Should Gerrymandering be Banned?

[Moonglow]

Should Gerrymandering be Banned?
The correct word you are looking for is:

malapportionment

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Yes...it’s constitutional.

What is your definition of gerrymandering?

“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union...” redistricting is left up to the states. Elections have consequences. In those states where majority wants to skew it their way...good for them. If they want a commission or panel...sure. But keep the power of Congressional districts in the hands of the states. If they want to gerrymander...so be it.

Just as I thought, you're conflating redistricting with gerrymandering. You should go back to whatever shithole you got your poli-sci degree from and demand a refund.

OK, let's hear the difference, straight from the horse's ass! What is the difference, hot shot?

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

 

[HappyJoy]

What is your definition of gerrymandering?

“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union...” redistricting is left up to the states. Elections have consequences. In those states where majority wants to skew it their way...good for them. If they want a commission or panel...sure. But keep the power of Congressional districts in the hands of the states. If they want to gerrymander...so be it.

Just as I thought, you're conflating redistricting with gerrymandering. You should go back to whatever shithole you got your poli-sci degree from and demand a refund.

OK, let's hear the difference, straight from the horse's ass! What is the difference, hot shot?

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

I feel sorry for your students.

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

Do you think the majority party should redraw districts to benefit them?

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

I'm guessing they win more than one congressional district due to population, not gerrymandering but nice try.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Then break it. You mean to tell me that California that is almost 70% Democrats should modify for fairness? You mean that Alabama that is 70% Republicans should modify?

Yes. And btw, fairness doesn't mean 50/50.

Democracy is not designed to be fair to everyone. Majority rule...but...in United States...we preserve minority rights.

Actually I think majority rule is fair and democratic with a constitutional democracy that guarantees rights of minorities. However when you carve up those minority communities (whether by race or political party) so that you eat away at what little representation they do have becomes undemocratic and infringes on the rights of those minorities.

Oh....you tire me out...how are they based on race? If 90% of Blacks are Democrats how can that be helped? Geezus...fucking race card...is that all you got? It’s tiresome to listen to this broken record.

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

 

[longknife]

The constitution only states that congressional districts shall be apportioned as a result of the census.

Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.[6] But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

The number of representatives was limited by a law at 435. However, if one followed the original term of the constitution, there would be a whole lot more.

It is up to each state legislature to determine how congressional districts are apportioned. These damned judges have no business sticking their noses into how the state legislatures make their determinations. The legislatures reflect THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE - not the judges!

 

[HappyJoy]

Yes. And btw, fairness doesn't mean 50/50.

Democracy is not designed to be fair to everyone. Majority rule...but...in United States...we preserve minority rights.

Actually I think majority rule is fair and democratic with a constitutional democracy that guarantees rights of minorities. However when you carve up those minority communities (whether by race or political party) so that you eat away at what little representation they do have becomes undemocratic and infringes on the rights of those minorities.

Oh....you tire me out...how are they based on race? If 90% of Blacks are Democrats how can that be helped? Geezus...fucking race card...is that all you got? It’s tiresome to listen to this broken record.

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

 

[HappyJoy]

The constitution only states that congressional districts shall be apportioned as a result of the census.

Section 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.[6] But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

The number of representatives was limited by a law at 435. However, if one followed the original term of the constitution, there would be a whole lot more.

It is up to each state legislature to determine how congressional districts are apportioned. These damned judges have no business sticking their noses into how the state legislatures make their determinations. The legislatures reflect THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE - not the judges!

When the state legislatures fuck up then yes, unfortunately the court gets involved. What the state legislature should do is nominate 2 republicans and 2 democrats to form a committee and let them hash out the districts and then the state legislature regardless of who controls it doesn't fuck it up.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

“Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union...” redistricting is left up to the states. Elections have consequences. In those states where majority wants to skew it their way...good for them. If they want a commission or panel...sure. But keep the power of Congressional districts in the hands of the states. If they want to gerrymander...so be it.

Just as I thought, you're conflating redistricting with gerrymandering. You should go back to whatever shithole you got your poli-sci degree from and demand a refund.

OK, let's hear the difference, straight from the horse's ass! What is the difference, hot shot?

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

I feel sorry for your students.

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

Do you think the majority party should redraw districts to benefit them?

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

I'm guessing they win more than one congressional district due to population, not gerrymandering but nice try.

You feel sorry for my students because they learn the truth?

