Should police unions be abolished?

[task0778]

I think abolishing public unions, including the police, firefighters, teachers, etc., ought to be decided at the local and state level. The corruption that exists between those unions and the politicians that they support and support them ought to be addressed but you don't have to abolish the unions. Set their pay raises and other compensation at some mechanism related to inflation and the cost of living and deny those unions the right to strike.

Same with qualified immunity, the line between what is acceptable for a cop and what isn't should be a local issue.

 

[Resnic]

Police unions have a long history of actively protecting dirty cops.

Officers with long histories of bribery, planting evidence, excessive force, and even sexual harassment, have retained their jobs for years despite multiple attempts of firing them.

This is because the union contracts in many cities make it nearly impossible for an officer to be fired for any reason.

Some cities have outright abolished their police unions fired all unionized police officers, and hired a new non-union police force, and crime in those cities have gone down as has the cost of maintaining the police force without having to pay fees to the union.

Some former police officers have even said that you need officials didn't care if an officer was corrupt or not they saw it as their duty to protect officers regardless of their actions, and that Union officials had winter's far as threatening to withhold assistance to officers who cooperate with internal affairs investigations into their fellow officers. police unions have gotten to the point where they see it as their job to cover up for the crimes of dirty cops and punish any police officers who refuse to do that

No, they have a long history is protecting good cops. 92% of the cops they protect are all cops that are good, the bad they protect are very much in the minority and you dont throw out the baby with the bathwater.

On the whole unions are a fucking scam designed to do nothing more than bilk money from union workers paychecks and to keep some bit of power.

But police unions are a good thing as they protect a lot of cops from bullshit complaints. My father was a cop, my best friend is a cop and I was a deputy on the cert team for a local jail. The amount of complaints cops get from people they arrest just because they are pissed off they got caught doing something or even complaints about speeding tickets is staggering. Inmates in jails do nothing but file complaints. You can be the best most honest cop in the world and you will get complaints every week filed against you by people pissed off they got in trouble for breaking the law.

All people like you do is want to blame cops and make blanket statements like they are corrupt, racist and so on. But there are thousands of cops on duty in this country at any given moment and interact with thousands and thousands more people a day, yet you only hear about a few having issues on the news and even most of those are "dope head career criminal breaks law and gets arrested and resists arrest and pulls weapon on cops and they shoot him. Hundreds protest police brutality over crminial on drugs trying to kill cops" or some other such nonsense.

Bottom line is if you think police unions are bad you have never been a cop or actually understand what being a cop is. Same goes for saying they are corrupt.

 

[NightFox]

The vast majority of public servants will get sued just as much as the worst. Anyone with something to lose will just choose not to take the risk .and do something else. Look at the phony complaints lodged against police now. Pay these phonies and they will deliberately get into confrontations just to have a payday. Eventually the police will just degenerate into those with nothing to lose. They will become ultimately corrupt getting in for all they can get as quickly as they can get it then get out.

Do you know what a capper is?

Who do you think is a more attractive target for civil liability, a city or an individual officer? Would you rather be on the hook for damages caused by a negligent officer or have that officer pay for his own actions?

I don’t think you get the fact that removing qualified immunity won’t change the number of lawsuits filed, it just changes who gets held liable for damages. Personally I’d rather it be the person that caused the damages and not innocent tax payers that had nothing to do with it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Who do you think is a more attractive target for civil liability, a city or an individual officer? Would you rather be on the hook for damages caused by a negligent officer or have that officer pay for his own actions?

I don’t think you get the fact that removing qualified immunity won’t change the number of lawsuits filed, it just changes who gets held liable for damages. Personally I’d rather it be the person that caused the damages and not innocent tax payers that had nothing to do with it.

A police officer with insurance is the most attractive target for a police brutality lawsuit. If a man or woman recognizes that he or she can lose everything they have because of a phony lawsuit they will choose to do something else.

Who do you think pays for phony traffic accidents? Grocery store slip and falls? Phony medical malpractice claims? We all do. It's built into pricing. It's figured in with our own premiums. Pull that on police and they will decide not to get shot at.

 

[struth]

Since when is civil liability a “whole new area for lawyers” ? Would you rather the tax payers be held civilly accountable for a cop that goes off the deep end and illegally kills an innocent civilian while on duty?

