SHould the mandate or the entire bill go?

[Sarah G]

Neither.

 

[Sarah G]

how I wish they would stop lying all the time

That's not going to happen.

 

[RDD_1210]

I can go better than the bill. I only need to point to history and point out the Welfare System. Once in, it is damned near impossible to escape. That is by liberal design.

As for Obamacare. Once it takes effect there are NO private insurance companies. They are puppets of the government that must offer exactly what the government tells them to offer i.e. abortion services and at the price they are commanded to offer those services at.

The insurance companies must meet strict guidelines in regards to what they offer... they are soon to be puppets of the U.S. Government.

And if you have no choice in whether or not you purchase insurance or what policies to buy, then you HAVE NO WAY OUT.

Immie

But you're purchasing insurance from private companies, not the government. Are you saying that because there are laws regulating those companies, that makes you a slave to the government? Immie, I've got news for you...theres no business in America that doesn't have some sort of law or regulation governing it. If that's what you consider being "enslaved by the government" then you've been a slave for your entire life and this law is nothing new. You need to take off your tinfoil hat.

No, I am saying that those companies are now owned by the U.S. Government. They are puppets being ALLOWED to offer government services. They are no longer free enterprises. This is not simply regulations. This is downright ownership to the point where they are told what products to offer and at what price.

Airlines, automobile manufacturers and oil companies are regulated. Under Obamacare Health Insurance is a government agency.

Immie

Immie, I hate to break it to you, but what you believe is just outright incorrect. If you want to point to anything in the legislation that says otherwise, then we can talk. But I know you wont because it's not there.

 

[Immanuel]

But you're purchasing insurance from private companies, not the government. Are you saying that because there are laws regulating those companies, that makes you a slave to the government? Immie, I've got news for you...theres no business in America that doesn't have some sort of law or regulation governing it. If that's what you consider being "enslaved by the government" then you've been a slave for your entire life and this law is nothing new. You need to take off your tinfoil hat.

No, I am saying that those companies are now owned by the U.S. Government. They are puppets being ALLOWED to offer government services. They are no longer free enterprises. This is not simply regulations. This is downright ownership to the point where they are told what products to offer and at what price.

Airlines, automobile manufacturers and oil companies are regulated. Under Obamacare Health Insurance is a government agency.

Immie

Immie, I hate to break it to you, but what you believe is just outright incorrect. If you want to point to anything in the legislation that says otherwise, then we can talk. But I know you wont because it's not there.

Does it not state specifically that for an insurance company to be qualified to sell insurance they must offer approved plans? Approved = government puppet.

Title I Part I Sections 1301-1304

http://www.healthcare.gov/law/resources/authorities/title/i-quality-affordable-health-care.pdf

Essentially it states "you will do as we tell you to do or you will not sell insurance in OUR United States of America".

By the way, you do realize that effective 2013 (I believe or it may be 2014) that all plans must be "qualified"?

Under the ACA all health insurance companies are puppets of the U.S. Government and nothing more!

Qualified means offer the options we tell you to offer at the price we tell you to offer it or you do not do business period. That means that Blue Cross/Blue Shield won't be able to offer plans that are essentially 20% below the market in order to compete because the government has mandated what they will charge in order to be a member of the exchange pool.

Immie

 

[The T]

Neither.

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

 

[Sarah G]

Neither.

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

 

[Immanuel]

Neither.

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

I honestly cannot believe with the history of the failures of the U.S. Government Social Programs that anyone with brains, and I put you in that category (partisan but by no means stupid) would support allowing the government further control of our lives.

I can understand TM taking part in this train wreck, but not you and RDD.

Immie

 

[Sarah G]

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

I honestly cannot believe with the history of the failures of the U.S. Government Social Programs that anyone with brains, and I put you in that category (partisan but by no means stupid) would support allowing the government further control of our lives.

I can understand TM taking part in this train wreck, but not you and RDD.

Immie

Good thing I don't look for your opinion before I post anything.

 

[Immanuel]

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

I honestly cannot believe with the history of the failures of the U.S. Government Social Programs that anyone with brains, and I put you in that category (partisan but by no means stupid) would support allowing the government further control of our lives.

I can understand TM taking part in this train wreck, but not you and RDD.

Immie

Good thing I don't look for your opinion before I post anything.

What you disagree with what I think about you?

Immie

 

[Sarah G]

I honestly cannot believe with the history of the failures of the U.S. Government Social Programs that anyone with brains, and I put you in that category (partisan but by no means stupid) would support allowing the government further control of our lives.

I can understand TM taking part in this train wreck, but not you and RDD.

Immie

Good thing I don't look for your opinion before I post anything.

What you disagree with what I think about you?

Immie

No, that part is true.

 

[The T]

Neither.

