Should Congress Build the Fence per Law?

[Redfish]

That changes nothing. I don't want my tax dollars thrown away just to make you feel good.

how is it wasting money to enforce our borders?

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

 

[bripat9643]

That changes nothing. I don't want my tax dollars thrown away just to make you feel good.

how is it wasting money to enforce our borders?

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

Libturds are always opposed to stuff that they know will work.

 

[PratchettFan]

how is it wasting money to enforce our borders?

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

 

[RKMBrown]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

No. Building a berlin wall in the middle of no where is the dumbest thing we've ever talked about wasting tax payer money on. The fence will not even slow down the illegals. If anything the fence will result less illegals getting caught and more coming over. They have boats and planes in other countries too. We gonna put up a fence all along the coast lines as well? We gonna escort every plane that crosses our border? Everywhere we have built a fence they have dug tunnels. This is the dumbest idea people have ever had. The only way to secure the border is to put troops on it. The only way to stop, err put a dent in, illegal immigration is to prosecute them, the folks that hire them, and the folks that shelter them, and the folks that give them federal, state, and local welfare.

 

[RKMBrown]

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

You left out our sea shore and Canada, not to mention our islands, territories, and legal means for entering such as overstaying a travel or work visa.

 

[bripat9643]

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

Simple, but a guard tower ever 1/4 mile. You can also patrol it with predator drones and mount cameras on it. It's really not that hard.

Libs want to whine like petulant little children because they know it will work.

 

[bripat9643]

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

You left out our sea shore and Canada, not to mention our islands, territories, and legal means for entering such as overstaying a travel or work visa.

How much illegal immigration do we have coming through the Canadian border? How about through Puerto Rico? Guam?

 

[bripat9643]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

No. Building a berlin wall in the middle of no where is the dumbest thing we've ever talked about wasting tax payer money on. The fence will not even slow down the illegals. If anything the fence will result less illegals getting caught and more coming over. They have boats and planes in other countries too. We gonna put up a fence all along the coast lines as well? We gonna escort every plane that crosses our border? Everywhere we have built a fence they have dug tunnels. This is the dumbest idea people have ever had. The only way to secure the border is to put troops on it. The only way to stop, err put a dent in, illegal immigration is to prosecute them, the folks that hire them, and the folks that shelter them, and the folks that give them federal, state, and local welfare.

Tunnels are easy to detect with microphones. Furthermore, they only work if they are built in the city. That's a very small proportion of the border. Every boat and plane can be observed on radar. There's no way mass immigration could come that way. Furthermore, boats and planes are expensive, and we're talking about poor Mexican peasants.

 

[RKMBrown]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

-Geaux

No. Building a berlin wall in the middle of no where is the dumbest thing we've ever talked about wasting tax payer money on. The fence will not even slow down the illegals. If anything the fence will result less illegals getting caught and more coming over. They have boats and planes in other countries too. We gonna put up a fence all along the coast lines as well? We gonna escort every plane that crosses our border? Everywhere we have built a fence they have dug tunnels. This is the dumbest idea people have ever had. The only way to secure the border is to put troops on it. The only way to stop, err put a dent in, illegal immigration is to prosecute them, the folks that hire them, and the folks that shelter them, and the folks that give them federal, state, and local welfare.

Tunnels are easy to detect with microphones. Furthermore, they only work if they are built in the city. That's a very small proportion of the border. Every boat and plane can be observed on radar. There's no way mass immigration could come that way. Furthermore, boats and planes are expensive, and we're talking about poor Mexican peasants.

>>> Every boat and plane can be observed on radar.
So? Every person coming across the border can be observed via infrared as well.

>>> There's no way mass immigration could come that way.
HUH? On what planet do you live on that you think immigration can not occur in vast numbers by both air and sea?

>>> Furthermore, boats and planes are expensive
Huh? You might want to look up the price of a used boat again there's probably not a boat sold that could not be paid for in few coyote runs. Some boats could be paid for with just one person being trafficked across.

Microphones are easy to circumvent. Tunnels work wherever they are built. I have no idea why you think a city is required to dig a hole in the ground. Those "poor" Mexican peasants don't seem to have a problem coming up with the money to get the coyotes to bring them over.

 

[Darkwind]

Just like the stupid gun laws that exist on the books and don't work, so to goes immigration. Build the dam fence already.

With Senate Vote, Congress Passes Border Fence Bill

Enforcement first, then deal with those here.

What say you

Didn't work for the E.Germans.

Wow, really?

The East Germans were trying to keep people IN. And it worked pretty damned effectively for nearly 50 years. What brought down that wall and opened the flood gates was not the people trying to get out.

 

[bripat9643]

>>> Every boat and plane can be observed on radar.
So? Every person coming across the border can be observed via infrared as well.

