person. It was a blast. Good people on both sides. The only people that didn't show up were the keyboard commandos and those flinging personal insults. As for the rest of us, we had a great time talking in person.

 

[sealybobo]

There are Republicans who are against social programs, but they are a very minority of the party. As you stated, Republicans are for fixing these programs instead, but you get these people that feel if you're against the status quo, you must be against all social programs.

Wake up Ray.

Republicans have long focused their welfare state rollbacks on programs targeted to the poor.

In the early 1960s, Ronald Reagan warned that if Medicare was enacted, “behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. Until, one day, as Norman Thomas said, we will awake to find that we have socialism.”

On July 30, 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law legislation that established the Medicare and Medicaid programs. For 50 years, these programs have been protecting the health and well-being of millions of American families, saving lives, and improving the economic security of our nation.

So Reagan didn't even want you to have Medicaid Ray. Guys like me did. Liberals. Democrats. You're welcome.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wake up Ray.

Republicans have long focused their welfare state rollbacks on programs targeted to the poor.

In the early 1960s, Ronald Reagan warned that if Medicare was enacted, “behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. Until, one day, as Norman Thomas said, we will awake to find that we have socialism.”

On July 30, 1965, President Lyndon B. Johnson signed into law legislation that established the Medicare and Medicaid programs. For 50 years, these programs have been protecting the health and well-being of millions of American families, saving lives, and improving the economic security of our nation.

So Reagan didn't even want you to have Medicaid Ray. Guys like me did. Liberals. Democrats. You're welcome.

You mean Ronald Reagan? Ronald Reagan the Democrat back then?

Social programs are fine if they are created by the state. It's the way our founders intended. But once the feds create them, it gives them more power.

Now that SS and Medicare are going broke, it puts us in a terrible situation in this country. How do we keep these programs alive with not enough money? We planned on these programs being there all of our lives!

If Medicare was not created, if SS was not created, we would have had to find another backup in the private market.

Social Security sends out pamphlets every couple years or so. It shows all the money you and your employers contributed throughout the years, and what it would be paying you if you retired that day. Next time they do that, take that pamphlet to a reputable investment company, and ask them what you'd be worth today had all your money been invested in a conservative growth account all those years. You'd probably shit yourself.

We just hit the 30 trillion dollar mark of debt, much of it because of social programs.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

And where would we be today if we only listened to Madison back then?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There's only one USMB member I would smack like Will smacked Chris Rock and that's unkotare.

Now that we can agree on. I don't care for him much myself.

 

[sealybobo]

You mean Ronald Reagan? Ronald Reagan the Democrat back then?

Social programs are fine if they are created by the state. It's the way our founders intended. But once the feds create them, it gives them more power.

Now that SS and Medicare are going broke, it puts us in a terrible situation in this country. How do we keep these programs alive with not enough money? We planned on these programs being there all of our lives!

If Medicare was not created, if SS was not created, we would have had to find another backup in the private market.

Social Security sends out pamphlets every couple years or so. It shows all the money you and your employers contributed throughout the years, and what it would be paying you if you retired that day. Next time they do that, take that pamphlet to a reputable investment company, and ask them what you'd be worth today had all your money been invested in a conservative growth account all those years. You'd probably shit yourself.

We just hit the 30 trillion dollar mark of debt, much of it because of social programs.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, that grants Congress the right of expending on articles of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
James Madison, annals of Congress, 1794

And where would we be today if we only listened to Madison back then?

If Reagan was such a Democrat, how come Republicans still worship him? What did they like about that Democrat?

Back then we warned you all that Reagan's policies were going to ruin things down the road. He invented NAFTA, broke unions, started hiring illegals, started cutting taxes on the rich, making cuts to social security.

If he was such a Democrat how come I hate him and you guys love him?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If Reagan was such a Democrat, how come Republicans still worship him? What did they like about that Democrat?

Back then we warned you all that Reagan's policies were going to ruin things down the road. He invented NAFTA, broke unions, started hiring illegals, started cutting taxes on the rich, making cuts to social security.

If he was such a Democrat how come I hate him and you guys love him?

Ronald Reagan was a Democrat and switched parties saying "I'm not leaving the party, the party has left me." Believe it or not, he was once head of the actors union. When the Democrat party turned left, Reagan turned right.

Amid the worst recession of our lifetime (I don't care what people say about Obama's recession, I lived through both and Reagan's was much worse.) he seen our companies moving overseas by the droves. He decided to try and stop the bleeding by lowering taxes. It worked. Ronald Reagan only attacked one union, and that was the Air Traffic Control union because they were not allowed by law to strike, but did it anyway.

So what illegals did Reagan hire? What kind of jobs did he give them? What Reagan did was grant amnesty to illegals (about one million) in exchange for a much more secure border. Reagan lived up to his end of the bargain, but the Democrats stabbed him in the back. Looking back Reagan said it was the worst decision he ever made during his two terms in office. As for NAFTA, that was only an idea of Reagan's. It wasn't created until George HW Bush became President and then signed into law by Bill Clinton.

 

[sealybobo]

Ronald Reagan was a Democrat and switched parties saying "I'm not leaving the party, the party has left me." Believe it or not, he was once head of the actors union. When the Democrat party turned left, Reagan turned right.

Amid the worst recession of our lifetime (I don't care what people say about Obama's recession, I lived through both and Reagan's was much worse.) he seen our companies moving overseas by the droves. He decided to try and stop the bleeding by lowering taxes. It worked. Ronald Reagan only attacked one union, and that was the Air Traffic Control union because they were not allowed by law to strike, but did it anyway.