Why would you think the police are unnecessary? They’re very necessary that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be personally accountable for what they do while on duty. Nor does it mean that they should have unions where both sides of the bargaining table are stacked against the interests of the tax payer.

qualified immunity wouldn’t cover your hypo.

after a plaintiff gets past that hurdle taxpayers should be held liable like any other employer

getting rid of it wouldn’t give the govt any more protection from liability

 

[justinacolmena]

Officers with long histories of bribery, planting evidence, excessive force, and even sexual harassment, have retained their jobs for years despite multiple attempts of firing them.

Criminal cases are overturned in court because of their misconduct, and yet they keep their jobs no matter what.

Police unions have a long history of actively protecting dirty cops.

They've been out to murder me for many years, and have made several attempts on my life.

 

[Bush92]

Police unions have a long history of actively protecting dirty cops.

Officers with long histories of bribery, planting evidence, excessive force, and even sexual harassment, have retained their jobs for years despite multiple attempts of firing them.

This is because the union contracts in many cities make it nearly impossible for an officer to be fired for any reason.

Some cities have outright abolished their police unions fired all unionized police officers, and hired a new non-union police force, and crime in those cities have gone down as has the cost of maintaining the police force without having to pay fees to the union.

Some former police officers have even said that you need officials didn't care if an officer was corrupt or not they saw it as their duty to protect officers regardless of their actions, and that Union officials had winter's far as threatening to withhold assistance to officers who cooperate with internal affairs investigations into their fellow officers. police unions have gotten to the point where they see it as their job to cover up for the crimes of dirty cops and punish any police officers who refuse to do that

You Antifa BLM supporter. Support our police and the Benevolent Order of Police otherwise you are a criminal supporting dirt bag.

 

[NightFox]

A police officer with insurance is the most attractive target for a police brutality lawsuit. If a man or woman recognizes that he or she can lose everything they have because of a phony lawsuit they will choose to do something else.

Who do you think pays for phony traffic accidents? Grocery store slip and falls? Phony medical malpractice claims? We all do. It's built into pricing. It's figured in with our own premiums. Pull that on police and they will decide not to get shot at.

Private citizens are not shielded by qualified immunity and thus can be held personally liable for damages they cause through negligence or malice even when at work, why the heck should a cop be any different? Don’t you believe in personal responsibility?

As far as a cop risking losing everything they have in a phony lawsuit, That same thing can happen to anybody, so it doesn’t make sense that a cop gets to foist off his liability for negligence or malice onto everyone Else just on the off chance he gets hit with a phony suit that wins a judgement for the plaintiff.

Cops can carry liability insurance just like every doctor or independent contractor has to.

 

[justinacolmena]

You Antifa BLM supporter. Support our police and the Benevolent Order of Police otherwise you are a criminal supporting dirt bag.

Ex-treasurer of police union to plead guilty to wire fraud

BOSTON (AP) — A former police sergeant and treasurer for New Bedford's police union has agreed to plead guilty to stealing nearly $50,000 in union funding, federal prosecutors said Tuesday.

apnews.com

Former New Bedford Police Union Treasurer Agrees to Plead Guilty to Stealing Union Funds

BOSTON – A former New Bedford Police Department (NBPD) officer and NBPD Union Treasurer has agreed to plead guilty to stealing nearly $50,000 in union funds.

www.justice.gov

Spanish surname or they never could've gotten an indictment in federal district court where the Five Families and the Sicilian Mafia are above the law and exempt from male criminal prosecution.

 

[NightFox]

A police officer with insurance is the most attractive target for a police brutality lawsuit. If a man or woman recognizes that he or she can lose everything they have because of a phony lawsuit they will choose to do something else.

Who do you think pays for phony traffic accidents? Grocery store slip and falls? Phony medical malpractice claims? We all do. It's built into pricing. It's figured in with our own premiums. Pull that on police and they will decide not to get shot at.

One last point Tipsy, I get that you want to combat phony lawsuits, I fully support that goal. However qualified immunity isn’t the way to go about it.

IMHO two steps to do it:
1. Loser pays ALL costs, see how willing hucksters are to roll the dice for footing an insurance companies $1000 an hour legal team not to mention court costs and any other costs the defendant can come up with.

2. Give judges the discretion to fine attorneys for bringing merit less cases before the court.

Do that and watch how fast these bullshit lawsuits disappear, hold the plaintiffs accountable for damages they cause to the defendant. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[justinacolmena]

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Cops are getting their personal asses sued and that damned union of theirs isn't there to back them in court.