People are much easier to find when they are stopped at a fence. One radar can cover hundreds of square miles of airspace. An infrared camera can only see for a few miles.

>>> There's no way mass immigration could come that way.
HUH? On what planet do you live on that you think immigration can not occur in vast numbers by both air and sea?

Not when the Coast Guard is in the way. It's sure as hell of a lot more difficult than simply walking across the border.

>>> Furthermore, boats and planes are expensive
Huh? You might want to look up the price of a used boat again there's probably not a boat sold that could not be paid for in few coyote runs. Some boats could be paid for with just one person being trafficked across.

A friend of mine just bought a used 14 ft boat for about $14,000. I wouldn't even think about attempting an ocean crossing in that boat. How many Mexican peasants can afford to pay $14,000? A boat actually capable of making the crossing would cost more like $100,000. And, of course, it's easy for the Coast Guard to spot boats on radar.

Microphones are easy to circumvent.

Really? How?

Tunnels work wherever they are built. I have no idea why you think a city is required to dig a hole in the ground.

Then why are they only built in cities? The exits are easy to find when they come up in the middle of the desert. City noise will mask the sound of digging and people moving through the tunnel. That doesn't work in the middle of the desert.

Those "poor" Mexican peasants don't seem to have a problem coming up with the money to get the coyotes to bring them over.

They don't have to come up with near as much money when the Coyote packs 50 of them into the back of a moving van.

 

[RKMBrown]

>>> Every boat and plane can be observed on radar.
So? Every person coming across the border can be observed via infrared as well.

People are much easier to find when they are stopped at a fence. One radar can cover hundreds of square miles of airspace. An infrared camera can only see for a few miles.

>>> There's no way mass immigration could come that way.
HUH? On what planet do you live on that you think immigration can not occur in vast numbers by both air and sea?

Not when the Coast Guard is in the way. It's sure as hell of a lot more difficult than simply walking across the border.



A friend of mine just bought a used 14 ft boat for about $14,000. I wouldn't even think about attempting an ocean crossing in that boat. How many Mexican peasants can afford to pay $14,000? A boat actually capable of making the crossing would cost more like $100,000. And, of course, it's easy for the Coast Guard to spot boats on radar.



Really? How?

Tunnels work wherever they are built. I have no idea why you think a city is required to dig a hole in the ground.

Then why are they only built in cities? The exits are easy to find when they come up in the middle of the desert. City noise will mask the sound of digging and people moving through the tunnel. That doesn't work in the middle of the desert.

Those "poor" Mexican peasants don't seem to have a problem coming up with the money to get the coyotes to bring them over.

They don't have to come up with near as much money when the Coyote packs 50 of them into the back of a moving van.

>>> People are much easier to find when they are stopped at a fence. One radar can cover hundreds of square miles of airspace. An infrared camera can only see for a few miles.

Infrared cameras are a dime a dozen.. again a moot point. When you see them crossing you have to be willing to interdict.

>>> Not when the Coast Guard is in the way. It's sure as hell of a lot more difficult than simply walking across the border.

I used to live in south florida the coast guard is completely ineffective in stopping illegal immigration via water bound craft.

>>> A friend of mine just bought a used 14 ft boat for about $14,000. I wouldn't even think about attempting an ocean crossing in that boat. How many Mexican peasants can afford to pay $14,000? A boat actually capable of making the crossing would cost more like $100,000. And, of course, it's easy for the Coast Guard to spot boats on radar.

Crossing? You act like they will have to circumnavigate the globe. All that is required is a 20'+ fishing boat to navigate the gulf of Mexico or to go around to the east coast of florida through the keys. For the pacific you might want a 23' boat. Look up the prices for used fishing boats between 20' and 25' you are probably looking at a 15-25k investment in a boat that can plane/cruise at 20 and go 40-50 knots when needed. My 20' fishing boat can easily hold 10-12 people in comfort on a run across the gulf of mexico. 10 people x 2k one trip buys the boat.

>>>> how do you circumvent a microphone
1) cut the line
2) distractions
...

>>> Then why are they only built in cities? The exits are easy to find when they come up in the middle of the desert. City noise will mask the sound of digging and people moving through the tunnel. That doesn't work in the middle of the desert.
Yes it does work in the desert. They are not just built in cities. They are also built in the wilderness to avoid detection for the distance. Look it up.

I do agree we can effect the coyotes profit margin if we build layers upon layers of fences, radar nets, and such. But I fail so see how us going broke to build some colossal border fence is going to help this nation one bit. People adapt. Fences don't adapt. They are fixed things to be circumvented.

 

[tjvh]

And I don't want my tax dollars thrown away on yet another pointless project to make people feel good.

I'd rather my Tax dollars fund a finite amount for a fence than an infinite amount for Welfare and Food Stamps to people who aren't even U.S. citizens.