So what illegals did Reagan hire? What kind of jobs did he give them? What Reagan did was grant amnesty to illegals (about one million) in exchange for a much more secure border. Reagan lived up to his end of the bargain, but the Democrats stabbed him in the back. Looking back Reagan said it was the worst decision he ever made during his two terms in office. As for NAFTA, that was only an idea of Reagan's. It wasn't created until George HW Bush became President and then signed into law by Bill Clinton.

Why did he leave the Democratic party Ray? Because of MEDICARE!!!! The very program you are relying on.

Let's not imagine a country without medicare. You guys claim you'd have more money than you know what to do with if the government didn't force you to put that money away or for you to buy into that program. You're kidding yourselves. You'd be broke and your family would have to pay for that medicine you are on. And they'd pay a fortune.

Reagan was an asshole. Always was. If he was a Democrat, so were the KKK before the Civil Rights. He was a Democrat before Medicare. Sounds to me like he hated that social program that you are on so much he switched parties. Don't know how else to take it.

He often said, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me." When the legislation that would become Medicare was introduced in 1961, he created a recording for the American Medical Association (AMA) warning that such legislation would mean the end of freedom in America.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why did he leave the Democratic party Ray? Because of MEDICARE!!!! The very program you are relying on.

Let's not imagine a country without medicare. You guys claim you'd have more money than you know what to do with if the government didn't force you to put that money away or for you to buy into that program. You're kidding yourselves. You'd be broke and your family would have to pay for that medicine you are on. And they'd pay a fortune.

Reagan was an asshole. Always was. If he was a Democrat, so were the KKK before the Civil Rights. He was a Democrat before Medicare. Sounds to me like he hated that social program that you are on so much he switched parties. Don't know how else to take it.

He often said, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me." When the legislation that would become Medicare was introduced in 1961, he created a recording for the American Medical Association (AMA) warning that such legislation would mean the end of freedom in America.

I don't recall him saying anything like that but if he did, he wasn't too far off.

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law. - The World from PRX

As the health care debate rages in the US, Tokyo lawmakers set a maximum waist size. Are you too fat for Japan?

theworld.org

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Obese people will be routinely refused operations across the NHS, health service bosses have warned, after one authority said it would limit procedures on an unprecedented scale.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Medicare is for the elderly right now, but what if everybody had Medicare? Then the politicians would have total control over the people. They could tell you how much you're allowed to weigh, what you can eat, what you can drink, what you can or cannot smoke. The list would be endless since most everything we do has some association with our health. And don't look at those articles I posted and say that won't happen here. The Supreme Court just struck down Dementia's plans to force companies over 100 employees to take a vaccine they may not want or need. They also said he can force medical institutions into his plan. Why? Because many of the patients are under a government plan like Medicare and Medicaid. In other words if we had an entirely government healthcare plan like Medicare in place, we could very well find ourselves at the mercy of our politicians forcing us to take medication against our will. So was Reagan wrong?

I have no idea how you hold the belief that if government doesn't provide X, there is no other way to get it. The private market has proven itself to be much more competent than our government in handling such matters. Granted government would have to oversee those programs by making sure companies being paid are legit, making sure we have no choice but to pay into them, but they would handle it much better.

 

[HaShev]

They moved it here from 18-19 a year after I turned 19 and by the time I came back from overseas the first time they snuck it up to 21.

I wasn't impressed but as an adult I realize they probably should have raised it to at least 30.

Agree I was never ready for that responsibility nor restraint at that age, and realized it enough at about 25 y. o. to become a non drinker by choice, for the rest of my life.

 

[beagle9]

NPR is doing this really cool show I heard about last night. In the past they would put a grandfather and grandson together to tell a story, or something like that. Really beautiful touching stuff. So they got a new idea. Put a Democrat and Republican together. Or a white conservative with a black liberal. Or whoever. Two opposing sides. Suddenly the hate and division go away. Suddenly two enemies politically end up socially friends and they start to see the other persons side.

Funny things happen when the camera's turn on, but once the opposing sides return to their perspective corner's, they come out fighting again. Clean up the issues, and then peace and harmony will be a natural occurrence on it's own.

 

[sealybobo]

Funny things happen when the camera's turn on, but once the opposing sides return to their perspective corner's, they come out fighting again. Clean up the issues, and then peace and harmony will be a natural occurrence on it's own.

We should tell the politicians to STOP. RESET. Here are our list of demands.

1. The middle class doing better. More better jobs. If you are going to give tax breaks, give them to companies who open up in or at least near our highest poverty areas. Coal country, Detroit, etc.

2. Secure that border. We don't need a wall. Patrol it. Deport them. Confront Mexico and the south American countries who are so dysfunctional

3. Cut spending wherever there is waste and we know there is plenty of it.

4. Give back the money you borrowed from Social Security

5. Healthcare needs to be affordable. Health problems should not bankrupt anyone. That's why we all pay for insurance. Of course for profit companies are going to want to be cheap. Stop it. You're in the business of curing the sick.

What else?

 

[dblack]

Clean up the issues, and then peace and harmony will be a natural occurrence on it's own.

The key is to reduce the power of each "side" to dictate to the other. Less to argue about, less division and acrimony.

 

[22lcidw]

Yea I can't argue with someone dying of cancer.

To be honest, even if it was because he had such a bad back he can't truck drive anymore, I would still be okay with him going on disability. Republicans would say go back to school and get training in something you can do from home or sitting at a desk.

Unfortunately Republicans have zero empathy until it's happening to them. Remember the Reagan's were against stem cell until Ronny got Alzheimers then suddenly Nancy was okay with stem cell research. Well we shouldn't have to wait for bad things to happen to Republicans before they get it.

The issue is not stem cells being applied to patients. It is should have it been started. There would be no questions and accusations than. Especially coming from unborn babies plucked from an abundance of indifferent women. To easy to have a corrupted system from a corrupted system.