Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[dblack]

Places of worship get a pass. Businesses are not places of worship. Next.

Wow, really? Does that go for all laws? Or are we just picking and choosing for convenience sake?

Are you suggesting we should remove the protected and tax-exempt status of churches and force them to perform gay weddings?

Yep. Anything less amounts to offering special privileges to government-approved religions, which is a direct violation of the First Amendment.

Okay crazy person. Good luck with that.

Easier than thinking about it. I get it.

 

[Anathema]

Nobody should be forced to associate with anyone they don't want to. No church. No business. No private educational institution. No individual.

 

[Bleipriester]

This would violate the freedom of religion.

I agree. If government approved churches were exempted from the law, it would be a blatant violation of the First Amendment.

Perhaps, they can establish their own religion. Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No, churches should not be forced to perform gay marriages if they are against them.

Why?

There are plenty of other churches who will be more than happy to marry them (and get the fee for the wedding).

Should bakers be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings if they are against them? Why should churches get a pass? If you think that's how the First Amendment should be applied, do you see the problems that introduces? Should churches that believe in human sacrifice get to skip the laws against murder?

Hyperbole much?

And, like I said...............there are plenty of churches who actually have gay ministers and pastors (some of them are even female), I can think of a couple of Episcopalian churches that made the news a couple of years ago over this, and I'm pretty sure they would love to participate in a gay wedding.

BTW dblack..............care to share what churches currently endorse human sacrifice in the United States?

And................fwiw.....................churches have different rules than businesses do, due to their tax exempt and non profit status.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I'm not interested in the current legal status quo. The operative word here is "should". How do you YOU think the Court should interpret the Constitution. If we're going to have laws forcing merchants or services providers to serve protected classes, why should Churches get a pass? Is the purpose of the First Amendment to give religions special exemptions from laws the rest of us must follow?

Under current law here is where the line is drawn.

1. No, the church cannot be compelled to provide a wedding service for a gay marriage because that would violate the 1st Amendment.

2. If the same church was in the business of renting out their facilities to the public for birthdays, weddings, parties, anniversaries, etc then they would be violating PA laws by refusing to rent it out for a gay wedding.​

That is current law and as it stands I believe that is sufficient for now.

In the future I foresee that many churches will come around to conducting gay weddings and it will be a non-issue for them.

For those churches that don't they will get out of the business of renting out their facilities to the public.

Finally the world won't come to end because gays can now get legally married.

Much ado about nothing.

Next?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I'm not interested in the current legal status quo. The operative word here is "should". How do you YOU think the Court should interpret the Constitution. If we're going to have laws forcing merchants or services providers to serve protected classes, why should Churches get a pass? Is the purpose of the First Amendment to give religions special exemptions from laws the rest of us must follow?

Under current law here is where the line is drawn.

1. No, the church cannot be compelled to provide a wedding service for a gay marriage because that would violate the 1st Amendment.

2. If the same church was in the business of renting out their facilities to the public for birthdays, weddings, parties, anniversaries, etc then they would be violating PA laws by refusing to rent it out for a gay wedding.​

That is current law and as it stands I believe that is sufficient for now.

In the future I foresee that many churches will come around to conducting gay weddings and it will be a non-issue for them.

For those churches that don't they will get out of the business of renting out their facilities to the public.

Finally the world won't come to end because gays can now get legally married.

Much ado about nothing.

Next?

Not so fast, the church can ensure that the party they are renting the facility out to is consistent with that particular church's religious faith and mission and they have every right to do so. The moment the homos push this issue the fur will fly, bank it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

dblack put up one of his libertarian screeds on this last week.

Libertarianism is the flip side of communism: neither are American and neither respect the Constitution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not so fast, the church can ensure that the party they are renting the facility out to is consistent with that particular church's religious faith and mission and they have every right to do so. The moment the homos push this issue the fur will fly, bank it.

If the state has strong PA law, that will not fly - if it is a marriage hall for profit business, then all have access to it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

 

[daws101]

Places of worship get a pass. Businesses are not places of worship. Next.

Wow, really? Does that go for all laws? Or are we just picking and choosing for convenience sake?

Are you suggesting we should remove the protected and tax-exempt status of churches and force them to perform gay weddings?

No matter what churches claim they are businesses and should be taxed.
Nowhere in the bible does god say thou shall not pay taxes.
It does say rendered unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.

 

[daws101]

This would violate the freedom of religion.

I agree. If government approved churches were exempted from the law, it would be a blatant violation of the First Amendment.

Perhaps, they can establish their own religion. Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible.

Absolute bullshit.

 

[PratchettFan]

I'm not interested in the current legal status quo. The operative word here is "should". How do you YOU think the Court should interpret the Constitution. If we're going to have laws forcing merchants or services providers to serve protected classes, why should Churches get a pass? Is the purpose of the First Amendment to give religions special exemptions from laws the rest of us must follow?

No.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

Assumes facts not in evidence

 

[daws101]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

Extremists already keep them from marring.
so WTF are you yammering about?

 

[PratchettFan]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

No, it isn't. It's not going to happen. And even if some people were silly enough to scream for it, screaming is all that is going to happen. The courts won't go for it. Churches are not businesses open to the general public. They are, in essence, private clubs.

 

[Ernie S.]

Places of worship get a pass. Businesses are not places of worship. Next.

Wow, really? Does that go for all laws? Or are we just picking and choosing for convenience sake?

Are you suggesting we should remove the protected and tax-exempt status of churches and force them to perform gay weddings?

Yep. Anything less amounts to offering special privileges to government-approved religions, which is a direct violation of the First Amendment.

The first amendment is very clear. First the government cannot establish a state religion. Secondly, they cannot enact any legislation that denies anyone the right to freely exercise their religious beliefs.

Government should remain silent on matters of religion.

 

[daws101]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

No, it isn't. It's not going to happen. And even if some people were silly enough to scream for it, screaming is all that is going to happen. The courts won't go for it. Churches are not businesses open to the general public. They are, in essence, private clubs.

If that's true then they should stop saying everyone is welcome.
It implies it's public.

 

[PratchettFan]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

No, it isn't. It's not going to happen. And even if some people were silly enough to scream for it, screaming is all that is going to happen. The courts won't go for it. Churches are not businesses open to the general public. They are, in essence, private clubs.

If that's true then they should stop saying everyone is welcome.
It implies it's public.

If you want to receive communion in a Catholic church, you have to be a Catholic. If you want to be baptized in a Lutheran church, you have to be a Lutheran. Sure, you can come in and watch, but to really take part you have to join.

 

[Bleipriester]

This would violate the freedom of religion.

I agree. If government approved churches were exempted from the law, it would be a blatant violation of the First Amendment.

Perhaps, they can establish their own religion. Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible.

Absolute bullshit.

Why?

 

[daws101]

It is only a matter of time before the extremist left starts screaming for the state to force churches to perform marriages for same-sex couples.
Hopefully, those moderates on the left will stand up and disagree.

No, it isn't. It's not going to happen. And even if some people were silly enough to scream for it, screaming is all that is going to happen. The courts won't go for it. Churches are not businesses open to the general public. They are, in essence, private clubs.

If that's true then they should stop saying everyone is welcome.
It implies it's public.

If you want to receive communion in a Catholic church, you have to be a Catholic. If you want to be baptized in a Lutheran church, you have to be a Lutheran. Sure, you can come in and watch, but to really take part you have to join.

Really I've taken communion on several occasions and I'm an atheist.