Should State Unions Be Stronger Than a State government?

[Oddball]

Unions are running this country into the ground.

What we're seeing is what happens when anyone dares to stop them.

Funny then that middle-class pay keeps going down, and rich people keep getting much, much richer.

It seems to me that since Management and Executive salaries have gone up at a FAR greater rate than union salaries in the past 50 years, that it is in fact the Executives that can be blamed more for "driving this country into the ground".

And the explosion of federal and state bureaucracies, which have sucked trillions out of the private sector and produced next to nothing of value for the overall economy, since the early part of the last century has nothing at all to do with this, does it?

 

[percysunshine]

This is kind of weird. The poll results are, currently, 21-0.

Either this is an echo chamber, or liberals are embarassed at the question.

 

[Vast LWC]

And the explosion of federal and state bureaucracies, which have sucked trillions out of the private sector and produced next to nothing of value for the overall economy, since the early part of the last century has nothing at all to do with this, does it?

Corporate profits are currently at all time highs, yet they are not hiring in the US.

Instead they are hiring in Cambodia and Vietnam.

Unions or no unions, the only way Americans can compete on that pay scale level is if they get paid two dollars a day.

Meanwhile, executive pay has gone up exponentially, mostly by reaping in the savings gained by firing Americans.

Corporations have abandoned the USA, and Unions had nothing to do with it.

 

[Oddball]

Here we go again....

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Unions in Government only benefit themselves and Democrats. They **** the Taxpayer over every chance they get. Taxpayers just need to stand up and take charge. These Unions work for the Taxpayers. It's not the other way around. They just have too much power now. Unions just don't belong in Government. Hopefully more Americans are seeing this. It's time to check their power.

 

[percysunshine]

And the explosion of federal and state bureaucracies, which have sucked trillions out of the private sector and produced next to nothing of value for the overall economy, since the early part of the last century has nothing at all to do with this, does it?

Corporate profits are currently at all time highs, yet they are not hiring in the US.

Instead they are hiring in Cambodia and Vietnam...

Holy moly...they are hiring communists? We need to put a stop to that.

 

[Vast LWC]

This is kind of weird. The poll results are, currently, 21-0.

Either this is an echo chamber, or liberals are embarassed at the question.

It's a stupid question, there's no point to it. It's a matter of apples and oranges.

It's like asking "Should a glass of milk be harder than a religion?".

The only person that should be embarrassed by that question is the person asking it.

 

[Vast LWC]

Unions in Government only benefit themselves and Democrats. They **** the Taxpayer over every chance they get. Taxpayers just need to stand up and take charge. These Unions work for the Taxpayers. It's not the other way around. They just have too much power now. Unions just don't belong in Government. Hopefully more Americans are seeing this. It's time to check their power.

Let me ask you Libo, what do you think a fair salary for your kids teacher should be? Give us a round number.

 

[Meister]

This is kind of weird. The poll results are, currently, 21-0.

Either this is an echo chamber, or liberals are embarassed at the question.

It's a stupid question, there's no point to it. It's a matter of apples and oranges.

It's like asking "Should a glass of milk be harder than a religion?".

The only person that should be embarrassed by that question is the person asking it.

No, it's a fair question. The unions have given a lot of money to the democrat party that has in return empowered the unions. I mean, look at the democrats that left the state so there wouldn't be a vote, that is power for the unions.
You should be embarrassed to not be able to see it, or your not honest enough to admit it.

 

[Meister]

Unions in Government only benefit themselves and Democrats. They **** the Taxpayer over every chance they get. Taxpayers just need to stand up and take charge. These Unions work for the Taxpayers. It's not the other way around. They just have too much power now. Unions just don't belong in Government. Hopefully more Americans are seeing this. It's time to check their power.

Let me ask you Libo, what do you think a fair salary for your kids teacher should be? Give us a round number.

Shouldn't that depend on the quality of the teacher? One size don't fit all, unless a teacher is being protected by a union.

 

[Meister]

This is kind of weird. The poll results are, currently, 21-0.

Either this is an echo chamber, or liberals are embarassed at the question.

There has been plenty of debate in this thread from both sides. Only one side seems to be able to answer the question, though.

 

[Meister]

Simple-minded question in that it's a False Choice. What about approaching the bargaining table as equals?

Equals?
Unions represent a finite number of people in the state of Wi.
The government represents every person in the state of Wi.

Not quite a simple minded question.

It doesn't matter if it were only one person. If you're talking inequality, you're talking unAmerican in my book.

I'm not talking inequality.....unless your talking about the taxpayers paying for the large unfunded benefits packages and large unfunded retirement packages for the union workers. Yes, that IS unAmerican. That is certainly inequality...I'm glad you agree with me.

 

[Charles_Main]

I think the real point of this thread is that there is some inherit Risk in Unions becoming to politically powerful. Especially when were talking about Public Sector Unions. The Unions are able Buy Favor with an entire Political party, then Negotiate their Contracts with negotiators appointed in many cases by people in the very same party. The Union Gets all this money to Buy the Favor from Dues, it's members are forced to pay Regardless of their own Political Beliefs.

The out Come of this is a very small group of people, The Union leadrship, Exercising a disproportionally large amount of Political power over a state. Less than 5% of the Population of Wisconsin is currently holding the states Education System Hostage in order to try to keep their Platinum Benefits, with Blatant Disregard for the State Budget situation, or the Needs of the Tax Payers that may their Way, and with disregard for their own members who stand to lose their jobs in Lay Offs if no deal is reached.

Classic Tyranny of a very well organized and connected Minority over the Majority.

 

[Vast LWC]

No, it's a fair question. The unions have given a lot of money to the democrat party that has in return empowered the unions. I mean, look at the democrats that left the state so there wouldn't be a vote, that is power for the unions.
You should be embarrassed to not be able to see it, or your not honest enough to admit it.