The courts, as I have said before, have dictated that maps be drawn to guarantee minority representation. That is undemocratic, but I don't teach that because that is my opinion.

There are no black Congressman or even statewide office holders in my state. The mayors of all the large cities are white. There are not enough blacks to concentrate to make up a district. Only one Democrat in our congressional delegation and that seat has been Democrat since Reagan was elected. You can't gerrymander what you don't have.

 

[HappyJoy]

Just as I thought, you're conflating redistricting with gerrymandering. You should go back to whatever shithole you got your poli-sci degree from and demand a refund.

OK, let's hear the difference, straight from the horse's ass! What is the difference, hot shot?

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

I feel sorry for your students.

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

Do you think the majority party should redraw districts to benefit them?

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

I'm guessing they win more than one congressional district due to population, not gerrymandering but nice try.

You feel sorry for my students because they learn the truth?

The courts, as I have said before, have dictated that maps be drawn to guarantee minority representation. That is undemocratic, but I don't teach that because that is my opinion.

There are no black Congressman or even statewide office holders in my state. The mayors of all the large cities are white. There are not enough blacks to concentrate to make up a district. Only one Democrat in our congressional delegation and that seat has been Democrat since Reagan was elected. You can't gerrymander what you don't have.

Why does there have to be black democrats? Also, why do there have to be enough blacks to make up a district?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Democracy is not designed to be fair to everyone. Majority rule...but...in United States...we preserve minority rights.

Actually I think majority rule is fair and democratic with a constitutional democracy that guarantees rights of minorities. However when you carve up those minority communities (whether by race or political party) so that you eat away at what little representation they do have becomes undemocratic and infringes on the rights of those minorities.

Oh....you tire me out...how are they based on race? If 90% of Blacks are Democrats how can that be helped? Geezus...fucking race card...is that all you got? It’s tiresome to listen to this broken record.

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

Are those areas contiguous? If so, it is not gerrymandered.

What does school funding have to do with it? Are you terminally bewildered?

 

[HappyJoy]

Actually I think majority rule is fair and democratic with a constitutional democracy that guarantees rights of minorities. However when you carve up those minority communities (whether by race or political party) so that you eat away at what little representation they do have becomes undemocratic and infringes on the rights of those minorities.

Oh....you tire me out...how are they based on race? If 90% of Blacks are Democrats how can that be helped? Geezus...fucking race card...is that all you got? It’s tiresome to listen to this broken record.

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

Are those areas contiguous? If so, it is not gerrymandered.

What does school funding have to do with it? Are you terminally bewildered?

It's in the link, it's PA, cracking is one of the reasons the state supreme court had to go in and do the redistricting themselves. I used that link to demonstrate that cracking still takes place.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

OK, let's hear the difference, straight from the horse's ass! What is the difference, hot shot?

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

I feel sorry for your students.

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

Do you think the majority party should redraw districts to benefit them?

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

I'm guessing they win more than one congressional district due to population, not gerrymandering but nice try.

You feel sorry for my students because they learn the truth?

The courts, as I have said before, have dictated that maps be drawn to guarantee minority representation. That is undemocratic, but I don't teach that because that is my opinion.

There are no black Congressman or even statewide office holders in my state. The mayors of all the large cities are white. There are not enough blacks to concentrate to make up a district. Only one Democrat in our congressional delegation and that seat has been Democrat since Reagan was elected. You can't gerrymander what you don't have.

Why does there have to be black democrats? Also, why do there have to be enough blacks to make up a district?

They don't win elections if they are not "packed" as your link indicated. My state is probably the most un-gerrymandered state you can find.

 

[HappyJoy]

My god, look what happened to PA's 7th congressional district over time:

You don't see anything peculiar about 2013?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Oh....you tire me out...how are they based on race? If 90% of Blacks are Democrats how can that be helped? Geezus...fucking race card...is that all you got? It’s tiresome to listen to this broken record.

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

Are those areas contiguous? If so, it is not gerrymandered.

What does school funding have to do with it? Are you terminally bewildered?

It's in the link, it's PA, cracking is one of the reasons the state supreme court had to go in and do the redistricting themselves. I used that link to demonstrate that cracking still takes place.

You could not answer the questions, could you?

OK, fair enough. You are simply a dumbass and not worth engaging and educating.

 

[HappyJoy]

Redistricting is the process of redrawing legislative districts usually performed after the census is taken every 10 years.

Gerrymandering is manipulating those districts to favor one political party over another by using tricks such as cracking and packing (look it up).

Try google, it's your friend.

