Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[Harry Dresden]

It was a giant con game. I just wish the people running this would see jail time but to add insult to injury we will never see that.

oh i agree.... i would be very happy to toss every union employee in jail.....

[MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION].... so are you one of these people getting your pension yanked?

really?.....i never broke the law.....i was just some poor slob trying to support a family.....

 

[martybegan]

Contract law is not simple, and since the parsimonious callous conservatives don't care about others, popular opinion is that those government workers who toiled for decades should be denied the fruits of their labor. I have no doubt that the Tea Party Members of Congress would happily revoke and declare null and void all contracts which included pensions for those working and those already retired. Of course as Congress does, that would not include their own.

Taking from others is a simple solution for simple minds, such minds have proven such on this thread (and many others). The reality is they too will suffer. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the consequences of such a policy; those who actually think about the impact of such a policy understands its impact.

Alot of words, and no solution to the problem.

Although I know what your solution will be. "Have someone else pay for it"

 

[Avatar4321]

Contract law is not simple, and since the parsimonious callous conservatives don't care about others, popular opinion is that those government workers who toiled for decades should be denied the fruits of their labor. I have no doubt that the Tea Party Members of Congress would happily revoke and declare null and void all contracts which included pensions for those working and those already retired. Of course as Congress does, that would not include their own.

Taking from others is a simple solution for simple minds, such minds have proven such on this thread (and many others). The reality is they too will suffer. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the consequences of such a policy; those who actually think about the impact of such a policy understands its impact.

Glad to see you are admitting that Democrats are a bunch of Robbers now. I wasnt sure you'd ever come around.

 

[syrenn]

It was a giant con game. I just wish the people running this would see jail time but to add insult to injury we will never see that.

oh i agree.... i would be very happy to toss every union employee in jail.....

[MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION].... so are you one of these people getting your pension yanked?

really?.....i never broke the law.....i was just some poor slob trying to support a family.....

do you work for the union?

 

[Harry Dresden]

They worked for them and deserve the pensions.

No they didn't WORK for their pension. They were hired via affirmative action and can't even read and write. These bums never did a days work in all the years they were on the job. If anything they should be forced to return all the salary they received over the years. Anyone hired via AA in effect stole the job and have no right to anything.

who the **** are you talking about?.....what workers?....Cops?....Firemen?....Paramedics?...

 

[Katzndogz]

I am saying the STATE needs to pay its obligations. I am not saying the country needs to bail out Detroit.... It is lost . this isn't a federal issue but it is a state one. things will now have to change....We are seeing the end of unions. That is the ONLY good thing about this.

the state did not make these promises..... Detroit did.

Why should the entire state have to pay for the mistakes of Detroit?

It doesn't matter it is still a state responsibility.

No it isn't. The state's responsibility is state employees. City employees are the city's responsibility. The state is not a party to the union contract between the city and the union, any more than the state is responsible to any other private employer that goes bankrupt.

 

[JoeBlam]

The unions bled the auto makers dry, now they are bleeding cities dry. Unions are leeches that eventually kill off the host.

Bullshit....the UAW got safe working condiitions, training programs so a guy on the line could learn multiple skills, and yeah, make a decent living so he could buy his own house and send his kids to college. That's how it's supposed to work in the USA. If you've never walked through the gate into an auto plant every morning for years, you have no business talking shit about the UAW.

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

And steal the wage the union guys bargained for? yeah, if you're a stinkin SCAB you can do that. And remember this; the assembly-plants (not mfg plants) the japs have here were built with taxpayer dollars, not company money. And the non-union wages there are only good as long as the UAW gets a fair wage from Detroit. UAW goes under, those boys down in Arkansas and Alabama are gonna get cut big time....

You union-haters should remember if Henry Ford hadn't ordered his Pinkertons to shoot at striking auto-workers, the unions wouldn't have had to go to the Italians for protection. That had strings attached...it's the rackets boys who are behind the dirty unions, not the workers.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The unions bled the auto makers dry, now they are bleeding cities dry. Unions are leeches that eventually kill off the host.

