Should foreign language be a required to graduate high school?

[The ClayTaurus]

I'll never understand why people wouldn't be interested in learning as much as possible, especially for "free" in public schools.

 

[Chad2000k]

I'll never understand why people wouldn't be interested in learning as much as possible, especially for "free" in public schools.

Cuz we dont need it so we dont need to learn it.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Cuz we dont need it so we dont need to learn it.

I bet you'd be surprised at the usefullness of knowing a foreign language. Sure, it might not be a focal requirement for whatever you do in life, but it could help you out in a pinch when you least expect it.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Cuz we dont need it so we dont need to learn it.

Chad, I am curious, which subjects do you think you will need?

 

[Semper Fi]

I'm in spanish 2 right now, I'll probably continue it at least another year. I dont think the topic is necessarily worth debating, I dont think its that big of a deal.

However, I support the idea that foreign immigrant students should have to know english to graduate.

 

[liberalogic]

I love when people say they are terrible at foreign language so it shouldn't be required. That could be applied to any subject in high school.

A foreign language is so valuable because not only does it help you understand your own language better, but it also forces you to think differently than you would in other classes. I'm not saying we all need to be native speakers, but understanding the basics of any language can only help you broaden your resume and your thinking skills.

What's funny is that I took 4 years of Spanish in HS; I can't speak it well because as hard as I try, I'm the furthest thing from Spanish. Though I can write it better than most native speakers because I learned it from a strict grammatical standpoint.

 

[Semper Fi]

I love when people say they are terrible at foreign language so it shouldn't be required. That could be applied to any subject in high school.

A foreign language is so valuable because not only does it help you understand your own language better, but it also forces you to think differently than you would in other classes. I'm not saying we all need to be native speakers, but understanding the basics of any language can only help you broaden your resume and your thinking skills.

What's funny is that I took 4 years of Spanish in HS; I can't speak it well because as hard as I try, I'm the furthest thing from Spanish. Though I can write it better than most native speakers because I learned it from a strict grammatical standpoint.

So does 4 years of spanish generally get you fluency? Just curious. I can hear you on the furthest thing from spanish, I am too. My accent is so not-spanish its funny to listen to.

 

[Chad2000k]

Chad, I am curious, which subjects do you think you will need?

I wanna be an engineer, so im taking Auto-CAD classes to boost it. To support it i also need Physics.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I wanna be an engineer, so im taking Auto-CAD classes to boost it. To support it i also need Physics.

Taking courses to aid you in the future is logical. But- my husband got his engineering degree from a school that let him take almost no electives. Practically everything was related to engineering in some way. To this day, he regrets that his college eduction wasn't more well-rounded.

 

[Annie]

Taking courses to aid you in the future is logical. But- my husband got his engineering degree from a school that let him take almost no electives. Practically everything was related to engineering in some way. To this day, he regrets that his college eduction wasn't more well-rounded.

Hey, he can always go back to university for more general education courses. This coming from someone with 3 bachelor's and 3/4 of MS. Hey, I'm hoping for acceptance into a summer program, studying American Presidential documents! 2k + Room and Board and playing in archives! Whoops, and 3 hours grad credit in history!

 

[Abbey Normal]

Hey, he can always go back to university for more general education courses. This coming from someone with 3 bachelor's and 3/4 of MS. Hey, I'm hoping for acceptance into a summer program, studying American Presidential documents! 2k + Room and Board and playing in archives! Whoops, and 3 hours grad credit in history!

Three degrees simultaneously or consecutively?!

The summer program sounds very interesting. Sounds like you will be on campus?

It's never too late to learn, but as for my husband, we are focusing on paying for our daughter's college in a couple of years. He did get an MBA after the B.S., so there was that.

 

[Annie]

Three degrees simultaneously or consecutively?!

The summer program sounds very interesting. Sounds like you will be on campus?

It's never too late to learn, but as for my husband, we are focusing on paying for our daughter's college in a couple of years. He did get an MBA after the B.S., so there was that.

Pol. Sci. and Sociology concurrently. History later. Then started on MS in Edu., but family issues got in the way, though probably good, since it seems nearly impossible to get hired with Master's right now. They want you to get it after hire, but don't want to pay the 'up front' salary. Probably even more important, I don't want to be an 'administrator' and that's what the program would have led to.

Now I'm seriously thinking of going for 'summer MA' program in History.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Pol. Sci. and Sociology concurrently. History later. Then started on MS in Edu., but family issues got in the way, though probably good, since it seems nearly impossible to get hired with Master's right now. They want you to get it after hire, but don't want to pay the 'up front' salary. Probably even more important, I don't want to be an 'administrator' and that's what the program would have led to.

Now I'm seriously thinking of going for 'summer MA' program in History.

Your degrees seem to complement each other. Very cool!

Now that I work at the District level, I can see from the inside what a royal pain Administration is. Good call by you.

 

[liberalogic]

So does 4 years of spanish generally get you fluency? Just curious. I can hear you on the furthest thing from spanish, I am too. My accent is so not-spanish its funny to listen to.