I teach this shit, dumbass! I don't have to Google like you!

I feel sorry for your students.

You were arguing from a position of ignorance, trying to separate redistricting from gerrymandering. Gerrymandering started in the early 1800s and continues today, mostly making at least some Congressional seats safe for minorities. The aforementioned Corrine Brown's district in FL was a testament to how convoluted districts had to be drawn in north Florida to get a black elected.

Do you think the majority party should redraw districts to benefit them?

In my current state, blacks only live in the inner cities of four metro areas. They still couldn't win a seat if all of them were rolled into one district. That's why black Democrats don't do well statewide or in Congress, yet our Lt. Governor is a black female Republican.

I'm guessing they win more than one congressional district due to population, not gerrymandering but nice try.

You feel sorry for my students because they learn the truth?

The courts, as I have said before, have dictated that maps be drawn to guarantee minority representation. That is undemocratic, but I don't teach that because that is my opinion.

There are no black Congressman or even statewide office holders in my state. The mayors of all the large cities are white. There are not enough blacks to concentrate to make up a district. Only one Democrat in our congressional delegation and that seat has been Democrat since Reagan was elected. You can't gerrymander what you don't have.

Why does there have to be black democrats? Also, why do there have to be enough blacks to make up a district?

They don't win elections if they are not "packed" as your link indicated. My state is probably the most un-gerrymandered state you can find.

Why are you only focusing on your state?

 

[HappyJoy]

When you cut a large black populace into pieces and contain those tiny pieces into larger white populated areas. It's called cracking, look into it.

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

Are those areas contiguous? If so, it is not gerrymandered.

What does school funding have to do with it? Are you terminally bewildered?

It's in the link, it's PA, cracking is one of the reasons the state supreme court had to go in and do the redistricting themselves. I used that link to demonstrate that cracking still takes place.

You could not answer the questions, could you?

OK, fair enough. You are simply a dumbass and not worth engaging and educating.

No, it's been answered.

 

[OKTexas]

Should Gerrymandering be Banned?
The correct word you are looking for is:

malapportionment

No, that's what the Census Bureau is doing. You might want to read the 14th Amendment on the topic.


.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There is no way to draw district lines in a way that doesn't favor one side over the other.

Gerrymandering is a problem without a solution.

Naturally drawing districts is going to favor the majority, however when you divide up the minorities populations so that they are absorbed by the majority then it's undemocratic.

What is "naturally"?

I don't disagree that particularly egregious gerrymandering should go to the courts - and it does - but at it's root, it's a political inevitability.

You get an independent commission to draw the lines and take it out of the hands of politicians. Several states already do this.

There is no such thing as an independent commission.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That was the case many years ago, but the courts swung the completely opposite way and now the districts are drawn to be to have majority of minorities.

Still happens.

About Gerrymandering | Fair Districts PA

The problem isn’t just its odd shape. When you look at District 7 alongside Districts 6 and 16, you see a prime example of cracking: The lines spread poor urban communities out among suburban and rural areas. For example, Reading is the fifth largest city in Pennsylvania. The lines are drawn to put Reading voters in the same district as Lancaster farmers. We can’t directly link lack of representation and issues like poverty and low school funding, but it’s interesting to note that Reading is currently the poorest community, with the most underfunded school system, in the U.S.

Are those areas contiguous? If so, it is not gerrymandered.

What does school funding have to do with it? Are you terminally bewildered?

It's in the link, it's PA, cracking is one of the reasons the state supreme court had to go in and do the redistricting themselves. I used that link to demonstrate that cracking still takes place.

You could not answer the questions, could you?

OK, fair enough. You are simply a dumbass and not worth engaging and educating.

No, it's been answered.

No. You did not answer the questions I posed to you because you don't know, dumbass!

 

[HappyJoy]

There is no way to draw district lines in a way that doesn't favor one side over the other.

Gerrymandering is a problem without a solution.

Naturally drawing districts is going to favor the majority, however when you divide up the minorities populations so that they are absorbed by the majority then it's undemocratic.

What is "naturally"?

I don't disagree that particularly egregious gerrymandering should go to the courts - and it does - but at it's root, it's a political inevitability.

You get an independent commission to draw the lines and take it out of the hands of politicians. Several states already do this.

There is no such thing as an independent commission.

If you put the same number of republicans and democrats on a committee then both sides have equal opportunity. Much better than just having the state legislature which is not equal take on the task directly. But you knew, or at least should have known this.