That changes nothing. I don't want my tax dollars thrown away just to make you feel good.

Yup... Upholding immigration Law does make me feel good.

 

[Redfish]

Because it won't work. It is always a waste of money when you spend it on things that won't work.

How do you know it won't work. Fences keep criminals in prison.

It will only work if the govt allows it to work. If the dems want to keep buying votes by letting illegals in and setting them up as fraudulent voters, then you are correct.

A fence works in a prison because there are armed guards placed in such a manner that they can see every part of the fence at all times. You are talking about a fence almost 2,000 miles long - most of it in some extremely isolated terrain. How do you propose seeing every part of it at all times?

electrify it. cover it with concertina wire. Don't be stupid. A real fence would work

worried about tunnels? drive pilings 20 feet into the ground. This is not rocket science.

 

[bripat9643]

>>> People are much easier to find when they are stopped at a fence. One radar can cover hundreds of square miles of airspace. An infrared camera can only see for a few miles.

Infrared cameras are a dime a dozen.. again a moot point. When you see them crossing you have to be willing to interdict.

The cameras may be cheap, but they are useless unless there is a set of eyeballs looking at them. Each set of eyeballs will cost the taxpayers $50-$100K annually. It would take thousands of cameras to cover the same territory that one radar mounted in an a blimp can cover.

Furthermore, a fence provides a convenient place to mount cameras.

>>> Not when the Coast Guard is in the way. It's sure as hell of a lot more difficult than simply walking across the border.

I used to live in south florida the coast guard is completely ineffective in stopping illegal immigration via water bound craft.

I live in South Florida right now, and there are no stories in the news about massive illegal immigration via waterborne craft. For a while there was an attempt by larger numbers of Haitians trying to invade, but the Coast Guard intercepted the vast majority of those.

>>> A friend of mine just bought a used 14 ft boat for about $14,000. I wouldn't even think about attempting an ocean crossing in that boat. How many Mexican peasants can afford to pay $14,000? A boat actually capable of making the crossing would cost more like $100,000. And, of course, it's easy for the Coast Guard to spot boats on radar.

Crossing? You act like they will have to circumnavigate the globe. All that is required is a 20'+ fishing boat to navigate the gulf of Mexico or to go around to the east coast of florida through the keys.

For the pacific you might want a 23' boat. Look up the prices for used fishing boats between 20' and 25' you are probably looking at a 15-25k investment in a boat that can plane/cruise at 20 and go 40-50 knots when needed. My 20' fishing boat can easily hold 10-12 people in comfort on a run across the gulf of mexico. 10 people x 2k one trip buys the boat.

"Go around to the east coast of Florida" from where? The two main sources if waterborne immigration into Florida are from Cuba and Haiti. Anyone from the former is automatically granted asylum due to Cold War political considerations, and most of the people from the later were intercepted and sent back from where they came.

apparently you are thinking they can take a boat from Mexico near the Texas boarder and land just inside the Texas boarder, but, or course, that area of ocean is heavily patrolled by the Coast Guard. Any successful trip is going to have to originate far from the Texas boarder and probably involve hundreds of miles of ocean travel. I wouldn't want to be caught in any kind of bad weather in a 20' fishing boat, and that's highly likely on any kind of longer voyage.

>>>> how do you circumvent a microphone
1) cut the line
2) distractions
...

The lines are inside the boarder, so you would have to have already crossed successfully to cut the line. "Distractions" would simply alert the people manning the fence that something is going on.

>>> Then why are they only built in cities? The exits are easy to find when they come up in the middle of the desert. City noise will mask the sound of digging and people moving through the tunnel. That doesn't work in the middle of the desert.
Yes it does work in the desert. They are not just built in cities. They are also built in the wilderness to avoid detection for the distance. Look it up.

All the ones I've heard about are built in places like El Paso and come up in a building in the middle of the city.

If they come up within half a mile of the fence, the men manning the fence are going to notice people appearing out of nowhere in the middle of the desert.

I do agree we can effect the coyotes profit margin if we build layers upon layers of fences, radar nets, and such. But I fail so see how us going broke to build some colossal border fence is going to help this nation one bit. People adapt. Fences don't adapt. They are fixed things to be circumvented.

The fact is the Israelis have built such a wall to keep Palestinian suicide bombers out of Israel, and it has been highly effective.

The empirical evidence doesn't support your claims.

 

[RKMBrown]

>>> People are much easier to find when they are stopped at a fence. One radar can cover hundreds of square miles of airspace. An infrared camera can only see for a few miles.

Infrared cameras are a dime a dozen.. again a moot point. When you see them crossing you have to be willing to interdict.