Okay, first of all there is no "democrat" party, unless someone has started a new party that I'm not aware of.

The name of the party is the "Democratic Party". Say it right, or don't bother to say it at all.

Secondly, unionization is a core belief of the Democratic Party. The Unions don't have to pay the politicians, their entire basic platform is based around having unions exist. It's a core belief, like Republicans believe in unlimited Corporate power.

Finally, and most to the point there is no basis for a comparison of power between unions and government, because their spheres of control are completely unrelated. As I said, it's an "Apples and Oranges" comparison.

 

[Meister]

No, it's a fair question. The unions have given a lot of money to the democrat party that has in return empowered the unions. I mean, look at the democrats that left the state so there wouldn't be a vote, that is power for the unions.
You should be embarrassed to not be able to see it, or your not honest enough to admit it.

Okay, first of all there is no "democrat" party, unless someone has started a new party that I'm not aware of.

The name of the party is the "Democratic Party". Say it right, or don't bother to say it at all.

Secondly, unionization is a core belief of the Democratic Party. The Unions don't have to pay the politicians, their entire basic platform is based around having unions exist. It's a core belief, like Republicans believe in unlimited Corporate power.

Finally, and most to the point there is no basis for a comparison of power between unions and government, because their spheres of control are completely unrelated. As I said, it's an "Apples and Oranges" comparison.

The democrat party proudly accepts, and the union proudly gives the money....it is a core belief. The democrats are the ones that ran out of state so they wouldn't have a vote in regards to the unions. If you call that apples and oranges, I call you a moron.

 

[JFK_USA]

And the state government's aren't? The government is the biggest culprit for states going bankrupt-not unions.

Then, who's taxes are paying for the unfunded benefit and pension contracts? Not the unions. I never said that it was the unions alone that are doing it, but "helping" to do it. There are cuts going on throughout state budgets, but it seems the unions are "untouchable"?

Why not just renegociate the contracts? Why eliminate ther right to collective bargaining?

I'll bet there are some ways to trim the budget without eliminating workers rights.

Because they are ***** and have no backbone. Collective Bargaining is the right ot NEGOTIATE their wages, benefits, and other things.

If they can't negotiate because they skip that day in common sense class, then they shouldn't get mad when they get taken to the cleaners.

 

[Meister]

Then, who's taxes are paying for the unfunded benefit and pension contracts? Not the unions. I never said that it was the unions alone that are doing it, but "helping" to do it. There are cuts going on throughout state budgets, but it seems the unions are "untouchable"?

Why not just renegociate the contracts? Why eliminate ther right to collective bargaining?

I'll bet there are some ways to trim the budget without eliminating workers rights.

Because they are ***** and have no backbone. Collective Bargaining is the right ot NEGOTIATE their wages, benefits, and other things.

If they can't negotiate because they skip that day in common sense class, then they shouldn't get mad when they get taken to the cleaners.

On the backs of the tax payers....your forgot the tax payers.
You forget that there is an unfunded portion to the benefits...there lies the rub.

 

[JFK_USA]

Why not just renegociate the contracts? Why eliminate ther right to collective bargaining?

I'll bet there are some ways to trim the budget without eliminating workers rights.

Because they are ***** and have no backbone. Collective Bargaining is the right ot NEGOTIATE their wages, benefits, and other things.

If they can't negotiate because they skip that day in common sense class, then they shouldn't get mad when they get taken to the cleaners.

On the backs of the tax payers....your forgot the tax payers.
You forget that there is an unfunded portion to the benefits...there lies the rub.

THEY AGREED TO THE CUTS!!!!

They made that concession and Walker is too much of a ***** to actually negotiate because then Wisconsin will realize if they haven't already that he is a retard.

Unions aren't this horrible monster, they will agree to cuts if it keeps the jobs in place. UAW did it during the Spring of 2009 taking a 50% cut. The majority believe in shared sacrifice, but when you take away the power for us to negotiate our rights and leave it up to people who don't have our best interest at heart, you hurt us and our means to provide a living for our family.

This is a purely politcal move. The Democrats will stay away for as long as it takes. We will fight till the bitter end.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Just a Thank You to Taxpayers once and awhile really would go a long way. The problem with Unions and Generational Welfare Recipients is that they never take the time to thank Taxpayers for the benefits they receive. It's always just more complaining and demanding more from them. This had led to them losing a lot of support. Food Stamps don't just magically appear. They are provided by hard-working American Taxpayers. And shame on the Democrats for not stressing this more with their Entitlement crowd. Unions and Welfare Recipients would do themselves a big service if they would do less complaining and more Thanking. Just a thought anyway.

 

[Meister]

Because they are ***** and have no backbone. Collective Bargaining is the right ot NEGOTIATE their wages, benefits, and other things.

If they can't negotiate because they skip that day in common sense class, then they shouldn't get mad when they get taken to the cleaners.

On the backs of the tax payers....your forgot the tax payers.
You forget that there is an unfunded portion to the benefits...there lies the rub.

THEY AGREED TO THE CUTS!!!!

They made that concession and Walker is too much of a ***** to actually negotiate because then Wisconsin will realize if they haven't already that he is a retard.

Unions aren't this horrible monster, they will agree to cuts if it keeps the jobs in place. UAW did it during the Spring of 2009 taking a 50% cut. The majority believe in shared sacrifice, but when you take away the power for us to negotiate our rights and leave it up to people who don't have our best interest at heart, you hurt us and our means to provide a living for our family.

This is a purely politcal move. The Democrats will stay away for as long as it takes. We will fight till the bitter end.

They agreed to a one time roll back