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

So Gubmint has to take over? The same Gubmint is so efficient that anything they tell you of cost has through history shown to be double or triple what they stated initially?

THAT Gubmint?

YOU went in the tank head first, didn't you?

 

[Immanuel]

Good thing I don't look for your opinion before I post anything.

What you disagree with what I think about you?

Immie

No, that part is true.

Lol

I'm glad you think so.

The good thing is though from what I have been reading here on the site, it seems the SCOTUS agrees with me about the other part. On the other hand, politics is politics, and despite the right wing optimism, with me being such a pessimist, I would not be surprised to find out the justices went right along with both parties in regards to screwing over America.

I only wish that going back to the old way of doing business would be sufficient to improve things over all. It really does not do that, but then it does keep things from getting exponentially worse.

Immie

 

[Sarah G]

So just let it go and have the nanny state take over?

Liberty of the individual be damned.

That isn't going to happen. A lot more people will be banckrupted if we stay with the insurance company's plans. We cannot let corporate America take over, it will be chaos.

So Gubmint has to take over? The same Gubmint is so efficient that anything they tell you of cost has through history shown to be double or triple what they stated initially?

THAT Gubmint?

YOU went in the tank head first, didn't you?

Healthcare needs to be reformed. What you and repubs have decided to do is just allow the insurance companies continue unbridaled until there is nothing out there but corporate control.

There will not be government control if everyone in congress would get serious about this.

 

[JoeB131]

From the arguments it sure looks like the mandate part of Obamacare is toast. The question was argued on the last day whether the entire bill or just that part of it should be struck down. Justice Ginsburg argued that striking the entire bill would be a radical exercise in judicial power. Justice Scalia argued that not striking the entire bill would be an exercise in judicial power.
I am inclined to agree with Scalia (surprise). Since so much of the bill hinges on the mandate leaving any part of it would mean essentially the justices deciding what should or shouldn't be the law. Which is really Congress' role. Better to nix the whole thing and let Congress start over.

So you think the Insurance Companies should be allowed to let sick kids die by calling their illnesses "pre-existing conditions"?

You go with that. Really, that's going to work out well for you.

If the SCOTUS strikes this down by a 5-4 vote, Republicans for, Democrats against, this will not be seen as anything but a political move, even more political than Gore v. Bush.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

bullshit , they can determine one part unconstitutional and strike jsut it.
They wont, they will strike it all and then the American people will have to face being dumped for getting sick, not being able to buy insurance because they are already sick and milllions of young people will have nothing but emergency rooms as medical care again.


We will go back to the worst care per capita in the western world again and the right will be soooooooo happy

That's not how it works according to the rules and precedent TM.

 

[Immanuel]

bullshit , they can determine one part unconstitutional and strike jsut it.
They wont, they will strike it all and then the American people will have to face being dumped for getting sick, not being able to buy insurance because they are already sick and milllions of young people will have nothing but emergency rooms as medical care again.


We will go back to the worst care per capita in the western world again and the right will be soooooooo happy

That's not how it works according to the rules and precedent TM.

You don't understand, rules don't matter to TM. Unless they are her rules telling you what you can or can't do.

Immie

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

Go back and read the 10 pages of the thread prior to this post, you will see several people offering up "better" ideas.

One example was my own. Making a small, targeted bill that only addresses pre-existing conditions and the problems that people with them have.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If you want a system like they have in Socialist countrys, its not gonna happen. Too many freeloaders will bankrupt any health care program.

Healthcare in it's current forn will bankrupt the USA within 20 years.
It will be eating the majority of the GDP.

and obamacare will add more to the debt faster than our current system.....you can't fix something that is broken with an even more broken part

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Immie, everything you believe just isn't true. Can you point to anything in the actual bill that supports what you say, that once you receive assistance you can never get away from it?

I can go better than the bill. I only need to point to history and point out the Welfare System. Once in, it is damned near impossible to escape. That is by liberal design.

As for Obamacare. Once it takes effect there are NO private insurance companies. They are puppets of the government that must offer exactly what the government tells them to offer i.e. abortion services and at the price they are commanded to offer those services at.

The insurance companies must meet strict guidelines in regards to what they offer... they are soon to be puppets of the U.S. Government.

And if you have no choice in whether or not you purchase insurance or what policies to buy, then you HAVE NO WAY OUT.

Immie

But you're purchasing insurance from private companies, not the government. Are you saying that because there are laws regulating those companies, that makes you a slave to the government? Immie, I've got news for you...theres no business in America that doesn't have some sort of law or regulation governing it. If that's what you consider being "enslaved by the government" then you've been a slave for your entire life and this law is nothing new. You need to take off your tinfoil hat.

Do you not see a problem with the federal government mandating an individual citizen, by virtue of being a citizen, must buy a product from a private company?

That is a VAST overreach of the federal governments authority over individual liberty.