The cameras may be cheap, but they are useless unless there is a set of eyeballs looking at them. Each set of eyeballs will cost the taxpayers $50-$100K annually. It would take thousands of cameras to cover the same territory that one radar mounted in an a blimp can cover.

Furthermore, a fence provides a convenient place to mount cameras.

>>> Not when the Coast Guard is in the way. It's sure as hell of a lot more difficult than simply walking across the border.

I used to live in south florida the coast guard is completely ineffective in stopping illegal immigration via water bound craft.

I live in South Florida right now, and there are no stories in the news about massive illegal immigration via waterborne craft. For a while there was an attempt by larger numbers of Haitians trying to invade, but the Coast Guard intercepted the vast majority of those.



"Go around to the east coast of Florida" from where? The two main sources if waterborne immigration into Florida are from Cuba and Haiti. Anyone from the former is automatically granted asylum due to Cold War political considerations, and most of the people from the later were intercepted and sent back from where they came.

apparently you are thinking they can take a boat from Mexico near the Texas boarder and land just inside the Texas boarder, but, or course, that area of ocean is heavily patrolled by the Coast Guard. Any successful trip is going to have to originate far from the Texas boarder and probably involve hundreds of miles of ocean travel. I wouldn't want to be caught in any kind of bad weather in a 20' fishing boat, and that's highly likely on any kind of longer voyage.

>>>> how do you circumvent a microphone
1) cut the line
2) distractions
...

The lines are inside the boarder, so you would have to have already crossed successfully to cut the line. "Distractions" would simply alert the people manning the fence that something is going on.

>>> Then why are they only built in cities? The exits are easy to find when they come up in the middle of the desert. City noise will mask the sound of digging and people moving through the tunnel. That doesn't work in the middle of the desert.
Yes it does work in the desert. They are not just built in cities. They are also built in the wilderness to avoid detection for the distance. Look it up.

All the ones I've heard about are built in places like El Paso and come up in a building in the middle of the city.

If they come up within half a mile of the fence, the men manning the fence are going to notice people appearing out of nowhere in the middle of the desert.

I do agree we can effect the coyotes profit margin if we build layers upon layers of fences, radar nets, and such. But I fail so see how us going broke to build some colossal border fence is going to help this nation one bit. People adapt. Fences don't adapt. They are fixed things to be circumvented.

The fact is the Israelis have built such a wall to keep Palestinian suicide bombers out of Israel, and it has been highly effective.

The empirical evidence doesn't support your claims.

The Israelis man their fence. Their fence is tiny in comparison to what we would have to build. They used our tax dollars to build their fence.

Have you seen these things? Do you want to put a man 24/7 every 75' along the fence? Is that what you want our border to look like? A monstrous fence with armed guards and barbed wire? You want to flatten every hill, drain every creek bed, turn every tree and bush along the border into barbed wire? This is friggin nutz.

FYI if they can boat drugs in they can boat people in.

 

[bripat9643]

The Israelis man their fence. Their fence is tiny in comparison to what we would have to build. They used our tax dollars to build their fence.

OF course the fence would have to be manned. Only an idiot would think an unmanned fence would work. We already have thousands of men patrolling the boarder. A fence multiplies the effectiveness of every man on the boarder by several fold.

The Israeli fence may be tiny, but Israel is a tiny country compared to the United States. If they can afford it, we can afford it. In proportion to the size of the country, their fence is massive.

Have you seen these things? Do you want to put a man 24/7 every 75' along the fence? Is that what you want our border to look like? A monstrous fence with armed guards and barbed wire? You want to flatten every hill, drain every creek bed, turn every tree and bush along the border into barbed wire? This is friggin nutz.

It doesn't need guard towers every 75'. Every couple of miles would probably be sufficient with cameras mounted every 1/8 mile. Each tower could monitor 16 cameras.

We also wouldn't need to flatten every hill, drain every creek bed and turn every tree and bush along the boarder into barbed wire. That's absurd.

FYI if they can boat drugs in they can boat people in.

In case you haven't been reading the papers lately, the drug dealers have resorted to using submarines to get their merchandise into the country. That should indicate to you that it isn't that easy to smuggle anything into the country by water. Furthermore, drugs are small and compact compared to people. How many drug boats do you imagine manage to land on our shores without being detected, a few hundred a year? That would be a small fraction of the number need to smuggle the number of Mexicans that come across out boarder each year.

 

[RKMBrown]

It doesn't need guard towers every 75'. Every couple of miles would probably be sufficient with cameras mounted every 1/8 mile. Each tower could monitor 16 cameras.

We also wouldn't need to flatten every hill, drain every creek bed and turn every tree and bush along the boarder into barbed wire. That's absurd.

I'm gonna guess you have not been to the border? It's not all flat plain & desert sand.

 

[RKMBrown]

 

[RKMBrown]