It should get you fluency in writing the language, but to truly speak it fluently (meaning to sound remotely close to a native), you'd probably have to go to a spanish-speaking country. Though by the end of 4 years of HS spanish you should be able to understand most of what a native speaker is saying if they slow it down just a tad.

 

[Working Man]

Should foreign language be a required class to graduate high school??? Its one of those things that older people say you need to succeed in the "job" world... If you think about it, have you guys ever taken such a course in high school? I mean you could, but was it

I feel that we should make sure that our students can speak English well, FIRST!

Just listen to some of the well known, well idolized, college students who play sports.. Are they ready to leave school and run the companies that keep our country strong?

I took latin in high school. My parents said it would help me in college. It didn't. It was a waste of my F'n time. I would have rather taken Spanish, or Itailian, or even Polish. (never know when you need a good peirogee)

If our kids don't become multilingual I feel they will lose opportunities in the job market to the new multilingual immagrants. Communication is key in this new economy. I hate to use the phrase" Global Economy" but in this case a reasonable person needs to be able to see how having the ability to speak to potential customers, clients, or suppliers makes a lot of sense.. No longer are we just buying the ingredients and making the finished product here. No longer are we predominently communicating with English speaking warehouse people, etc.. We are importing more, and maybe exporting a bit. But, the bottom line is that we are looking outward, from these shores for many things, including investment capitol. So,, having the language skills to communicate allows for more efficient business, and life.

 

[Chad2000k]

Pol. Sci. and Sociology concurrently. History later. Then started on MS in Edu., but family issues got in the way, though probably good, since it seems nearly impossible to get hired with Master's right now. They want you to get it after hire, but don't want to pay the 'up front' salary. Probably even more important, I don't want to be an 'administrator' and that's what the program would have led to.

Now I'm seriously thinking of going for 'summer MA' program in History.

Wowsers! So how long u been in college??? But yeah thats a lotta work to achieve, i dont think u get paid more based on your degrees like ur supposed to. Its all based on experience, the longer experience u have in a certain area the more u ought to get paid in my opinion. A friend i know owns a business in landscaping. He hired someone fresh outta K-State, who has a Bachelor in groundskeeping which also has the highest degree in the company has to work on the yardwork instead of the design department. Another guy has little more then him an hour cuz hes worked there for five yrs. What im sayin is whatever degree u get, it wont give u enough experience as a person in the job world. You might not be as qualified but u still have the same chances as getting as much as someone who has no college and worked for more than four yrs in the same position.

 

[Annie]

Wowsers! So how long u been in college??? But yeah thats a lotta work to achieve, i dont think u get paid more based on your degrees like ur supposed to. Its all based on experience, the longer experience u have in a certain area the more u ought to get paid in my opinion. A friend i know owns a business in landscaping. He hired someone fresh outta K-State, who has a Bachelor in groundskeeping which also has the highest degree in the company has to work on the yardwork instead of the design department. Another guy has little more then him an hour cuz hes worked there for five yrs. What im sayin is whatever degree u get, it wont give u enough experience as a person in the job world. You might not be as qualified but u still have the same chances as getting as much as someone who has no college and worked for more than four yrs in the same position.

Read a bit more, you'll know that was not at you.

 

[USViking]

I love when people say they are terrible at foreign language so it shouldn't be required.

That could be applied to any subject in high school.

Right- so it is necessary to decide on a core curriculum
of required subjects.

In my opinion these should be:

1. English
2. Math

Competence in these is a real, not theoretical prerequisite
for ALL other subjects, except perhaps Art.

Until a student is competent in these, requiring others is worse
than usleless, because they take time away from establishing
core competence.

If it takes 12 years to establish core competence, then the core
subjects should be the only ones required.

In my own case, I had attained core competence well before
Junior High. I did not object, and do not object, once core
competence is attained, to requiring 1-2 years of exposure to
Foreign Language, History, Science, Art, and other subjects.

However, once these initial exposure requirements are met,
then there should be enough flexibility in the curriculum
to allow students to concentrate on subjects which they
enjoy most and are most skilled at.

A foreign language is so valuable because not only does it help you understand your own language better,

For my own experience of five full years Latin and six full
years French the statement above is entirely inaccurate,
and I believe it is really sort of a nostrum in general.

but it also forces you to think differently than you would in other classes. I'm not saying we all need to be native speakers, but understanding the basics of any language can only help you broaden your resume and your thinking skills.

For my own experience of five full years Latin and six full
years French the statement above is entirely inaccurate,
and I believe it is really sort of a nostrum in general.

What's funny is that I took 4 years of Spanish in HS; I can't speak it well because as hard as I try, I'm the furthest thing from Spanish. Though I can write it better than most native speakers because I learned it from a strict grammatical standpoint.

I wish I had as much ability myself.

 

[liberalogic]

Right- so it is necessary to decide on a core curriculum
of required subjects.

