Should State Unions Be Stronger Than a State government?

[konradv]

When does the taxpayer get a seat at the bargaining table with those hoodlums?

Didn't the taxpayers vote in those hoodlums?

No, they don't have any say in voting the unions in or out....But the bureaucrats have a huge say in who their alleged "negotiators" will be.

Out in the real world, we call this collusion.

You weren't specific about WHICH set of hoodlums you were talking!!!

 

[AmericanFirst]

And the state government's aren't? The government is the biggest culprit for states going bankrupt-not unions.

Then, who's taxes are paying for the unfunded benefit and pension contracts? Not the unions. I never said that it was the unions alone that are doing it, but "helping" to do it. There are cuts going on throughout state budgets, but it seems the unions are "untouchable"?

Only to those who choose to be willfully misinformed. The fact is that unions are more than willing to compromise but politicians like the governor of wisconsin are exploiting a bad economy to try to lay the blame at the feet of only the unions that he deems to be bad as he refuses to compromise.

The teachers union in wisconsin is the problem. Remember the viagra fiasco? Bust the union.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Why not just renegociate the contracts? Why eliminate ther right to collective bargaining?

I'll bet there are some ways to trim the budget without eliminating workers rights.

You are mistating the facts and you know it. The collective bargaining is not being eliminated. It is being limited to salary only and not benefit. You have to tell the truth if you want to be credible.


Let me guess. you want to Tax The evil Rich and TAx Corporations.

Can you actually prove that is the case? I haven't seen or heard anything about that so can you please substantiate your claim?? How about a link to support what you say is true?

I heard that from the begining of the debate. Where have you been? If I was the Gov. I would also make the schools make up everyday they missed to meet the fed requirement.

 

[Two Thumbs]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

Neither should be so large that it has an overt affect on the people around it.

ex;
Miners struck in Il. their demands were so high the mine owners shut down. So the unions went to the state and made it so that all lines of work would turn a profit by hiring a miner and sending them to college for training.

for months no one could get a real job b/c miners got hired no matter what.

Then they same people that fucked over the rest of the population got re-elected, with support from the unions.

 

[Two Thumbs]

When does the taxpayer get a seat at the bargaining table with those hoodlums?

You're elected official is supposed to be looking out for everyone. But unions have a lot of bribe money and can motivate morons to vote the way they want them to vote.

 

[Meister]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

Simple-minded question in that it's a False Choice. What about approaching the bargaining table as equals?

Equals?
Unions represent a finite number of people in the state of Wi.
The government represents every person in the state of Wi.

Not quite a simple minded question.

 

[manifold]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

You'll need to define what you mean by 'stronger'.

Based on my understanding of its general definition, the question seems completely ridiculous. But I know you're not a completely ridiculous wanker so I must be missing what you're getting at with the question. Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated and met with a thoughtful reply.

 

[Meister]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

You'll need to define what you mean by 'stronger'.

Based on my understanding of its general definition, the question seems completely ridiculous. But I know you're not a completely ridiculous wanker so I must be missing what you're getting at with the question. Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated and met with a thoughtful reply.

Which entity has the upper hand at a negotiating table?

 

[manifold]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

You'll need to define what you mean by 'stronger'.

Based on my understanding of its general definition, the question seems completely ridiculous. But I know you're not a completely ridiculous wanker so I must be missing what you're getting at with the question. Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated and met with a thoughtful reply.

Which entity has the upper hand at a negotiating table?

I don't think either should necessarily have the upper hand in negotiations. Otherwise, any attempt at 'negotiating' would be a farce.

 

[drsmith1072]

Why not just renegociate the contracts? Why eliminate ther right to collective bargaining?

I'll bet there are some ways to trim the budget without eliminating workers rights.

They've already tried. The unions said NO!!!

Unions have negotiated wages to the point where companies would rather go out of country. Look at the steel industry and the auto industry. UNIONS are the problem with the loss of business stateside.

Yeah it's all the unions fault and yet what percentage of American workers belong to unions?? It's 12-13 % according to the sources I have looked at so can you prove your claim is is this just more of the usual bs rhetoric from right wing talking heads that you take for fact because it was said on tv??

 

[drsmith1072]

Then, who's taxes are paying for the unfunded benefit and pension contracts? Not the unions. I never said that it was the unions alone that are doing it, but "helping" to do it. There are cuts going on throughout state budgets, but it seems the unions are "untouchable"?

Only to those who choose to be willfully misinformed. The fact is that unions are more than willing to compromise but politicians like the governor of wisconsin are exploiting a bad economy to try to lay the blame at the feet of only the unions that he deems to be bad as he refuses to compromise.

The teachers union in wisconsin is the problem. Remember the viagra fiasco? Bust the union.

more rhetoric, imagine that. Got any substance? Furthermore how does your comment actually address what was being talked about?? He siad the unions are untouchable and yet the fact is that they are more than willing to compromise. So care to explain your comments?

 

[drsmith1072]

You are mistating the facts and you know it. The collective bargaining is not being eliminated. It is being limited to salary only and not benefit. You have to tell the truth if you want to be credible.


Let me guess. you want to Tax The evil Rich and TAx Corporations.