Bullshit....the UAW got safe working condiitions, training programs so a guy on the line could learn multiple skills, and yeah, make a decent living so he could buy his own house and send his kids to college. That's how it's supposed to work in the USA. If you've never walked through the gate into an auto plant every morning for years, you have no business talking shit about the UAW.

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

yea walked into BmW in greenville SC for a week doing a side electrical job not a union guy on site and those operators get paid a decent wage btw.

 

[Avatar4321]

We are Americans are about to learn some bitter truths. At least we will if we think about what is about to happen.

Americans are going to lose their pensions. Why? Because politicians and bureacrats lied to them. They told them "Work for us and you won't have to worry about growing old because we will support you with these pensions".

And people believed it. Why wouldn't they? Our politicians were good for it, right?

Except they were lying to get votes. They knew when this started, this wouldn't last. But they realized it would be someone elses problem to clean up. So they lied, and stole labor from people to get votes.

And the people let them. The workers let them.

Is there anyone who seriously didn't know this day was coming?

Lesson 1: Learn math.

Lesson 2: Learn how government budgets money. Learn how companies budget. Learn to budget yourself.

Lesson 3: If you want to make sure you are taken care of as you get older, you need to control your finances, not let the government or some company do it.

Lesson 4: Be active in politics and make sure you are electing good and honorable people who aren't going to lie to you. Don't elect people who make promises they won't or can't keep.

Lesson 5: If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Lesson 6: You aren't entitled to anything. Even the things you work hard for are not guarenteed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Retirees that lose their pension benefits, depending on how much they lose,

may see in many cases their incomes fall to the point where they will become eligible for all sorts of state and federal income-based help,

such as Medicaid, food stamps, housing, heat/energy assistance, etc.

So the Detroit 'problem' will become a state and federal 'problem'.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bullshit....the UAW got safe working condiitions, training programs so a guy on the line could learn multiple skills, and yeah, make a decent living so he could buy his own house and send his kids to college. That's how it's supposed to work in the USA. If you've never walked through the gate into an auto plant every morning for years, you have no business talking shit about the UAW.

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

And steal the wage the union guys bargained for? yeah, if you're a stinkin SCAB you can do that. And remember this; the assembly-plants (not mfg plants) the japs have here were built with taxpayer dollars, not company money. And the non-union wages there are only good as long as the UAW gets a fair wage from Detroit. UAW goes under, those boys down in Arkansas and Alabama are gonna get cut big time....

You union-haters should remember if Henry Ford hadn't ordered his Pinkertons to shoot at striking auto-workers, the unions wouldn't have had to go to the Italians for protection. That had strings attached...it's the rackets boys who are behind the dirty unions, not the workers.

lol how the **** do you figure those wages are tied to the UAW?

 

[JoeBlam]

Bullshit....the UAW got safe working condiitions, training programs so a guy on the line could learn multiple skills, and yeah, make a decent living so he could buy his own house and send his kids to college. That's how it's supposed to work in the USA. If you've never walked through the gate into an auto plant every morning for years, you have no business talking shit about the UAW.

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

yea walked into BmW in greenville SC for a week doing a side electrical job not a union guy on site and those operators get paid a decent wage btw.

BMW ran from their own workers to build Beemers here.....let's see if their customers will buy a US-assmebled BMW.

 

[JoeBlam]

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

And steal the wage the union guys bargained for? yeah, if you're a stinkin SCAB you can do that. And remember this; the assembly-plants (not mfg plants) the japs have here were built with taxpayer dollars, not company money. And the non-union wages there are only good as long as the UAW gets a fair wage from Detroit. UAW goes under, those boys down in Arkansas and Alabama are gonna get cut big time....