 

[NightFox]

Cops are getting their personal asses sued and that damned union of theirs isn't there to back them in court.

Only those not shielded by qualified immunity, a protection that has been abused beyond recognition by the legal system.

Perhaps you should go back and read the entire conversation.

 

[justinacolmena]

Only those not shielded by qualified immunity, a protection that has been abused beyond recognition by the legal system.

Perhaps you should go back and read the entire conversation.

No one who bears arms against U.S. citizens needs "qualified immunity" in U.S. court.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Police unions have a long history of actively protecting dirty cops.

Officers with long histories of bribery, planting evidence, excessive force, and even sexual harassment, have retained their jobs for years despite multiple attempts of firing them.

This is because the union contracts in many cities make it nearly impossible for an officer to be fired for any reason.

Some cities have outright abolished their police unions fired all unionized police officers, and hired a new non-union police force, and crime in those cities have gone down as has the cost of maintaining the police force without having to pay fees to the union.

Some former police officers have even said that you need officials didn't care if an officer was corrupt or not they saw it as their duty to protect officers regardless of their actions, and that Union officials had winter's far as threatening to withhold assistance to officers who cooperate with internal affairs investigations into their fellow officers. police unions have gotten to the point where they see it as their job to cover up for the crimes of dirty cops and punish any police officers who refuse to do that

I'd go further, all public employee union should be abolished. Public employees work for the citizens and their unions have entered into an unholy alliance with politicians to benefit the politicians and union members at the expense of the public that pays their salaries.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I thought unions were good.

Private sector unions are sorta kinda good. They are a limit on management and offer a counterbalance to management excesses. The interests of management, stockholders and employees are balanced. Public sector unions on the other hand work hand in hand with management (the politicians) to the detriment of the stockholders (the citizens) for their own power and enrichment.

 

[AZrailwhale]

So if a city government wants to pay police officer $5 an hour, no vacation, 12 hours a day, that should be encouraged?

If that is what the city offers, it will get the police force it deserves. One full of criminals and grifters who accept bribes to perform their job functions. No one forces people to work for cities.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The vast majority of public servants will get sued just as much as the worst. Anyone with something to lose will just choose not to take the risk .and do something else. Look at the phony complaints lodged against police now. Pay these phonies and they will deliberately get into confrontations just to have a payday. Eventually the police will just degenerate into those with nothing to lose. They will become ultimately corrupt getting in for all they can get as quickly as they can get it then get out.

Do you know what a capper is?

I have no idea what a capper is. But without qualified immunity police officers and other public employees will get private insurance. The insurance companies won't insure bad employees who might cost them money, so the quality of police and public employees will improve. It's a win-win for the taxpayers.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Private citizens are not shielded by qualified immunity and thus can be held personally liable for damages they cause through negligence or malice even when at work, why the heck should a cop be any different? Don’t you believe in personal responsibility?

As far as a cop risking losing everything they have in a phony lawsuit, That same thing can happen to anybody, so it doesn’t make sense that a cop gets to foist off his liability for negligence or malice onto everyone Else just on the off chance he gets hit with a phony suit that wins a judgement for the plaintiff.

Cops can carry liability insurance just like every doctor or independent contractor has to.

Because a requirement of the job is to risk their lives in defense of others. Proven by the number of police killed in the line of duty. That's why. Because we have job requirements thar police officers face the most dangerous and vicious savages we have. That's why. Because we only give them qualified immunity as it is. That's why. Make it even more difficult and dangerous to be a police officer and people will do something else. They can work for private security as a mercenary. Leave the streets to vigilantes.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

All government employee unions should be abolished. It was one of the few things that FDR was right about.

Unions should be only a free market apparatus. And then they should have unlimited use of their market power. Government should not be involved

100% agree, wholly shit, what a racket.

Speaking from one experience however, the union did nothing but take a percent off their members, that's literally all they were good for, thank god it was optional. I watched them try and take ownership of something I did, just stood and listened, chuckled and left. In this state they're 100% useless. Interesting to note speaking for one State, Republican Govs. bring prosperity and higher wages for State employees while Demonicrat Govs. give excuses. True story, been that way since at least the 80s. We had a good Democrat Gov. that I remember, that was the 70s.

Democrats suck, any good ones?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Government employee unions exist for one reason: to permit their members to continue to GORGE at the public trough.