In my opinion these should be:

1. English
2. Math

Competence in these is a real, not theoretical prerequisite
for ALL other subjects, except perhaps Art.

Until a student is competent in these, requiring others is worse
than usleless, because they take time away from establishing
core competence.

If it takes 12 years to establish core competence, then the core
subjects should be the only ones required.

In my own case, I had attained core competence well before
Junior High. I did not object, and do not object, once core
competence is attained, to requiring 1-2 years of exposure to
Foreign Language, History, Science, Art, and other subjects.

However, once these initial exposure requirements are met,
then there should be enough flexibility in the curriculum
to allow students to concentrate on subjects which they
enjoy most and are most skilled at.




For my own experience of five full years Latin and six full
years French the statement above is entirely inaccurate,
and I believe it is really sort of a nostrum in general.





For my own experience of five full years Latin and six full
years French the statement above is entirely inaccurate,
and I believe it is really sort of a nostrum in general.





I wish I had as much ability myself.

I completely agree with you about the idea of "core competence." Part of the reason why we fall behind in math and science compared to other countries is because we don't establish these fundamental elements well in our educational system. Part of that stems from the "new wave" of teaching styles that alienate substance and clarity for uniqueness and appeal. For example, the math curriculum in my HS was developed by the University of Chicago. Their method was to provide intense sections of reading infused with the mathematics to broaden our skills. The problem, though, was that the reading was incredibly confusing, long, and unnecessary. Instead of getting to the point and showing how to solve the problems with extensive examples, they would drag us through math history and other irrelevant details. Call me "old school," but I resent many of the new approaches to teaching math that lack systematic development in problem solving.

Sorry to bore you with those details, it's just that I couldn't agree more with you about "core competence." At the same time, though, I still disagree with your position on foreign language. Simply taking a year or two will not cut it because the skill of learning another language takes years to develop, especially when you are surrounded by english all day.

Being fairly familiar with a foreign language forces you to exercise parts of your brain that are not developed in other courses. It's almost like you are learning to learn backwards since you are starting from english. To me, any subject that enhances your cognitive development is important. Also, while I know many patriotic people will object to this, the hispanic population is on the rise; it can't hurt to know a little spanish. And while I wholeheartedly agree with your "core competence" argument, I think it's a bit misdirected. If we really want to change that, we need to revamp the curriculum of many elementary, JR, and SR high schools. That's where the problem lies, not in the addition of a foreign language requirement.

 

[USViking]

I completely agree with you about the idea of "core competence." Part of the reason why we fall behind in math and science compared to other countries is because we don't establish these fundamental elements well in our educational system. Part of that stems from the "new wave" of teaching styles that alienate substance and clarity for uniqueness and appeal. For example, the math curriculum in my HS was developed by the University of Chicago. Their method was to provide intense sections of reading infused with the mathematics to broaden our skills. The problem, though, was that the reading was incredibly confusing, long, and unnecessary. Instead of getting to the point and showing how to solve the problems with extensive examples, they would drag us through math history and other irrelevant details. Call me "old school," but I resent many of the new approaches to teaching math that lack systematic development in problem solving.

Sorry to bore you with those details, it's just that I couldn't agree more with you about "core competence."

I was interested by you experience, not bored.
What you describe is a good example of the empty
trendiness coming out of a lot of our Schools
of Education, which is confused with innovation.

At the same time, though, I still disagree with your position on foreign language. Simply taking a year or two will not cut it because the skill of learning another language takes years to develop, especially when you are surrounded by english all day.

If a student enjoys foreign languages, and is good
at them, then by all means let him take as many as
he can squeeze in.

Students who do not enjoy them , and are not good
at them should not be required to take more than an
introductory 1-2 years.

Being fairly familiar with a foreign language forces you to exercise parts of your brain that are not developed in other courses. It's almost like you are learning to learn backwards since you are starting from english. To me, any subject that enhances your cognitive development is important.

I am afraid my own brain did not enjoy these
advantages from having taken foreign languages.
I suspect the same is true for all who do not have
an aptitude for the subject.

Also, while I know many patriotic people will object to this, the hispanic population is on the rise; it can't hurt to know a little spanish.

This is a different issue, and for me it is not
a matter of patriotism, it is a matter of the
tremendous advantage of having a common
language. I feel all non-English speaking students
should be educated entirely by immersion in English,
as I believe they always were until the multicultural
era began exercising its baleful influence.

And while I wholeheartedly agree with your "core competence" argument, I think it's a bit misdirected. If we really want to change that, we need to revamp the curriculum of many elementary, JR, and SR high schools. That's where the problem lies, not in the addition of a foreign language requirement.

I am not familiar enough with modern K1-12
curricula to comment.

I think, though, that the main problem with
education lies with the students, their families,
and politics.

For example, too many students are reared in a
family culture where TV has driven reading and
other intellectual activity from the field, or worse,
the students succumb to an adolescent culture
which is frankly anti-intellectual.

Then the politics of local education compound
the problem by allowing "social promotion" for
students who have not made the grade.