You union-haters should remember if Henry Ford hadn't ordered his Pinkertons to shoot at striking auto-workers, the unions wouldn't have had to go to the Italians for protection. That had strings attached...it's the rackets boys who are behind the dirty unions, not the workers.

lol how the **** do you figure those wages are tied to the UAW?

Because I know the **** how the game works....otherwise the unions would organize those plants in a heartbeat.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Found it...

Detroit overstaffed compared to other cities | The Detroit News

Think about that.

Twice as many employees as the VERY affluent and VERY well-run Indianapolis.

More than any other City on the Chart except for the uber-rich, VERY tourist-oriented Sang Frang.

No, I'm NOT going to feel sorry for workers losing something they were stealing in the first place

a guy was a fireman for 30 years fought fires rescued people and he is stealing money?....fascinating.....

They were not properly contribtuing into thier pension funds, and the politicans were not providing enough funding at the time to cover the future costs.

The stealing is on the part of the politican who KNEW this was going to happen 20 years down the road.

but at the same time that Fireman did what he was asked to do in good faith for 30 years....he wasnt stealing no ones money....

 

[Wyatt earp]

And steal the wage the union guys bargained for? yeah, if you're a stinkin SCAB you can do that. And remember this; the assembly-plants (not mfg plants) the japs have here were built with taxpayer dollars, not company money. And the non-union wages there are only good as long as the UAW gets a fair wage from Detroit. UAW goes under, those boys down in Arkansas and Alabama are gonna get cut big time....

You union-haters should remember if Henry Ford hadn't ordered his Pinkertons to shoot at striking auto-workers, the unions wouldn't have had to go to the Italians for protection. That had strings attached...it's the rackets boys who are behind the dirty unions, not the workers.

lol how the **** do you figure those wages are tied to the UAW?

Because I know the **** how the game works....otherwise the unions would organize those plants in a heartbeat.

your full of shit.

 

[JoeBlam]

lol how the **** do you figure those wages are tied to the UAW?

Because I know the **** how the game works....otherwise the unions would organize those plants in a heartbeat.

your full of shit.

And you're a ******* moron who can't contract the words "you" and "are"....STFU

 

[Wyatt earp]

can you walk into an auto and work..... and NOT be a paying union member?

yea walked into BmW in greenville SC for a week doing a side electrical job not a union guy on site and those operators get paid a decent wage btw.

BMW ran from their own workers to build Beemers here.....let's see if their customers will buy a US-assmebled BMW.

Bmw is always expanding.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

oh i agree.... i would be very happy to toss every union employee in jail.....

[MENTION=18909]thanatos144[/MENTION].... so are you one of these people getting your pension yanked?

really?.....i never broke the law.....i was just some poor slob trying to support a family.....

do you work for the union?

oh ok i see what you are saying.........but i do know 2-3 people who do work for the Union whose job it is, is to help those whose families are affected by disaster or some disease.....they are not ripping anyone off....

 

[Wyatt earp]

Because I know the **** how the game works....otherwise the unions would organize those plants in a heartbeat.

your full of shit.

And you're a ******* moron who can't contract the words "you" and "are"....STFU

and why? does it make you feel special that you can? So guru how the **** is the UAW going to orgainize in a RTW state?

 

[martybegan]

a guy was a fireman for 30 years fought fires rescued people and he is stealing money?....fascinating.....

They were not properly contribtuing into thier pension funds, and the politicans were not providing enough funding at the time to cover the future costs.

The stealing is on the part of the politican who KNEW this was going to happen 20 years down the road.

but at the same time that Fireman did what he was asked to do in good faith for 30 years....he wasnt stealing no ones money....

The beneficiary of a crime, even if blameless, is still benefiting from a crime. This isnt exactly a crime, but it was a scam, a scam whos end result is finally here.

Said fireman also voted in those union leaders, and also those politicans supported by the union leaders. Ignorance of economics does not result in blamelessness.