Can you actually prove that is the case? I haven't seen or heard anything about that so can you please substantiate your claim?? How about a link to support what you say is true?

I heard that from the begining of the debate. Where have you been? If I was the Gov. I would also make the schools make up everyday they missed to meet the fed requirement.

Oh so you heard it so that must mean that it's true?? Thanks for clearing that up. However, do you have any proof??

 

[Charles_Main]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

Should a union that Represents only a Tiny % of the Population be more powerful than the Elected Representatives of all the People of the State?

You really have to ask?

 

[drsmith1072]

When does the taxpayer get a seat at the bargaining table with those hoodlums?

You're elected official is supposed to be looking out for everyone. But unions have a lot of bribe money and can motivate morons to vote the way they want them to vote.

wow listen to the rhetoric and yet the elected official in the instance of wisconsin is apparenlty beholden to the koch brothers and their money. Imagine that, there is an opposing side of your view. LOL

 

[konradv]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

Simple-minded question in that it's a False Choice. What about approaching the bargaining table as equals?

Equals?
Unions represent a finite number of people in the state of Wi.
The government represents every person in the state of Wi.

Not quite a simple minded question.

It doesn't matter if it were only one person. If you're talking inequality, you're talking unAmerican in my book.

 

[Charles_Main]

They've already tried. The unions said NO!!!

Unions have negotiated wages to the point where companies would rather go out of country. Look at the steel industry and the auto industry. UNIONS are the problem with the loss of business stateside.

Yeah it's all the unions fault and yet what percentage of American workers belong to unions?? It's 12-13 % according to the sources I have looked at so can you prove your claim is is this just more of the usual bs rhetoric from right wing talking heads that you take for fact because it was said on tv??

The Total % of Workers in Unions is meaningless to what he is claiming. the Number is about 19% if you look at all workers in every Industry in America. If you look at individual Industries you can find ones like the Auto Industry where the % is much much higher.

The Steel Industry and the Auto industry's in America were and are VERY unionized, and have crumbled and sent jobs overseas in part to escape Union Wages. The Effect of over reaching Unions, who care little about the Profitability of the Industries they working in, Leads to American Industries Unable to compete in the Global Market Place, so Rather than try they simply move operations overseas or shut them down all together.

Look no further than the near total loss of Manufacturing jobs in America for proof of that Fact.

 

[konradv]

A simple question:
Should state unions be stronger than a state government?
Why?

Should a union that Represents only a Tiny % of the Population be more powerful than the Elected Representatives of all the People of the State?

You really have to ask?

What if 51% of the people decided you'd make a good slave?

 

[drsmith1072]

Unions have negotiated wages to the point where companies would rather go out of country. Look at the steel industry and the auto industry. UNIONS are the problem with the loss of business stateside.

Yeah it's all the unions fault and yet what percentage of American workers belong to unions?? It's 12-13 % according to the sources I have looked at so can you prove your claim is is this just more of the usual bs rhetoric from right wing talking heads that you take for fact because it was said on tv??

The Total % of Workers in Unions is meaningless to what he is claiming.

Really?? How is it meaningless?? He said that the unions were the reason jobs left the country but they don't even represent a majority of the workers in this country so how can they be the only cause??

the Number is about 19% if you look at all workers in every Industry in America.

It was in between 12 and 13 % on the two sources i looked at that and they were talking about the entire workforce.

If you look at individual Industries you can find ones like the Auto Industry where the % is much much higher.

point??

The Steel Industry and the Auto industry's in America were and are VERY unionized, and have crumbled and sent jobs overseas in part to escape Union Wages. The Effect of over reaching Unions, who care little about the Profitability of the Industries they working in, Leads to American Industries Unable to compete in the Global Market Place, so Rather than try they simply move operations overseas or shut them down all together.

Look no further than the near total loss of Manufacturing jobs in America for proof of that Fact.

yeah it is a fact that America lost manufacturing jobs but to claim it's all to blame on unions is nothing but opinion. If you want to talk facts then compare the actual wage and benefits of those who get paid to do those overseas jobs to what would be considered a living wage here in the states. Does it even meet that minimal standard?? What about worker protections and safety?? Oh and nvm the fact that now we have technology that can do several of the jobs that workers used to do.
You blame the unions and yet in most instances it would appear that companies took jobs over seas to avoid American wages and workers as well as to get out of paying taxes while keeping all of the benefits of being an American company.

So why claim that only unions are to blame when there are so many other factors that contribute to and are the more likely reasons behind it considnering that unions only play such a minor role in the entire workforce?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

No Unions in the Public Sector. I've been saying this for many years. Good to see more people finally catching on. Unions should not have ever been allowed in Government. Look what these Teachers have done in Wisconsin. They have shut down many schools all across Wisconsin. They were simply given too much power. All Public Sector Unions need to be weakened or removed completely. They forgot that they work for the Taxpayers and not just for the Democratic Party. Time for them to go.

 

[Vast LWC]

Unions are running this country into the ground.

What we're seeing is what happens when anyone dares to stop them.

Funny then that middle-class pay keeps going down, and rich people keep getting much, much richer.

It seems to me that since Management and Executive salaries have gone up at a FAR greater rate than union salaries in the past 50 years, that it is in fact the Executives that can be blamed more for "driving this country into the ground".